1. "Swansea farmhouse"
Posted by Doug on Aug-13th-03 at 9:56 PM

One of the sights my wife and I looked up last week during our trip to Fall River was the old farmhouse on Gardners Neck Road in Swansea. Leonard Rebello in "Lizzie Borden, Past & Present" identifies the house as the Borden summer home and part of one of two farms in Swansea owned in 1892 by Andrew Borden (pages 43, 50, 53-54). We knew the name of the street (and Gardners Neck Road is a long street) and with a computer produced local street map and the photo of the house from Rebello's book (there are also some photos of this house in the "Galleries" section of the LABVM/L, courtesy of Sherry Chapman) we were able to find the house without much trouble. It sits close to the road and nowadays is surrounded by newer houses, on each side and across the street; nevertheless it is easily recognizable though the hedges in front of the house (and which show in the various photographs) have been removed.

This farmhouse is only a few miles west across Mount Hope Bay and easily accessible from Fall River's downtown area. Today it is part of what appears to be largely a suburban residential development neighborhood. I can picture this area in the late nineteenth century, though, as being mostly open fields (mowings and pasture) and woodlots with land sloping down to the Bay. The house is not on the water but is quite near to it; with open fields and only a handful of neighboring houses/farms it must have afforded a beautiful view of the Bay to the east (and downtown Fall River's "profile") and south across the water toward neighboring areas of Rhode Island.



(Message last edited Aug-25th-03  8:36 PM.)

That was a very nice description, thank you.
When I was working with Sherry on her photo's I noticed a canoe, but did not see any water.  Could there have been a pond of some kind closer than the Bay?

In those photos the farmhouse was much bigger than I ever imagined!

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/FallRiverPhotolog.htm

Also looks like there's a little "privy" or a covered well in the back yahhd.  Has there been any additions since Lizzie's day, or is the entire house original?

We were trying to figure that out.
Sherry thought it was a little *well-house*.
No nearer water for that canoe?

So if Lizzie's lines were at the farm, was she fishing in a creek, a pond or the bay?
Anybody real familiar with the topography?

We did not see any other bodies of water near the farmhouse, at least in front (to the east) and either side (to the north and south). We did not venture west of the house which would be the back. The area where the house is located is a peninsula (water to the east, west, and south) and it appears to be an easy walk to reach the shoreline of Mount Hope Bay. My guess is that Lizzie fished in the Bay.

Speaking of water there is an interesting little tid-bit in Joyce Williams' "Lizzie Borden: A Case Book..."  page 32, in which she reprints an article dated August 5 from the Fall River Herald News.

Here, Morse is being interviewed and tells of the happenings on Thursday morning:

"..... It was about 6 o'clock when I got up, and had breakfast about an hour later. Then Andrew and I read the papers, and we chatted until about 9 o'clock. I am not positive as to the exact time, and it may have been only 8:45 o'clock.  While at the table I asked Andrew why he did not buy Gould's yacht for $200,000, at which price it was advertised, and he laughed , saying what little good it would do him if he really did have it. ...."

I assume the Gould referred to is the financial tycoon Jay Gould.

Somehow I can't see Andrew cruising up and down Mt. Hope Bay.  Lizzie would have loved it though.

What kind of a yacht would this be, at that exorbitant price?!

What was that in 1892 dollas?

You know, I'll bet they were talking about money and this anecdote might indicate that.  Those two could probaly talk about money forever.
This sounds like maybe the girls had been picking at Andrew to spend some $ and the gentleman might have been exaggerating the pressure.  If they were I'll bet Lizzie was listening and her face was getting red!

(Message last edited Aug-23rd-03  1:40 PM.)

From many decades ago, before electricity, a relative's dairy farm had a "well" that was used to keep milk cool before taking it to town. I think they called it a "milkhouse". From afar it could look like a privy.

That would be roughly 4 million dollars in todays money.  Back then yachts were one of THE prestige symbols.

In Tarrytown, NY, Jay Gould had a large summer estate on the banks of the Hudson River named "Lyndhurst".  The house because of its Gothic architecture was used in the TV series "Dark Shadows".

Gould is famous for attempting to corner the gold market and for setting off the Black Friday panic on Wall Street. He would make Andrew look like the sweetest guy in the world.

Gould died in 1892 so it probably was his yacht up for sale.





(Message last edited Aug-23rd-03  7:03 PM.)

Wow, that's interesting Harry!  That reminds me of something.
Was there some big scandal about that house in the 20's?
Like did Mrs. Gould live on and stuff went on in that house?
I wonder how I would find this out.,
I used to read the bio's of the old rich and famous and the old stage & early screen stars...but that was 1/2 my life ago.

Heres what I was able to find out, can't even find a name for Mrs. Gould?  Anyway:

After Jay Gould's death in 1892, the house was purchased by his daughter Helen Miller Gould from the heirs.  Like her father, Helen Miller Gould lived a quiet life at Lyndhurst.  Possibly to compensate for some of her father's perceived wrong doings, Helen became a world-reknowned philanthropist.

Helen Gould's sister, Anna, married Paul Ernest Boniface, a Comte de Castellane, in 1895 and had gone to live in France.  Despite their three sons, the marriage ended unhappily in 1905 when it was annulled.  Anna remained in France and in 1908 married Boniface's cousin, Helie de Talleyrand-Perigord who had the two titles of Prince and Duc(sic, Duke?), and had two more children.

From this site:
http://www.hvnet.com/houses/lyndhurst/index.htm

Found this also, think it is Anna, but they give her name as Anne:


"Why Miss Anne Gould, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Jay Gould, prefers Camels.... 'Like most of the girls I know, I prefer a mild cigarette--that's another reason I prefer Camels.' " 1934

Sorry Kat, no scandal that I could find, from the sounds of it, Jay Gould was scandal enough! 

Anne would be the French version of Anna.  Most likely she changed it to go along with her new lifestyle; sort of like Lizzie.

Interesting too re the philanthropy.  I suppose you could say Emma & Lizzie ended up as philanthropists as well, altho on a less grand & quieter scale.

(Message last edited Aug-24th-03  12:06 AM.)

Thanks all you guys.
I love this stuff!

The pic of the house reminded me.
I suppose I'll stumble upon whatever it was someday...
(TK, I'm in you-know-what mode right now.  It started Thursday, my recoup day, while I was watching "Beyond".)

(Message last edited Aug-24th-03  12:08 AM.)

When Gould died in 1892 his estimated annual income was $5 million and his personal fortune at $70 million.

In round numbers in today's dollars his annual income would be $100 million and his fortune well over $1.25 BILLION.

There's a whole bunch of zeroes in those numbers!

The infamous Jason Gould was the focal point of a large yachting family. He was the proud possessor of the steam yacht, ATALANTA. His son, Howard, was the skipper of the 272 foot NIAGARA. George owned the biggest yacht in the family; the 303 foot ATALANTA II.  By contrast, Frank had to be satisfied with his piddling 185 foot HELINITA, and daughter Anna made do with the 245 foot bark, the VALHALLA.

The Vanderbilts outdid the Goulds in their ownership of big yachts.
As a boy living in Cold Spring Harbor on Long Island, New York I frequently saw the "Vanderbilt yacht" sailling into our harbor. It was impressive.

All of this only goes to prove the old adage that: "Rich or poor, it's nice to have money."

(Message last edited Aug-24th-03  11:42 AM.)

Is that fortune still around, do you know?
That sounds like a couple of lifetimes of spending.

Do you suppose Andrew was talking with Morse about such a topic, even in jest?  If so, was Morse putting out a feeler for the girls (on a lesser scale) or was he of a mind as Andrew?  If he was of the same mind, maybe Morse thought of his nieces as consumers and would not like that aspect of, at least, Lizzie's personality.  If we knew that, we might be able to decide if Morse helped them or not.
Anybody have any ideas?  Anyone studied Morse?

I find it interesting too that Emma was much like the elder daughter, Helen, and was satisfied living a retired quiet, but, wealthy life.  And Lizzie was more like Anna, living the larger, splashier life.  Though I don't think Lizzie posed for any cigarette ads in her life. 

Actually, that would be pretty interesting, outside the obvious; hatchets, what products do you think Lizzie might give a testimonial for? 

It sounds like John and Andrew were kidding around. The Gould yacht, at $200,000, was way out of Andrew's league (though Hetty Green might have been able to afford it!). I don't attach any significance to the conversation.

It has come to my attention via Doug that this view of the farmhouse is the front view.
I checked by flipping this picture and comparing it with Sherry's current photos found in the Picture Gallery at LABVM/L.  Especially looking at the chimneys.
I belive Doug is correct.  But with 2 front doors and the guttering on the front, it's not particularly attractive.
PS:  The original pic came labeled "Rear View".  Good eye there Doug!



THIS is the FLIPPED view

(Message last edited Aug-24th-03  6:11 PM.)

Good eagle eyes Doug.  Speaking of Swansea I found this rather idyllic postcard showing the Swansea post office. Looks like early 1900's. 

What is unique is that the road appears to have just a strip on the left side either paved or cobblestoned.

The carriage by the P.O. is cool.



(Message last edited Aug-24th-03  7:00 PM.)

Wow Harry!  That's beautiful!  You come up with some gems!

I wonder what that paved strip is for?  Bicycles? They were ahead of their time then, because in Florida they are just the last few years making bike-paths specifically for bike safety.
However we don't have the road deterioration that New England would in the winter or rainy season!

Oh, BTW:  Does that farmhouse look to be a duplex?  Andrew bought it with Almy, right?

The two front doors, the window arrangement in front, and the two chimneys make the farmhouse appear to have two apartments. According to Rebello (pages 50 and 53-54) Andrew Borden and William Almy owned the house together (William Almy died on June 11, 1885). Someone who worked on the farm might have lived in part of the house, too.

I wonder if the "paved" strip on the side of the street in the picture showing the Swansea post office had anything to do with horsecar or trolley rails? It is difficult to tell from the picture whether rails are part of that strip.

(Message last edited Aug-25th-03  8:40 PM.)

Thanks for your observation.
Then maybe the Bordens shared the farm until Almy's death.
And maybe Lizzie was by then sick of sharing.
I wonder how much Lizzie loved the farm, or whether she didn't care about it?

If Abby wanted a companion with her when Abby & Andrew removed to Swansea in the summer, maybe the other part, in later years was not inhabited by another family?
If the farm manager lived in the other 1/2 how could the Bordens designate their class and social standing sharing equal quarters?  Hmm, interesting...

Did somebody steal the horse? Or just posed by the photographer?
The metalled road was obviously for motor cars, which ran best on a hard surface. Horses preferred plain dirt; cobblestones were for city folk; kept down the dirt and mud.

The house is typically English (close to the ground). Dutch influence put the stoop about 3 feet off the ground.
People lived in smaller houses then.

And, there don't appear to be electric lines running over the hard surfaced side of the road so that excludes a trolley powered by electricity. If automobiles were operated on this paved strip I wonder if it was all "one-way" driving? If not, which driver would yield the right-of-way? There does appear to be a vehicle on the strip in the distance.

I found the Swansea farmhouse easily by using the house address:
1205 New Gardner's Neck Road.  It's a short drive from Fall River.  So if you go, definitely take a few minutes to go see it.  I had thought it was way out someplace and never attempted it before.  It sure was a thrill to see.

I think the house is too small to be a duplex.  I never even considered it to be one.  But it's an interesting concept. 

I liked the little anecdote of Morse and Andrew's dialogue.  They had a lot in common - money, penny pinching, and investing (sometimes together).  I think it was just simple conversation.  I don't attach anything to it.

Wow - you guys are great finding all that stuff about that yacht guy.  The "Dark Shadows" house???!  And finding that cigarette ad??!
Bill, you are to be envied at having the memory of seeing the Vanderbilt yacht.  Sigh!

Oh, I love that question:  what would Lizzie endorse?  I really think if she did anything like that, she would lend her likeness to a charity to keep her ladylike aura about her.  But then, it was unfashionable for a lady to be in the newspaper at all, except for marriage announcements and obituaries. 

But I don't wanna be sensible with this one.  How about an endorsement for the Pear Farmers of America?  Weight Watchers - and they could use her 'before' pictures as that Newport photo when she gained weight from being in jail.  She could have her own line of jewelry ala Joan Rivers on QVC (pansy pins, etc.).  A spokesperson for learning at home on "Selective Hearing". 

Harry, do a picture of Lizzie with a milk mustache saying "Got Milk"?

  I was thinking along the lines of the old coffee commercial where the wife comments on the husband's coffee drinking habits, "Gee, John never has 2 cups of coffee at home."  It could be Emma and Lizzie at Alice's drinking coffee and Alice offers Lizzie that second cup.....

Come to think of it, why don't we know if the girls ever stopped over to see Alice and hang out at her house?
It doesn't seem like they did...I wonder why?

Here's a quicky fake for you Augusta.  What else but Borden's milk even though they're not related.



(Message last edited Aug-30th-03  8:28 AM.)

  Harry, thats great!  All she needs now is a little plate of those hatchet shaped cookies from the B&B! 

That is so cool!  I thought about trying to do it-- but this is Great!
Thanks Har!

That's hilarious, Harry!