1. "Masterton to speak"
Posted by harry on Jul-8th-03 at 8:36 PM

Fall River begins it bicentennial celebration tomorrow, Wednesday, the 9th.  Hopefully the city will make some moves to protect its dwindling heritage besides just talking about it.

The Herald News has an article listing the schedule of events.

Masterton will speak on August 6th.

http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=9415659&BRD=1710&PAG=461&dept_id=99784&rfi=6

(Message last edited Jul-8th-03  8:39 PM.)

Thanks Har!
I guess Joyce Williams couldn't make it.
That's a shame.
I hope she is all right.
Masterton should be very interesting.

The gala sounds wonderful and I can't believe the lectures are free!
Maybe if they had charged a little bit they could have funded a Preservation Society start-up.

I would l-o-v-e to hear Masterton speak.  IMHO, he's the most fun to read of all the Borden authors, no matter what you think of his theory, and I'll bet he'd be an equally entertaining speaker.

I agree, Edisto.  And thinking about it, I think he is the most entertaining to read of the Lizzie books.  I need to skim thru his book to see if there's any questions I want to ask (I'll be there for the lecture).  I want to look up that boy he said went to the Borden's door.  Wasn't that boy dead at the time?  They had a little boy named George who died as a child ...
It seems like I did hear something about Joyce Williams' health.  But I can't remember what it was or where I read it. 
Gee, this was an informative post ...  

Darn it, I'm just on my way out for the day -- but, Augusta, I had to ask why do you think George Whitehead died as a child?  I'm not debating it or anything .. it's just new information for me.  I just skimmed Hoffman and he lists George's birth and a question mark for his death date.  Rebello, page 23, also just has George's birthdate-- March 1887.

I'm glad to see some others enjoy Masterton as much as I do.  I've tried unsuccessfully to persuade one particular member of the forum (who shall be nameless .. but you know who you are!) to read him.  I definitely enjoy the way he presents his theory and would love to hear him speak! 

Diana - I think I came across that recently in something I was reading the other day.  I will try to remember it and post it here.  Unless I was thinking of a child Lurana and Hiram Harrington had that died as a child. 

Ah, here it is.  I was thinking of George Borden Harrington, the only child of Andrew's sister, Lurana and her husband.  He died at the age of 9 from "brain disease".  (Source:  Rebello, pages 3 & 4.) I got the "George"'s mixed up. 

Now, who was the boy Masterton said went to the Borden house with the note that morning?  Most of my Lizzie books are real hard to get to right now.  I have tons of boxes in the way. 

I didn't like Masterton's theory.  I thought he was really reaching when he had Abby making an apple pie and sitting in that house eating the thing.  But if you look at the sample of stomach contents at the FRHS, it does look like a red fruit skin, like an apple.  Unless it was a pear skin that turned dark with age. 

There was no mention of apples being at the breakfast table that morning.  But that didn't mean there weren't.  I think Bridget and Morse disagreed whether there were bananas there or not. 

I think Masterton's book is a real treat to read.  He was funny and made the book entertaining.  Also it's the first time I remember anyone seriously considering there really being a note.  And his explanation for that note does make good sense.  But he lost me when did the "Abby Eating Pie" scene. 

And why wouldn't Abby's half-sister have come forward as the note writer?  She wasn't afraid to get an attorney and go after her Abby's share of her estate.  

Hey, it'd be great if they taped Masterton's lecture and sold the videos.  Then nobody would miss it. 

Stef told me that Joyce Williams had knee surgery recently and was recuperating.
This is not an exact quote...and I'm not 100% positive, but I'm sure we all send her our best thoughts for a complete recovery!

(Message last edited Jul-31st-03  2:45 AM.)

I too thought first of George Harrington.
I wonder what happened to the Whitehead brother...maybe 'lil Abby talked about him later...maybe it is in the LBQ.

(Message last edited Jul-31st-03  2:46 AM.)

Masterton suggests that it was Sarah Whitehead's little boy, George, who brought the note to Abby.  He says that Abby was scheduled to look after Sarah's daughter, little Abby, and another aunt was to take George for the day while Sarah went to the police picnic at Rocky Point.  Then Sarah changed her mind (perhaps knowing Abby had been ill) and decided to send both children to the other aunt and sent George with a note to tell Abby.

Masterton uses an interview Robert Sullivan, author of Goodbye Lizzie Borden, had with Abby Whitehead Potter to give some substance to this supposition.  It seems that Abby Whitehead Potter told Sullivan in an interview that her mother changed her mind about sending her to the Bordens at the last moment and that little Abby had always regretted the change in plans.  She wondered if the murders might not have happened if she'd been in the way.

Masterton presents a nicely crafted scenario of how Lizzie was only half listening to Abby about the note and heard some key words such as "visit" and "sick" and put her own interpretation on it.

And as to why no one came forward to claim the note, Masterton settles on the premise that Sarah had a "dislike, bordering on hatred" for Lizzie and Emma.  She told Officers Doherty and Harrington that Emma and Lizzie were so unhappy about the Fourth Street property dealings involving her and their father that "they showed their feelings on the streeet by not recognizing me". 

Then, at the Inquest, Sarah is asked whether she was on friendly terms with Lizzie and Emma and she replies: "No. I always thought they felt above me."  And when she is asked "Were you not on good terms with your half sister?" -- she replies: "Very good, more so, than anybody in the world." When Sarah's mother Jane Gray is interviewed by the police, she lets them know the girls were unpleasant to Sarah's beloved Abby.

Sarah's feelings of animosity must have been passed down.  Abby Whitehead Potter credits her mother with telling her the story about Lizzie chopping off the cat's head.

I guess there's a possiblity that strong emotions colored Sarah's actions to the point that she would not assist in Lizzie's defense.

Good afternoon, I am just getting into this (Lizzie Borden) subject after I bought the book that William Masterton wrote "Lizzie Didn't Do It!" at a yardsale in Pawtucket about two months ago.  In the book stuck between the pages was a piece of paper with this Arborwood Forum address on it.  I guess the previous ower must have been a forum member, not clue who owned the book before me.  But I am about half way through it and after looking over this forum site I think I might get deeper into the topic.  I do like history and my parents have heard all the stories about the famous Lizzie Borden.  I was glad to read in this room that Mr. Masterton will be speaking at Fall River next month, I plan to attend.  Well thats all I have to say now, but I would like to add my thoughts as time goes by. 

Mike

Welcome Mike!  Enjoy the Masterton talk and let us know what you thought of it.  There is tons of information on the crime at the Virtual Library and archives.  Enjoy!

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/

Being a Bosox fan doesn't hurt you with this writer and at least one other member.  I go back to Ted Williams, Dom Dimaggio, etc.  Although I don't follow babseball that closely anymore I still have fond memories even though we managed to lose to those dreaded Yankees every year.

Welcome to the forum, Mike! I'm an A's fan myself.

Thanks Diana!

This is for you:

Georgie Whithead was only 4 1/2 years old to take a note to the Borden house.
Why not send the older 'lil' Abby.
I wonder if Masterton considered the boys age or wondered if people sent such babies out with notes.

(Message last edited Aug-1st-03  4:36 AM.)

Welcome to the Forum

Red Sox has been my one and only team.



(Message last edited Aug-1st-03  4:35 AM.)

Excellent point,Kat.  People don't send four year old boys to deliver messages.  Why do you think Masterton failed to take this information into consideration when he formulated his theory?  Pretty shabby research.
B.

I thought about George's age, too.  Masterton did know how old he was and mentions that he was five years old -- which would be right if George's d.o.b. was March 1887 (Rebello,23). 

Masterton cites Porter's 1893 book as one source for his thoughts on the Whitehead boy delivering the note:
"While in the upper part of the house she was approached by Assistant Marshal John Fleet who made numerous inquiries concerning the condition of things in the house previous to the murders. She told him as she had told others, that Mrs. Borden had received a note delivered by a boy, early in the morning, asking her to come and visit a friend who was sick. She did not know who sent the message nor who delivered it, except that the bearer was a small boy." (Porter, 11)[emphasis mine]

(I concede that there is nothing in the material we have of Fleet's to corroborate this. So it's hard to know what Porter's source for that statement was.)

Masterton also refers to an article in the Fall River Globe, August 16, 1892 -- which said: "'A report was circulated last night to the effect that a woman on Fourth Street had sent a note to Mrs. Borden on the morning of the murders.' Sarah Whitehead lived at 45 Fourth Street." (Masterton, 186)

How far was it between the Whitehead and the Borden houses? Sarah was on 45 Fourth Street according to Masterton.  You're the expert, there, Kat. 

I agree that George does seem young to go more than a few blocks. But I wouldn't refer to a child of that age as a "baby". I've certainly worked with five year old boys who would be capable of doing that. And as far as sending eight year old Abby -- maybe she was fussing about what she would take to the aunt's -- perhaps a little girl didn't wander around quite as freely in those days, etc.?

This is all speculative, of course.     

Well, it is at least two full blocks away, and depending on where #45 is in relatin to #92, it might be quite far.

Both arguments, for and against a 4-5 year old child delivering a note, seem reasonable to me. I guess that is what makes this case so enegmatic.

Didn't people grow up faster (or mature) in those days? I think it was possible that young George COULD have been sent, but not really.
Because if this did happen, Abby Borden Whitehead Potter would have mentioned it to Judge Robert Sullivan. She didn't, so it never happened.
We do know that young Abby was to have spent the day at the Borden home that Thursday. Something happened to cancel this. My deduction is that Andy overruled this, since he was to have a confidential visit from Wm S Borden. (The logical conclusion from the known facts.)

(Message last edited Aug-1st-03  4:39 PM.)

I think if 8-year old Abby B Whitehead had been visiting, there would've been a third victim. She's lucky to survive long enough to talk to R Sullivan about this event. (Did she talk to either Pearson or Radin?)

AR Brown says the note was sent to draw Abby away. Those who sent it were warned they could be liable as accessories. But if they all kept their mouths shut, they would be rewarded. That sounds right to me.

Would an assumed religious person keep quiet under these conditions? I don't think so. But were the Whiteheads that religious? Those who have family feuds can judge the likelihood of this happening.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Wiliam, but when it comes to math you had better check me.
I counted that out 3 times and I was wrong 3 times!  Jeesh!
87-88=1
88-89=2
89-90=3
90-91=4
March 91 - March 92 = 5, add 5 months til August and now I have a 5 1/2 year old boy, which does make a difference.  Not too much to me tho, in the case of a note carried a couple of blocks.  It's just not something I can picture.  Maybe after school-age, tho, 7 maybe.  (4 1/2 to me is a *baby* but 5.5 isn't)
(BTW:  Good post, Diana!)

I remember tho something, also, about a *boy*.  I thought it was Bridget saying she didn't know of any boy bringing a note, and it was like she was assuming if a note had come it would have been by a boy.
I can't find it tho, and it's not one of those throw-away important lines from closing arguments of the defense either, in the Prelim (from Porter) or the Trial.
I'll keep looking...this is one of those things

I cannot find that reference. It's not in the Nellie McHenry *interview* with Bridget in the Knowlton Papers.
Not in the Evening Standard, including the Trickey-McHenry articles.
Not in Bridget's Prelim., or Trial testimony nor is it in opening or closing arguments.
Not in the Witness Statements.

The Evening Standard mentions messenger boys from all over town, but I'm lookingfor a Bridget-"boy" reference, specifically.
Hmmm... It must be in Bridget's Inquest testimony, which I seem to have misplaced...

The January 2002 issue of the LBQ contains a very interesting and factual article by Leonard Rebello where he accepted a challenge from Bill Pavao to document the location of 45 Fourth St.  He and Bill went and actually found the house. Now that's cool! That article contains an 1895 map of the area showing the location.

45 Fourth St. is located almost exctly mid-way between Borden and Rodman Streets. 92 Second is almost 1/2 way between those same 2 streets but closer to Borden. In between 4th and 2nd streets lies Third St.  Very clever that part.   Spring St. did not run from Second to Fourth in 1892.

Although I do not believe a note ever existed, it would be quite a challenge for a 5-1/2 year old boy to deliver one from 45 Fourth to 92 Second.

I would estimate the distance to be a quarter of a mile. Perhaps Mr. Pavao can give us a better estimate. Borden St. was very near the center of town and likely to be heavily trafficed and probably quite dangerous for a boy that young.  I don't know anything about Rodman other than it would be slightly longer if he went that way. He would have to cross Third street no matter which way he went.

Do we know whether this boy had ever been to 92 Second St. on a visit prior and if so, by himself?  I doubt the latter.  Would he even know the way by himself?  I doubt Sarah made a habit of dropping in with the kids to visit the Bordens with Emma and Lizzie hovering about.





(Message last edited Aug-2nd-03  8:33 AM.)

This from the January 2002 LBQ, page 21, in that same article by Mr. Rebello mentioned in the previous message:

"No one was home at the Whitehead house on the morning the Bordens were murdered.  Jane Gray, now living at 215 Second St., and her daughter, Sarah Whitehead, were on their way by boat to spend a cool, relaxing and entertaining day at Rocky Point Amusement Park in Rhode Island. Many of the Fall River police were also there for their annual police outing. Sarah's children, Abby and George, stayed with their aunt Lucy Cahoon at 28 Whipple St., a five minute walk from their home on Fourth street......"

So a note was not sent by Sarah. I doubt his aunt Lucy would have sent the 5-1/2 year old boy, who was delivered to her care, out alone to deliver a note.



(Message last edited Aug-2nd-03  9:59 AM.)

Harry, I may have confused the issue here ... but Masterton didn't suggest anyone was at the Whitehead house the time of the murders. If you could check back to my post #9 on this thread -- Masterton thought the note might have been sent to Abby early in the a.m. when Sarah changed her mind about sending little Abby to the Borden's.  This was based on an interview Robert Sullivan conducted years later with "little Abby" herself.

I'm pretty hopeless about distances etc.  But I remember when I was growing up, my father saying something about a mile being about 12 city blocks.  So, if there's any truth to that, 1/4 of a mile would be about 3 blocks, right?  (I agree that the traffic and whether the boy had to cross a busy street would definitely be factors.) 

Actually, I wish Masterton would come in and stick up for himself right about now.

Okay Diana, I went back and read your message #9.  I don't think I had read that message. I haven't ever paid much attention to the note and was under the impression that Sarah was the sick one and wanted Abby B. to come over.

Whipple Street is south of 92 Second St.  If you headed in the direction of the Kelly house (going south) you would come to Morgan Street.  Turning right onto Morgan and then after a short distance made a left you would be on Whipple St.  Not a great distance from 92 Second, probably slightly less than from 45 Fourth tp 92 Second.  That's assuming 28 Whipple is in the same location now as it was in 1892.

I wonder if the word "sent" means what we think.  Could the Whiteheads have left in a carriage, went around to Second St. and then "sent" the boy from the carriage to the door with the note. After that they could have just continued south on Second St. to Whipple. Sarah would not want to go to the door herself as she would be afraid of running into Lizzie or Emma.
 
In any case, I am still not a believer that there was a note, but it's fun to play with the idea of one.

Kat, do you mean when Emma is asked at the Inquest what she and Bridget discussed regarding the morning of the 4th?

"Q.  What did she tell you about it'?
A.  She did not tell me anything. I dont remember asking her but one question, two questions.
Q.  What was that, please?
A.  I asked her if she would stay with us.
Q.  If the other one has no more to do with this matter than that, I dont care for it.
A.  I asked her if she saw any boy come with a note. I  do not remember asking her any other questions." (Emma, Inquest)

HOORAY!! Thank You!




(Message last edited Aug-3rd-03  1:49 AM.)

*Bridget & a boy*--I was close...
So that's probably where Porter got it...[see post #13]  You've answered your question!  Well done.

(Message last edited Aug-3rd-03  1:31 AM.)

Harry, any idea what the present-day street number of 45 Fourth St. is? I gather that the "45" was the street number in 1892 and presumably this was changed when the streets in Fall River were renumbered around 1896 (when 92 Second St. became 230 Second St. and the French St. house number was changed as well).

Doug, according to the article in the January 2002 LBQ (page 22) two houses occupy that lot, a large house in front and the Whitehead house in the rear.  The article says the Whitehead house was moved to the rear.

The large house in front was renumbered to 165 and the Whitehead house to 171.

That was a great find by Rebello and Pavao.  It's nice to know another part of Bordenia still exists.

Thanks, Harry, for the information about the current street number for 45 Fourth St. Would that we all could do that kind of historical sleuthing regarding the Bordens. Who knows what we might turn up!

Indeed Dr. William Masterton did speak on Wednesday evening August 6th in the Fellowship Hall of the First Congregational Church, 282 Rock Street, Fall River.  Dr. Masterton addressed a crowd of nearly 200 souls on the topic of his book, "Lizzie Didn't Do It!" (Branden Publishing Company, Boston, copyright 2000). 

Prior to his appointed hour of addressing the crowd, comprised largely of local folks with interest in the ongoing events sponsored by the Fall River Historical Society, I had the esteem pleasure of meeting Dr. Masterton personally.  After a humble self-introduction I asked him if he would kindly autograph my personal copy of his book, which I had brought with me.  He most graciously obliged the asking and when complete we engaged in wholesome conversation regarding his work on the Borden case both of us having a few laughs over theories and such.

It was while talking with Dr. Masterston that another attendee, a pleasant gentleman who also asked for the authors autograph, asked me if he had heard my name correctly.  I replies he had and he introduced himself as Doug from the this forum.  Well I was very well delighted to have actually met another Bordenite in the flesh.  After Dr. Mastertson excused himself, as he had to make preparations for his presentation, Doug and I spent the next thiry or forty minutes discussing, what else, our favorite topic, Lizzie.

Doug and his lovely wife Mari-Lou, whom I met after the presentation, drove up from their home in Connecticut to hear Dr. Masterton speak.  I had a wonderful time "talking shop" over Lizzie with another devoted "family member". 

Dr. Masterton's presentatio lasted nearly forty-five minutes concluding with questions from the audience.  I have to admit that the retired chemistry professor (and forsenic expert) left the crowd wondering.  He was non-committal as to "who-dunn-it" insisting that "you need to buy the book and read the last three chapters".  He was comical and yet deeply rooted in his forsenic beliefs.  He was a hit with the crowd nontheless.  Sadly however the FRHS had sold out their entire inventory of Dr. Masterton's book long before the presentation begin.  More are on the way according to Mr. Martins, Curator of the Historical Society.

All in all the evening was time well spent and I am sure that should there be a Second Symposium in 2005 (as I am patiently waiting for a reply from BCC President J. Sberga) Dr. Masterton would most certainly appear as a speaker.  The evening ended with cookies and lemonade provided by the Ladies Guild of the Church. 

Hi bobcookbobcook!  Thanks!
Hi Doug and bride!
I feel like I was there.
My friends reporting back.
Say BCBC do you subscribe to the theory of Masterton or just enjoyed a novel idea to gnaw on?
I am very interested in whether Masterton modulated his theory over time in any way?

Mark was going to be there.
I wonder if he will report back, as well as Doug?

Very cool.  Hey, wasn't Augusta supposed to be there this past week too?

This past Wednesday, August 6th, my wife Marilou and I made a day trip to Fall River from our home in Connecticut. We had been thinking about attending William Masterton’s Lizzie Borden talk for the Fall River Historical Society’s Bicentennial program as well as doing some sightseeing. My last stop in Fall River was in 1975 and Marilou could not remember ever visiting there. Anyway, we found we were able to get away for the day and evening so off we went!

Professor Masterton’s lecture was very well attended, close to a full house of 200+ people in the air-conditioned Fellowship Hall of Fall River’s First Congregational Church. While he did not describe his own theories of the Borden case (read his book ‘Lizzie Didn’t Do It!’), Dr. Masterton offered a fine general interest lecture on the case while illustrating his talk with slides. Those who are well versed in the facts of the case might not have picked up too much that was new. But for the average listener looking for an introduction to this aspect of Fall River’s history Professor Masterton’s lecture was most interesting and appropriate. He entertained questions from the audience after he finished his presentation and then stayed in the front of the hall after the program ended to greet attendees personally.

Marilou and I were among the early arrivals at the church (more than an hour before the lecture started) as we were not sure of the parking or seating arrangements. Among the other early arrivals was Forum member Bob Cook. Bob and I, who before Wednesday evening did not know each other except as names on the Forum, met almost by accident while waiting for the lecture to start (see Bob’s message number 32 above). It was a pleasure meeting Bob and we had time both before and after the program to talk and compare some notes. I don’t know if anyone else from this Forum was there; except for seeing a few photos in the personal information sections of the Forum I don’t know what any of you look like!

The other part of Marilou’s and my August 6th trip to Fall River was the sightseeing part; we had four or five hours to drive around and take in some of the significant “Lizzie” locations. Perhaps as time permits I will post some separate messages describing what we saw and some of my impressions. As I said above it was 1975 when I last visited Fall River; I know more about the case now than I did then and am more than twice as old so my present-day perceptions may be some what different than they were almost thirty years ago.

The part about the Ladies Guild serving lemonade and cookies sounded so "Lizzie" to me!! Even though she left that congregation, I'm sure Lizzie was pleased that the present-day church ladies are continuing such ministrations as she would likely have done.  Also, so nice to hear about two Bordenites meeting.  I would love to enjoy an evening with a bunch of you guys--maybe sitting up all night at 92 Second Street and having a good loooong talk!!

Muliple replies:

First to Kat: honestly I had nearly forgotten what Masterton had written, it's been awhile since reading it.  But tonight I re-read the last couple of chapters and his "nemesis" theory who turns out in Chapter 16 to be Jonathan Clegg the "disgruntled employee" who, according to Masterton (page 233) fits the description of Dr. Handy's "wild-eyed man".  Once I had re-read his passages I had to stop and think for a moment, Masterton's theory of "nemesis" could fit the scenario.  But then again so could several other persons fit as well.  So to address your question: I suppose I do embrace a bit of Masterton's work, yep, I guess I do. PS: I can't really say for certain that Masterton has "modulated" his position as he really didn't give a definitive answer when asked, "who do you (Masterton) think did it"?  He skirted the question with, "you'll have to read the last three chapters of the book", what a comeback...if you haven't already read the book, you have to buy it and read for yourself...smart move, great marketing strategy...Masterton even commented that his publisher was going to love him.

Next to Doug: it was a fantastic pleasure to have met another Bordenite face-to-face.  Many of us really never know who the others are and therefore never have an opportunity to meet in the flesh save for such happenstance as we did.  I enjoyed sharing thoughts and views on our favorite "sister" Lizzie, hope to meet you again soon.  Best wishes to your lovely wife MariLou as well.

Now to Robert Harry: the cookies and lemonade were the "right touch" believe me and ladies from the Church Ladies Guild were as doting to the crowd as they would have been in 1892, of that I am quite sure.  Though the cookies were "store bought" (pshaw! Homemade would have really added a nice touch, but times being what they are) they were nonetheless tasty.  I indulged the oatmeal raisin type but alas the crowd hovering over the lemonade table prevented me securing a cup but not to fret I had the remains of a large Lemonade Coolatta from Dunkin Donuts out in the cup holde of my car.  It hit the spot!  But all in all the evening was a wonderment!

Lastly to All: just this afternoon (8/8) while I was out running errands I received a phone call from our very own Ms. Gabriela Adler better known as the Publisher of the LBQ at Bristol Community College (of course the answering machine actually got to talk to her).  The College President had forwarded my letter of recent to Ms. Adler who asked that I call her office on Monday and discuss further the plans and/or intentions for a Second Symposium.  She "sounded" very interested in further discussion so on Monday the 11th yours truly will be on the telly.  I am very optimistic that BCC will endorse a Symposium and afford us the use of the campus assembly hall.  Lets keep our fingers crossed.  So you know I'll be posting more on this very, very, very soon.  Yours in Bordenism...



(Message last edited Aug-8th-03  10:00 PM.)

Well thanks you guys that was a Lot of News!
It's wonderful of you to keep us up-to-date and -on-the-spot!
It's really appreciated!

I had often wondered if living authors still firmly believed their theories proposed or whether, over time, they have shifted opinion somewhat.
I had a little theory that as soon as someone is published, there might arise a time when the author would wish to make some changes or adjustments to their theory.

This Forum is good for me for that, because I change my mind so much.

You are TOO MUCH !!  I'm very proud to be member of that panel of wisdom. Thanks again.