1. "Yet another VCR Alert"
Posted by Tina-Kate on Jan-28th-03 at 12:55 AM

For anyone who hasn't yet seen A&E's Biography of Lizzie Borden (or anyone who'd like an encore), it's listed for tomorrow (Tues Jan 28) @ 8 PM Eastern on A&E.

This seems to be Lizzie week...I ran across Discovery's "World's Creepiest Places" while channel surfing on Sunday, & they showed a very brief segment on the B&B...it made No. 1 on the list.

  Waah!  I don't have cable, I miss all those cool shows now!

Ok, I'll admit it too --- I don't have any cable either.
I did have that Dish Network & then the box-thing
tore up a few months after it was paid for, which means that
if it was to be fixed I would have to pay for it.

Gee, sorry guys...wasn't meant to torment you.  Yikes...I can barely afford cable myself & I just have a basic pkg.

If you really truly want to see it, it's a pretty old show & you can get it thru A&E's website (also the B&B as well as bn.com, I believe)...to treat yrself, or for b-day wish list!

Anyway...should mean another burst of hits on the website tonite.

And miss the State of the Union speeches?

i just watched it.  of course, didn't really learn anything, except possibly this:

it says that it was known among the local merchants, before the murders, that lizzie was a thief -- and it was common practice for them to just bill andrew for items she stole.  does anyone know if this is just part of the legend or is there plausible evidence that this is fact?

theft is definitely a part of her reputation, even after the murders.

On Country Lawyer --- Lizzie Borden, Jules Rykebusch says
that about her, as though it were the truth. It was also
in The Legend movie. It seems like it defeats the purpose
of stealing if someone is going to follow along behind you
and pay. What is the thrill in that?

I was thinking last night about Lizzie's reputation for kleptomania.  "Victorian Vistas" has a newspaper story about the supposed theft of the porcelain ornaments from Tilden-Thurber.  It's quite a mysterious piece, written after the fact, and simply says the matter was "resolved" to the satisfaction of both parties.  I don't believe I've ever read any direct evidence of any thefts by Lizzie other than the accounts of that incident.  It seems to be a theme that runs through a lot of the fictionalized versions of the Borden story, though.  If she did indeed have that reputation in Fall River, you would think it would have surfaced in the Witness Statements or during that "sanity survey" that was conducted after the murders.  I have wondered if the whole idea might have come out of two incidents: the burglary at the Borden house, in which Abby's property was taken, and the Tilden-Thurber incident.  As the late, great Peggy Lee would say, "Is That All There Is?"

Thats a good point, Edisto.  Where did all these other tales of Lizzie's klepto behaviour come from?

If she did indeed take things from shops and the store owners knew what it was and discreetly sent the bill to Andrew, it almost sounds like shopping on credit to me.  And from Emma's testimony we hear that Lizzie orders a great deal of things from....where was it, that one shop, which if Lizzie did have a klepto problem would have kept her out of trouble.

This sounds like a legend that may have grown over time, anyone have any references of other Lizzie thefts? 

Another possible source is the late Mrs. Florence Cook Brigham.  I seem to recall that she said in an interview that Lizzie was "known" to have been a shoplifter.  However, Mrs. Brigham was a generation removed from Lizzie and got most of her information from Mary Brigham, her mother-in-law.  Mary Brigham and Lizzie were supposedly fast friends.  Would Mary Brigham have admitted having been pals with a known shoplifter?  The question, of course, would be where the mother-in-law and/or Florence Brigham herself got the information.

That is another Lizzie thingy that I have a hard time with. I can't see old frugal Andrew blindly paying for things the stores say Lizzie picked up.

"Well Mr. Borden, Lizzie took a $500 dollar watch. Please remit."

I would think there would have been one hell of a confrontation between the two (Lizzie and Andrew) if Andrew started getting bills for items that Lizzie denied taking. Or even better, between Andrew and the store if he believed Lizzie.

On Biography, shown last night, they mentioned Lizzie shoplifting at McWhirrs.  I believe it was Prof, Ryckesbusch that mentioned it. Would have to view the tape again to make sure.

(Message last edited Jan-29th-03  2:11 PM.)

There is another entry in Rebello, page 306, regarding shoplifting:

"... a rumor has been widely circulated within the past 24 hours that the Pinkerton detectives have been shadowing Miss Borden on suspicion that she has been shop-lifting in Boston." from the F. R. Evening News, Nov. 20, 1899.

I would really like to disbelieve this story about Lizzie and the shoplifting incident.  Edisto, I'm guessing the newspaper story in Victorian Vistas is the Feb. 16, 1897 Providence Daily Journal story?  I haven't read it. But you don't seem totally convinced of its veracity.  Can you give us a few more details on that article?

Apparently the LBQ 11.4/5 (Fall/Winter 1995):8-9 has an article wherein Paul Fletcher discusses the Tilden-Thurber affair. It's linked to the "forged confession" supposedly extracted from Lizzie at that time.  Anyone have that issue?  I don't have either Victorian Vistas or that LBQ -- so can't come up with anything more that isn't speculation-based. 

[Edit here:--Am responding to post #9, and the posts since then were not yet here...have not read]


Allow me to introduce you to Mrs. Gifford.
Whenever the shoplifting tales are recounted, Mrs. Gifford always comes to mind.
She is a past curator of the Fall River Historical Society, and her husband owned Gifford's Jewlery Store.
Information from someone who knew those who knew her said about Gifford's store that if there was a society wedding in Fall River on a smaller scale, you went to Gifford's for the gift.  If it was a bit higher echelon, you went to Tilden-Thurber in Providence...if it was a huge deal, you went to Tiffany, and in that order.

Now Mr. Gifford may have, one day, come home joking about Lizzie Borden.  It seemed like something he might do.  And His wife took him seriously, but did not discuss it, and it became a story told without any proof or back-up.  It was believed by Mrs. Gifford as TRUE, otherwise she would not have repeated the story.  It is thought by some that it was all a
misunderstanding...and then there was the Tilden-Thurber incident , which no one seems able to explain.

Apparently the debutantes and the priveledged girls with rich fathers had credit accounts at Gifford's, T-T and possibly Tiffany's out of town., and then in other shops within Fall River, and it was
common practice to bill their fathers monthly for their purchases.
This MAY have been true of Lizzie, and an innocent remark by Mr. Gifford at home, may have led to this story.

Mrs. Gifford is in Rebello, pg. 478, 485, & 500.
She is also in deMille, Dance of Death, pg. 106:

deMille, as footnote:
" * Mrs. Gifford, Miss Winslow's successor at the Fall River Historical Society, told me that whenever Miss Borden entered her husband's jewelry store it was understood she was never to be left alone for a minute with any of the merchandise. Even so, she was able to filch items from time to time. They were added without comment to her bill and she paid without remonstrance, performing a neat act of oblivion."

--It might be possible to understand how a story came about by Seeing the possibilites inherent in this recounting, and the next from Rebello, pg. 500:

""Lizzie Borden: Did She Do It?" Hartford Courant, Hartford, CT, August 16, 1971: 2.

"Interview with eighty-five year old Mrs. Ellis Gifford, curator of the Fall River Historical Society, recalled Lizzie as a kleptomaniac. She knew Lizzie but didn't like her much. Mrs. Gifford said, 'She [Lizzie] wasn't ostracized, but, she was ignored ... people didn't mingle with her.' Mrs. Gifford's husband owned Gifford's Jewelry Store in Fall River. He watched Lizzie 'very carefully' when she came to the store. Mrs. Gifford went on to state that 'the clerks would watch her carefully if my husband was busy. She had plenty of money to buy everything she wanted. It was a compulsion.' Mrs. Gifford believed Lizzie murdered her parents. She said, 'Nobody thought about it [Borden murders] once it was over. It was only when people came in and started to write books about it that anybody got interested in it.' "

-Now, here are 2 other cites to what ELSE Mrs. Gifford had to say about our Lizzie:

Rebello, pg 485:
" 'I wish that girl had never been born.' (Mrs. Ellis Gifford, former Director of the Fall River Historical Society, according to Mrs. Florence Brigham.)"

--When questioned, gave a quote during debates as to including Lizzie Borden in the Tourism Trade of Fall River, and capitalizing on her infamy.
---------
Rebello, pg. 478:
Upon the premiere of The Legend movie, and asked if she watched the film Mrs. Gifford said:
"I am sick of Lizzie."







(Message last edited Jan-29th-03  5:16 PM.)

"On Biography, shown last night, they mentioned Lizzie shoplifting at McWhirrs.  I believe it was Prof, Ryckesbusch that mentioned it."

Yes, it was Prof. Ryckesbusch who said it. During the show it became obvious he didn't like Lizzie.  He made some statements about how Lizzie was in the courtroom which gave the viewer the idea she was always acting this way or that, playing up for the jury, etc.  I think he was very biased. 

If Andrew knew about and paid bills for Lizzie's supposed kleptomanic sprees, what happened to all the stuff she stole? Did she give them away, in which case wouldn't people have said.  If she threw them away, where?  Did Andrew then have to take all those things from Lizzie and take them back to the store.  How would he know if Lizzie stole things if she didn't bring them home for him to see, otherwise he would be paying the store for something he didn't know she took? Any store could get a wad out of Andrew for pulling such a scheme but I doubt if they thought Andrew was dimwitted enough to fall for that.
Maybe all this business of her being a kleptomaniac stemmed from that one incident about the two porcelain items, which happened way later after she moved to Maplecroft, and it wasn't stealing, it was a misunderstanding about payment which was ironed out later.

Is it kleptomania to steal something from your own house, even if it doesn't belong to you specifically, such as trying to pin the housebreak in and stealing of Abby's items on Lizzie?     

Fortunately, it's possible in this case to tell from which newspaper the account came.  It's apparently the "Fall River Herald." Dr. Silvia doesn't usually favor us with that information.  His subtitle  simply says, "As Viewed Through Its Newspaper Accounts," not specifying which paper in most cases  This item is dated February 17, 1897, and is found on page 594 of Silvia's Volume II (1886-1900):

                    "NO STATEMENT YET GIVEN

                    NOBODY DIRECTLY CONNECTED
                WITH THE BORDEN EPISODE WILL TALK

                     LOCAL POLICE CONSULTED

Inquiries in Providence this morning go to show that unless unexpected developments occur, the Borden episode is closed.  The Herald has heretofore refrained from using the name of Miss Lizzie A. Borden in connection with this case, because while a warrant for her arrest was undoubtedly issued, it appeared probable that some satisfactory explanation of the affair would have been offered before this.  There is reason for believing that any differences between the firm of the Tilden-Thurber Co. have now been satisfactorily settled.  At all events, everybody from the members of the firm, the detectives and police officials acquainted with the case, to the hack driver employed to take police to Miss Borden's house, refuses to discuss matters further.
There is no doubt that the Tilden-Thurber Co. believed that Miss Borden had a painting of theirs for which she had not paid.  A warrant was sworn out...It is known too that Mr. Tilden came to town and that he consulted some of his customers here with reference to some case if not this one...
A Herald reporter visited the art department of the store of the Tilden-Thurber Co. in Providence this morning to look over the collection of pictures which proved such an attraction to Fall River's now famous connoisseur.  After a hasty examinaiton of the pictures on exhibition in the general art department and in the studio, the Herald man entered the choice art department from which it is supposed that "Love's Echo" took flight.  He was asked by a clerk if he cared to look at anything special and stated in reply that he merely wanted to look over the collection...
The picture which still reposes in the gallery and which most resembles the description of the missing one is "The Springtime of Love."  It is a representation of two Greek figures, a man and a woman.  The former is standing with his arm around the woman and bends forward to smell a flower which the latter is holding up.  The frame is very fancy open work, gold tone, with a representation of a bow of ribbon of gold at the top.  The price tag on it indicated a selling price of $37."

That's all there is, and the original piece has apparently been edited, as reflected by the ellipses.
I have all the back issues of the LBQ but haven't yet looked at that reference.

Gosh I love it when they show Lizzie stuff on TV. The hits on the web site go through the roof! Yesterday I had 35,000 hits, 2.5 times the daily average! With that I also had two new subscribers to the monthly Lizzie Borden Newzletter and two new members here on the forum as well.

To those who do try to sign up as a forum member, please provide a full name and email address please. I cannot sign you up without this information.

Thanks, Kat.  Was Mr. Gifford any relation to Hannah Gifford?  So, it may all still be hearsay or not.  This Mrs. Gifford was supposed to be a friend of Lizzie's?  She seems to have quite a love/hate relationship with her then.

But, then where did this idea that Lizzie was never to be left alone with the merchandise in the jewelery store if there wasn't some reason for it?  I'm wondering if something didn't happen at least once, even innocently, for this idea to come about.  Like Lizzie trying on some jewelery and than putting the items back, but, forgetting something like a brooch or something and walking out of the store still wearing it.  Possibly realizing her error and brings it back and boom, shes a shoplifter! 

Don't know if this is THE "Springtime of Love" painting referred to in the article, but there is one by that name by Arnold Böcklin and was painted in 1868. So far I was not able to find the exact image, but from looking at his other pieces, the description would fit the style of his work.

Here is a brief bio of the artist:

"Arnold Böcklin (Swiss, 1827-1901)

Biography
Arnold Böcklin was born in Basle, Switzerland on October 16th 1827. The son of a merchant, he overcame his father's opposition thanks to the poet Wilhelm Wackernagel and was able to devote himself to art. In 1845 he attended the Düsseldorf Academy of Art, where his teacher was Johann Wilhelm Schirmer, known for his heroic-panoramic style of painting.

Between 1847 and 1848 he travelled to Brussels, Antwerp, Switzerland and Paris. From the autumn of 1848 he worked in Basle, moving to Rome in 1850. In Rome he studied the work of the ancients and found the inspiration for many important works. In 1853 he married Angela Pascucci, a young Italian girl from Rome. There followed a somewhat obscure period, ending when he was appointed to the post of Professor at the Academy of Weimar in 1860. Two years later he returned to Rome to visit Naples and Pompeii and the frescos he discovered had a lasting influence on his technique and his future artistic production.

In autumn 1866 he started work on the fresco that was to decorate the main staircase of the Museum of Basle. The period that followed was particularly productive and his style improved enormously in terms of colour, form and inspiration.

From 1874-84 he lived in Florence, surrounded by disciples. During this period he produced his most controversial works, such as The Island of the Dead and The Holy Wood.

In 1895 he moved to his villa at San Domenico, near Fiesole. It was here that he lived the last years of his life, continuing to paint until his death on January 16th 1901.

Art historians have always found it difficult to classify this original, proud, somewhat eccentric painter who, like Da Vinci, experimented in his garden with human flight. He disliked giving titles to his pictures and declared that he painted in order to make people dream:

"Just as it is poetry's task to express feelings, painting must provoke them too. A picture must give the spectator as much food for thought as a poem and must make the same kind of impression as a piece of music.."

"Who would ever have been able to anticipate the effect of music before having heard it? Painting should pervade the soul in the same way, and as long as it does not do this it is nothing more than a brainless handicraft."

"There is no end to the poetry of the beautiful." "

SOURCE: http://www.artmagick.com/artists/bocklin.aspx?p=1#browse

This painting is called "Girl and Boy Picking Flowers" by the same artist:

Thanks, Stef.  Sounds like we were both doing the same thing.  Since reading Edisto's post I went on a search to see if I could find any artwork by those new names listed; Love's Echo and The Springtime of Love.  I had gone on a search before with the other 2 names that had been attributed to the "stolen" artwork; Love's Awakening and Love's dream.  Which is right now? 

This Arnold Böcklin's work looks like the PreRaphaelite painting that was going on in the later Victorian period. 

So it looks like there were at least two newspaper reports of this incident. Thanks, Edisto, for posting the one from Fall River Vistas.  In his "Lizzie" afterword, Evan Hunter cites the Providence Daily Journal article that appeared the day before the one Dr. Silvia mentions. According to Hunter, the Providence Daily Journal reported that the warrant was issued -- "charging that she had stolen two inexpensive paintings on marble [?] from the Tilden-Thurber Company in Providence" -- but the warrant was never served. (Hunter,446)

That's nice to give her the benefit of the doubt. Unlike those who immediately assume any nasty story about Lizzie is true.
The question reporters ask is: are there two independent sources for this story? If twenty people say the same thing, but get it from the one source, how reliable is it? Any warrant issued (official document) would answer this question; was there one?

Isn't that a pretty racy portrait for 1890s Victorian New England?
Almost like Playboy from the 1960s? Remember them?

This is in reference to Paul Fletcher's article, "Lizzie Borden Again/Lizzie's Tilden-Thurber 'Confession'," which appeared in the Fall/Winter 1995 issue of the LBQ.  I won't quote all of it, because it's 'way too long for that.  I know it's dangerous to abridge, but here goes:

Fletcher refers to the Providence Daily Journal article of February 17, 1897, and mentions that the closing of Tilden-Thurber a few years before reminded him of a story about Lizzie.  Then he says stories about Lizzie can't be relied on as truth. (Really?)  He thereupon proceeds to add to the fictions by getting both Andrew's and Abby's ages wrong in the same sentence.  He quotes from the opening of the article and then says it was "common knowledge in Fall River that Lizzie Borden was a kleptomaniac."  Apparently his source for this was "the late Constance Winslow, former director of the Fall River Historical Society."  He quotes Mrs. Winslow as saying that when Lizzie entered the Winslows' jewelry store, Mr. Winslow would keep an eye on Lizzie and send her father the bill for anything she shoplifted.  (And maybe a few things she didn't shoplift?)  He then mentions that Victoria Lincoln wove an interesting theory around Lizzie's proclivity.  (What the interesting theory was, he doesn't say.  Possibly that she suffered from "temporal epilepsy?)
 
Fletcher then inserts a lively bit of personal history.  His grandfather, the late Bernard Sweeney, ran a moving company and did business with Lizzie.  He described her as "a good tipper."

Fletcher thinks the Borden case was simmering on the back burner until 1959, when Edward Rowe Snow included it in his book,"Piracy, Mutiny and Murder."  Seems Snow had gotten a 1952 phone call from a guy named Thomas H. Owens, who claimed to have a photocopy of an alleged confession that Lizzie had signed in 1897. He was willing to sell.  This was indeed the supposed confession that was wormed out of her after she got into trouble for allegedly shoplifting at Tilden-Thurber.  (Fletcher says the purloined items were two porcelain figurines.)  According to Fletcher, Henry Tilden persuaded the Journal to withhold publication of the article and try to get a confessiion out of Lizzie by threatening to charge her with shoplifting and publish the story.

Tilden and the Journal official called on Lizzie at Maplecroft and laid their cards on the table.  Give them a signed confession or risk further disgrace.  (Would Lizzie have cared at that point?)  Lizzie refused, so the story was published, after which a detective called on Lizzie and told her she would be arrested unless she signed a confession to the earlier crime.  Lizzie donned her sealskin sack and returned with the detective to Providence.  Once there, she sat down at the typewriter and typed out the well-known words, "Unfair means force my signature here admitting the act of August 4, 1892 as mine alone.  (Signed) Lizbeth A. Borden."  (Lizzie could type?)  The "confession" was taken to Boston, where it was photocopied.  Mr. Owens, then a copy boy, made a bootleg copy for himself - the one he sold to Snow.  Supposedlly the original photographic plates were lost in a fire, and the hurricane/flood of 1938 washed away the original confession. (Deus ex machina!)

In 1960, Edward Radin retold the story in his book and hired a handwriting expert to examine the photocopy.  The expert, Ordway Hilton, pronounced the signature a forgery, probably traced from a copy of Lizzie's will. 

Fletcher winds up by telling us that his Grandpa Sweeney always referred to the "Providence Journal" as the "Protestant Journal."

Incidentally, I think I goofed in saying Florence Brigham was the one who repeated the story of Lizzie's shoplifting.  Or maybe I didn't.  Whoever it was, she apparently had something to with the FRHS!

Wilhelm Wackernagel?  There was a poet named Wilhelm Wackernagel? 

If anyone can get a copy of Edward Radin's "Lizzie, the Untold Story" the chapter on the detective work against that forgery is the best part of the book!!! At least for me.
Using a 30+ year old typewriter! Tracing a copy of the will!! Then putting it together to create a story!!! They don't make them like that anymore.

Unfair means cause me to acknowledge the above as my act alone.

Edisto -- thank you so much for that wonderful summary of Fletcher's article. I have never believed in the 'confession' story.  Especially Edward Rowe Snow's scenario that had Lizzie closeted in the store with five men from 6 p.m. until midnight saying "Never, never, never, never!" until "on the stroke of midnight, as Parker started to serve the warrant, Lizzie walked across to a typewriter and began typing". (Radin p. 256)

I did go back and re-read the part in Radin about the handwriting expert. He makes an excellent case for the signature being a forgery. (I'm always so pleasantly surprised by Radin's style of prose. It is so clean and clear and there is such a nice flow to his narrative.)

And as for Wilhelm -- let's face it.  What else could he be?  

Edward Radin was an experienced reporter who covered hundred of murder trials. NY Herald-Tribune? He also wrote other books.

radin is a good writer, but his effort to shift the blame to the maid is an unreasonable stretch.  the maid did not do it.   she told the truth.  radin's biggest mistake was to try to make the case that someone could not see the body under the bed from the stairs.  what one would see from any step would depend on one's height.  a certain height would never see that body, but a different height would.  and that bridget was seen limping across the yard (hiding an axe underneath her skirt) is way too speculative.  if she was limping, it was from running around so much. 

I was transcribing Fleet's first notes on his initial Interviews with Lizzie, Bridget & Morse on Thursday.

Bridget says she is in the house and upstairs when Andrew is killed.

If Lizzie is outside, yet Bridget is in the house, I don't see why Bridget wasn't more of a suspect.
As I transcribed that, picturing Lizzie out in the barn for half an hour (see statement in Privy), and Bridget's only story is she was up fixing her room and didn't hear a door open, I think Bridget becomes MORE suspicious.

Bridget wasn't a suspect because this is what Lizzie told the police. They investigated anyway, and found nothing here or of Andy's workers.
Who then would be the "likely suspect"? The one remaining suspect.

People who murder cannot inherit after being convicted. Unless it looks like an illness (poison). That's another reason why Lizzie herself would not do it. But an illegitimate child (who can't inherit under English law) is another thing! Has nothing to lose, if he can get away with it.

Radin did not make a mistake; the city engineer Kiernan? testified that it would be hard to see the body when descending the steps. Most people look down when descending; try this yourselves. He also testified that his taller assistant could not be seen by the taller Kiernan.

Does anyone here ever look the the side when descending steps? Particularly if the door was closed?

Radin was an experienced writer. He knew, like Patricia Cornwell, that a novel solution would sell his book. That is the business they're in!

Trial
Kieran
109+
Q.  Did you make any experiments as to what could be seen of an object between the bureau and the bed in the room upstairs over the parlor?
A.  I did.
Q.  Now tell us what you did.
A.  I had my assistant lay down on the floor in the guest room, between the bed and the bureau.
Q.  How large is he?
A.  He is just about my size?
Q.  And how tall are you?
A.  I don't know sir.
---------------
Q.  Did you go up the stairs in the ordinary way that you go up stairs?
A.  I did.
Q.  Now, tell us what you saw and what you did not see.
A.  Under the bed, as I went up stairs, I saw the man stretched on the floor.  I did not see him in any other way.
---------------
Q.  How was it when you stood upon the floor of the hall upstairs, in front of the door which we will call Miss Lizzie's room?
A.  I couldn't see him.
Q.  Do you know whether the position of the bed and the bureau as you had it that day you were taking the observations, corresponded at all with what it was when Mrs. Borden's body was found?
A.  I do not.
Q.  Were you requested to take measurements by Dr. Dolan, the medical examiner, or Mr. Hilliard, of the distance between the bureau and the bed at any time?
A.  I was.
Q.  How soon after the tragedy?
A.  I went there at Dr. Dolan's request on the 16th of August.

--I think it's pretty funny that the engineer doesn't know how tall he is.  But in an age of no drivers license, maybe he only needed to know when he bought a suit or had one made?
--Going downstairs is not experimented with.
--The measurements are from Aug. 16, 1892, and he does not know if the bed and the sofa are in the positions there were on Thursday Aug. 4th.
--Also Lizzie said the guestroom door was closed.  So it is moot?

what you can see on a particular step is a matter of how tall or short you are.  some people could never have seen the body under the bed. some could have, depending on their eye level when they stood on a specific step.

if i'm 5' 7" i see one thing when i stand here.  if i'm 5' 4" i have a different view.  i think that's the simple explanation for whether or not one could see abby's body fromt the staircase.

"If Lizzie is outside, yet Bridget is in the house, I don't see why Bridget wasn't more of a suspect."

Yes, and I believe that Bridget said she didn't lock her room when she fled down the stairs in answer to Lizzie's urgent plea after finding Andrew on the sofa.  Yet the testimony of the police said that they found Bridget's room locked when they checked it Thursday.
Unless I am mistaken.  It does seem strange that she would stop to lock her room after hearing a distress message from her employer. 

Sunday night on The Food Network, the infamous Emeril Lagasse is returning to Fall River, where he grew up, to cook and reminisce.  I don't see anything Bordenish in the promo, but you never know - he's mentioned Lizzie on his shows before...

do you know what time it is on Bob? i would like to
catch that!

Oooh, Fall River's other infamous person!

I'll keep my eyes peeled for the show.  I wonder if there'll be a bit with shots of FR?  One thing I've noticed whenever I've seen Emeril take a show on location, he doesn't often do the "short picture tour" thing.  I'd hope he'll make an exception for his home town.

Never heard him mention Lizzie on the show, tho I always hoped he would.  Maybe when he's using the meat cleavers?

the ultimate answer to this is MOTIVE.

and we don't know where lizzie was.

we can't lose sight of our most dependable clues concerning crime -- and they apply so obviously in the borden case.

1. who benefits?

2. who has the clearest opportunity?  (lizzie had the clearest, most obvious opportunity for both murders)

these two facts can never be disproven; in fact, according to anything like evidence, they are undeniable.  (these are facts we know that forever make her the primary suspect.)

thus far, all the theories that find her innocent are largely fictional and stem from the desire to find her innocent.

     
AIR TIMES:
June 22, 2003 8:00 PM EST
June 22, 2003 11:00 PM EST
June 28, 2003 3:00 PM EST


 

Fall River Memories
Join Emeril and the women he credits with inspiring him to cook -- his mom, Hilda and her friend Ines. Come join them as they remember the good old days in Fall River and cook up some great classic Portuguese recipes!

Well since you reached back into the past to comment, I will comment on your comment.


Bridget had the same opportunity as did Lizzie.

As to motive of each, we are in the dark when it comes to Bridget.

I watched both shows with Emeril.  Nary a word on Lizzie.

He did mention Bedford St., Columbia St. and North Main but that's about as close as it got. Some nice views of the bridge.

Both shows were entirely about his boyhood memories and Portuguese cooking.  Too spicy for me.

Bah!  Canada's "Food Network" has different content.  Tonite's 8 PM Emeril was Vietnamese Cooking.

Thanks Harry, for letting us know we didn't miss much.

(At least he didn't do mutton)

I don't have cable right now and miss watching Emeril, or repeats of Julia Child for that matter, oh, and two fat ladies!  I love the cooking shows where the people who do it are total characters! 

Gee, a washout, huh?  Still, it was fun to hear that terrible Southern Massachusetts accent, wasn't it?  And the footage of the drive acroos the bridge to Fall River brought back lots of memories for me.  I bet there are plenty of Fall Riverites who are happy to have ANOTHER famous citizen who chops things up, respectably!

I watched it too and enjoyed the second part where he took
us around Fall River to the different restaurants.  That
sausage and potato sandwich sure looked good, and the chow mein
sandwich, and the soup...i'm getting hungry again.  No mention
of Lizzie though but I enjoyed the tour!

Oh, I didn't mean to say I didn't enjoy both shows. I get a kick out of Emeril.

It's just that he only said the name of the restaurant and not on what street it and he were on.  I was trying to get a feeling for what part of Fall River he was raised.  I think the restaurants would have liked the location spelled out as well.  How often do you get a free national TV advertisement like that!

True Harry, I wish he took us to his home and said more
about Fall River but he did a good job, nice guy! The whole
time I was feeling bad though, my son always wanted to be a
chef, go to cooking school, Johnson & Wales, (that is where
Emeril went!) and I said NO, I want him to get a bachelor's degree
and then he can go to cooking school later if he still wants to.
At the time my son told me "I shattered his dreams" and he just
did what I said.  At the time I thought it was the melodrama of
a 17 yr. old and stuck to my guns.  But after watching that program
last night, I felt bad, my son is such a great cook, maybe I should
have let him do it.  OYE.  Well now he is fitness director at a
high class club and making good money, I hope he didn't see that
show and hate me! 

I hope this doesn't sound trite:  But everything happens for a reason.
And you can't force someone to do something they don't want to do.
It took two to make that decision.
And there is still time to go on and become more, don't you think?

Thanks Kat, this weekend his wife has all her college
buddies coming to stay and the big draw is "Waylon's Omelets"
he used to make them for the girls.  He could still go to
cooking school but I think he shifted gears to family and
making me some Grandbabies, (I'm hoping!) 

If you are coming up to MY age and still have no granbabies, I can see where you would be crossing your fingers , ready for That!

ha ha, I am definitely ready for Grandbabies at age 53!
I have been good at keeping my mouth shut though, "they want
to wait till they buy a house, do this do that..." oye (just
Do it!) but I'm being good, they will DO IT when they are ready,
groan, yawn.