1. "Addie, do come over ..."
Posted by harry on Nov-20th-03 at 10:57 AM

When Lizzie called over to Addie Churchill she referred to her as Mrs. Churchill and not Addie. Addie when she spoke to Lizzie called her Lizzie.

Addie was only 1 year older than Emma and a next door neighbor the entire time the Borden's lived at 92 Second.  I would have thought that they would have been more friendly with each other and on a first name basis.

Was it the social custom of the time to always refer to a widow or married woman by the title Mrs.?

Definitely.  She was also the former mayor's daughter, which would have given her additional status.

Lizzie being younger & unmarried, that gave Mrs. Churchill the right to call her by her 1st name.

In fact, Emma calling Abby by her 1st name would have been considered highly disrespectful.

Yes.  In her testimony, Emma always refers to her as Mrs. Borden.  Perhaps she called her Abby in the home as a compromise.  She was in fourteen when Abby came to live with them.  Maybe "mother" didn't feel right -- and "Mrs. Borden" seemed too formal.  So they settled on Abby?

...the new Mrs. Borden may have told young Emma to "Call me Abby!" when she became a step-mother.

This is what Emily Post, dictator of proper etiquette, has to say about that:

"In speaking about other people, one says “Mrs.,” “Miss” or “Mr.” as the case may be. It is bad form to go about saying “Edith Worldly” or “Ethel Norman” to those who do not call them Edith or Ethel, and to speak thus familiarly of one whom you do not call by her first name, is unforgivable. It is also effrontery for a younger person to call an older by her or his first name, without being asked to do so. Only a very underbred, thick-skinned person would attempt it.   
  Also you must not take your conversation “out of the drawing-room.” Operations, ills or personal blemishes, details and appurtenances of the dressing-room, for instance, are neither suitable nor pleasant topics, nor are personal jokes in good taste.

From this site, its wonderful if you want a taste of old manners:
http://www.bartleby.com/95/

Inquest
Lizzie
52+
Q. Your usual address was Mrs. Borden?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did your sister Emma call her mother?
A. She always called her Abby from the time she came into the family.
Q. Is your sister Emma older than you?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What is her age?
A. She is ten years older than I am. She was somewhere about fourteen when she came there.
............
I was intrigued by Diana's post, and went looking to see who called her Abby, at least in testimony.
No one did except Hiram Harrington.
I started thinking about he and Abby being *outsiders* marrying into that family and that might give them a special affinity.
We don't know what Hiram's relationship was with Abby, but his wife was ill at the time of the murders and after, and Lizzie seems to have despised Uncle Hiram as much as Abby.
That might be for the same reasons...

Anyway, you'd think Andrew would make an effort to be pleasant to his only sibling's husband!  Maybe there was something not-quite-right going on?

Rules Of Etiquette, c. 1900

"THE CARDS USED.

The first season of the young lady, it is proper that her name should appear on her cards as "Miss Ford," if she is the eldest unmarried daughter. But if she, have older sisters at home, she is "Miss Maude A. Ford." After her first season, she has a separate card, and is fairly entitled to all the privileges of the fascinating world of society.

Never be the last to leave a party if you can possibly avoid it. You should always thank your hostess for the pleasure the evening has afforded you".

--I recall posting about Ladies names in a family where there are 2 unmarried sisters, and that my understanding was that the elder sister's name would be "Miss Borden", and the next in age would be "Miss Lizzie".
I finally found a source.

So, based on Emily Post, age is a/the major factor. I think Lizzie would be the type to hold to rules of etiquette even under severe stress.

At one time Addie, Emma and Lizzie, and Alice Russell lived next door to each other at 90, 92 and 96 Second Street respectively. Alice moved to 96 Second in 1878 when she was 26.  Emma would have been 27 and Addie 28. Lizzie would have been 18.

In 1878 Addie was still married but her husband died in February 1879.

The three led quite different lives.  Addie had been married and had  a child, Emma was shy and withdrawn with little interests and Alice had the responsibility of supporting herself and her mother. I guess all that kept these 3 from becoming closer.


(Message last edited Nov-21st-03  7:39 AM.)

That's a good point, Harry, about the difference in the lives of the three women.  And I'm sure those differences would have played a larger part in Victorian society than they would today.

I've been thinking about the principals and their ages, lately.  And going back to the time when Morse lived with the Bordens for a year.  If my math is correct -- John would have been 42 at that time, Emma 25, and Lizzie only 15. 

That may explain why Morse and Emma continued to correspond over the years -- they were both adults during that visit.  And, at least for me, helps provide a innocent explanation for John's claim that he didn't remember receiving even one letter from Lizzie.

Also I'm still speculating about Miss Davis and the June ride.  John was 59 on that occasion -- Emma 42 -- how old would Miss Davis have been, I wonder?  John refers to William A. Davis  as "the old man" in his inquest testimony. (I'm presuming Miss Davis was Isaac D. Davis's sister.) 

I still catch the hint of a romance there.  Maybe the "in haste" note to the Davis place had something to do with her?  My suspicion about these two is just based on John's insertion of this episode into his testimony.  It had nothing to do with the Borden case -- but he seemed to want to let everyone know he'd taken Miss Davis out and brought her home "after dark".

I'm probably just imagining things here ... 

Doesn't this assume equal status? What if a difference in status? Like calling hired men by their first name? What if last name non-English and unpronouncable?

Harry and Diana, thanks for putting the age thing in perspective.
Lizzie was really so much younger than these key people (family/friends). I wonder if she always felt left out, the baby,
ignored or whatever?  I have to disagree with Harry though, I think
Lizzie was probably not a poster girl for Emily Post and was a rebel
type at heart, although put up the required front and resented it.

She is 101 years older than I, and I can't bring myself to call her Addie, only Mrs. Churchill.

Abby* and Hiram Harrington as friendly, so that he calls her Abby, is pretty interesting.  I wish we knew more about him.

*(I think I call her Abby instead of Mrs. Borden to differentiate between the 2 Mrs. Borden.)

Yes, that sounds about right.  Mrs. Churchill could call Lizzie by her first name as she was the elder, but, Lizzie couldn't reciprocate unless Mrs. Churchill instructed her to call her Addie.


Ray, we have evidence of what was done in that case; Lizzie refered to or called Bridget by her name or "Maggie", Bridget in turn called her Miss Lizzie.  Yet, in court, Bridget was always refered to as Miss Sullivan.

That is the proper procedure. I'm sure that H H Holmes ? was referred to as "Doctor Holmes". Innocent until proven guilty.