Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden Topic Name: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence  

1. "the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by diana on Jun-16th-03 at 7:38 PM

I know this has come up before on the forum.  But I'm still intrigued by the idea that Andrew (or someone in the Borden household) sold vinegar to Charles Sawyer.

Sawyer says in his inquest testimony: "I have been there in the house. I used to go there once in a while to make some little purchases in vinegar and stuff."  (Inquest,136)  There were all those vinegar barrels in the cellar that were noted by the police officers who searched the area.  But was that the custom of the day I wonder --to sell homemade products to your neighbors?  Sawyer was a pretty close neighbor.  He testified that he lived in "the third house north" from the Borden house. But he would only have had to walk two more doors down to get vinegar from Wade's Store.  Was Andrew's better?  Or cheaper?

Another interesting sidelight of Sawyer's testimony is how quickly he found out about the murders.  He and Allen were almost the first on the scene (Sawyer thought he arrived very shortly after 11.) When he was asked at the Inquest how he heard about the event, he said that a salesman from Providence told him about it.   

"While I was up in that machine shop [Sawyer said the shop was opposite where he lived], this gentleman came in and reported it, and he told a man there afterwards that he came from Providence that morning, and had landed at the Mellen House. I judged that he came from the Mellen House direct to his store, I judged from that he came on the half past ten o’clock train, although it seemed to me a little earlier than [that]. I thought I was there about eleven or a little before...."(Inquest, 139)

Do we know how the man from Providence would have heard the news so quickly?



(Message last edited Jun-16th-03  7:43 PM.)


2. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by Edisto on Jun-16th-03 at 9:02 PM
In response to Message #1.

Saw it on CNN?  I have no idea how the guy from Providence found out, except that Mrs. Churchill went out and apparently told a couple of people, who told a couple more, who told a couple more, ad infinitum.  I'm constantly amazed at what a good network people had back then.  The mail apparently was faster and more dependable than it is now (at least within the state of Massachusetts), and everybody seemed to know everything there was to know.  I suspect that with so few entertainment venues, gossip was everybody's hobby.  As you said, Sawyer was a fairly near neighbor, so he probably kept his ear to the ground on Second Street.

I've wondered if Abby was the one who sold vinegar.  I know lots of women back then (and for decades afterward) used to earn their spending money by making and selling whatever they could.  One of my grandmothers raised chickens and sold them and their eggs.  (She lived on a farm.)  The other one, who lived in town, made dresses and altered clothing for the women in town, which not only kept her in pin money but assured a steady supply of -- what else? -- gossip.


3. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by Susan on Jun-16th-03 at 11:49 PM
In response to Message #1.

Well, from my search on the internet, it seems that vinegar can be made from any sort of fruit juice or grain or even wood!  We know the Bordens had pears and grapes growing in the backyard.  Were there apple trees on the farm?  I'm curious if the Bordens actually made the vinegar themselves, as from what I was reading, the old fashioned way of making it was in wood barrels.  Another of Andrew's money making ideas?  Abby being a frugal housewife, taking fruit that was otherwise not saleable and putting it to a use? 


4. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by harry on Jun-17th-03 at 12:01 AM
In response to Message #1.

The vinegar barrels ... I had never given much thought to those before. It would be nice to know what the Borden's used to make their vinegar.

I looked around the web and ran across this page which describes the making of vinegar:

http://www.versatilevinegar.org/

One of the lines from that site says "Vinegar can be made from any fruit, or from any material containing sugar."  A number of different fruits are mentioned but nothing about pears. Perhaps Andy had produce brought from the farms.

It is apparaently a matter of timing to produce a usable product.

"But the principle remains unchanged - fermentation of natural sugars to alcohol and then secondary fermentation to vinegar."


5. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by harry on Jun-17th-03 at 12:03 AM
In response to Message #3.

Looks like I was searching while you were typing Susan. 


6. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by Tina-Kate on Jun-17th-03 at 12:26 AM
In response to Message #5.

Interesting.  I always just assumed that's what they used the grapes for...seeing as they weren't the type to make homemade wine.


7. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by harry on Jun-17th-03 at 12:40 AM
In response to Message #6.

Good point Tina-Kate, there was that grape arbor.  Also didn't Southard Miller have an apple orchard across the street?

We don't know much about what they grew on the farms. It would be like Andy to use whatever they had excess of.


8. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by Susan on Jun-17th-03 at 12:02 PM
In response to Message #5.

  You know what they say about great minds thinking alike.


9. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by rays on Jun-17th-03 at 7:48 PM
In response to Message #7.

I suspect that shrewd, thrifty Andy made a good deal on spoiled apple cider. Didn't Henry Hawthorne (in AR Brown's book) mention the special care needed in cleaning barrels to prevent vinegar?


10. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by rays on Jun-17th-03 at 7:50 PM
In response to Message #3.

I understand that vinegar, unless produced commercially, resulted from cider going bad UNINTENTIONALLY.  You get more for cider and wine than vinegar.


11. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by Susan on Jun-18th-03 at 12:14 AM
In response to Message #10.

Since it seems that all the Bordens were teetotalers, I can't imagine them making wine or hard cider to sell.  Isn't part of making wine the tasting of it?  Somehow I can't see Andrew doing that. 


12. "Re: the vinegar vendor and the man from Providence"
Posted by rays on Jun-19th-03 at 9:52 AM
In response to Message #11.

Being a teetotaller does NOT prevent an Andy from making money!!!
"Whatever it takes."