Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden Topic Name: Bridget's Nap

1. "Bridget's Nap"
Posted by augusta on Dec-28th-03 at 1:13 PM

This is a direct quote of Bridget, from "Victorian Vistas", Volume 2, page 339:

"... At the time Miss Lizzie came down stairs I went to one of the upper rooms to finish the window washing.  I remained there until Miss Lizzie's cries attracted my attention, then I came down and went for Dr. Bowen.  I never saw any one enter or leave the house."

Bridget soon said this was not the case at all - that she had gone upstairs to take a nap "without removing any of my clothing ... I heard the city hall clock strike 11 ...."  (movie quotes again - I vote that it be considered a source document    ).

I always thought that she just didn't want to appear lazy to the public by taking a nap before the 'noon meal'.  But was it an outright lie?  If so, why lie?  Because if she was lying down - which she claimed to not have fallen asleep - she might have heard Andrew's murder take place?  Come on - a guy getting thwacked with an axe is gonna have one good scream in him.  Or at least there'd be noise in the murderer going at it. 

I never did think he was asleep when it happened.  I think he was sitting up on the couch and toppled over.


2. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by njwolfe on Dec-29th-03 at 8:00 AM
In response to Message #1.

I agree with you Augusta about Andrew sitting up when
thwacked, it you look at this pix on couch, doesn't it look
like there is something else right under his right arm, a
rectangular shape?  it kind of sticks out over the cushion,
what is it?  If he were laying down, wouldn't he remove this?
  It seems the newspaper accounts have Bridget washing another
window in her room.  She admits to going up to rest though. 


3. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by rays on Dec-29th-03 at 11:52 AM
In response to Message #1.

I also agree. But I would not claim that Andy screamed w/o first hand experience. Anyone here fell a cow or pig with an axe? Do they make much noise? Would any blow to the head that knocks someone senseless result in anything more than a gasp?


4. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by MarkHinton63 on Dec-30th-03 at 10:57 AM
In response to Message #3.

I would think that would be true only if the first blow brought instant death.


5. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by augusta on Dec-30th-03 at 11:52 AM
In response to Message #3.

Gosh, Rays.  A pig or a cow doesn't know that's an axe coming at him and what it could do to him.  If Andrew was sitting up, he could have seen the person coming at him.  I woulda cried out.  Big time. 

Bridget later "admitted" to laying down.  She didn't say that at first.  I didn't think anything of this before.  But it would be a good idea for her to change her story in that way, if she did know something about it.  If I were writing a screenplay, I'd write this part like this.


6. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by Bob Gutowski on Dec-30th-03 at 12:42 PM
In response to Message #5.

As I've mentioned in another area, I dreamt last night i was in a larger, more ornate, chock-full of stuff Borden House, and I enacted the "Andrew was sitting up and reading the paper" scenario.

Therefore, perhaps he didn't even see the first blow coming, and instaed of a scream, produced those "groans" that Lizzie spoke of...once.  

(Message last edited Dec-30th-03  12:42 PM.)


7. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by rays on Dec-30th-03 at 1:06 PM
In response to Message #4.

Actually, the first blow on the head could have knocked the person unconscious, preventing any noise. I doubt that Lizzie in the back yard could have heard a groan w/ closed windows and the location of that room. (Unless Lizzie was eavesdropping outside one of the sitting room windows?)


8. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by rays on Dec-30th-03 at 1:07 PM
In response to Message #5.

I think that Andy would have instinctively raised his arms against the blow, and suffered "defense wounds" on his hands or arms. He must have had his eyes closed. Or what?


9. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by njwolfe on Dec-30th-03 at 6:24 PM
In response to Message #8.

That is one of the biggest mysteries, why no defense wounds.  Had to
be someone they knew to approach that close and SURPRISE! 


10. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by augusta on Dec-30th-03 at 10:33 PM
In response to Message #9.

What a dream, Bob G! 

The only time I dreamed about the Borden case was - and this is true now - and don't laugh - well, okay, but it's serious stuff to me.
It was when I went out to Fall River last spring, and I had broken my knee half-way thru my stay and was laid up in my hotel room and on pills for this bad bronchial virus I came down with at the same time + pain killers for my knee.  I had already done my work at the FRHS.  Anyway, I dreamed that me and Michael Martins were engaged, and we had had some fight and broke up and one of us was trying to chase the other one to make up.  (I'll bet it was me that did the chasing...)
NICE dream.  REAL nice dream.  Wish I woulda caught him, tho. 

I thought Abby had defense wounds.  She did try to cover her face and got backed into the corner, they thought, right?  They said she saw her murderer.

Yes, Rays, the first blow could have knocked Andrew out. It's possible there was not much noise.  It's tough to believe, tho.

I was thinking about my house.  I have a "cellar" and an upstairs.  And if someone came in and did all that with two adult females around the premises if a stranger could have gotten away without being seen or heard by either.

I thought that nowadays, my kids would be in their rooms with their stereos blasting away and wouldn't have heard anything.  But in 1892 Lizzie didn't have any such distractions.  If I was washing windows outdoors, I probably wouldn't have heard Abby.  If I was laying down in a third floor room, would I have heard any of Andrew's murder?  I'm thinking three floors is a bit too far to hear much.  Did Bridget have her door closed?  That's a good question.  I don't know the answer to that.  Did their screen door go "BANG!"?

As Bob G. says, Lizzie did say she heard "a groan" but changed her story later.  She also said she heard a "scraping sound" that's puzzling.  Again, she changed her story on that. 


11. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by Kat on Dec-30th-03 at 10:34 PM
In response to Message #5.

Evening Standard, Wednesday, Aug. 10, 1892 pages 2 & 3.

(What the press reported Bridget said at the Inquest-

"The Inquest Begun."

"... "The first question put to her was in regard to her whereabouts all through the morning of Thursday up to the time of the murder.  She answered that she had been doing her regular work in the kitchen on the first floor.  She had washed the breakfast dishes.  She saw Miss Lizzie pass through the kitchen after breakfast time and the young lady might have passed through again.  Bridget continued that she had finished up her work downstairs and resumed window washing on the third floor, which had been begun the preceding day.  She might have seen Mrs. Borden as she went upstairs; she could hardly remember.  Mr. Borden had already left the house.

The witness went up into the third floor, and while washing windows talked down to the sidewalk with a friend.  She went on with the windows and might have made considerable noise as she raised and lowered them.  She heard no noise inside the house in the meantime.  By-and-by she heard Miss Lizzie Borden call her.  She answered at once and went down stairs.  Miss Borden didn’t tell her what the matter was when she called her.  Bridget said she went down stairs to the first floor, not thinking of looking about on the second floor, where Mrs. Borden was found dead shortly afterwards, because there was nothing to make her look around as she obeyed Miss Lizzie's call.  She found Mr. Borden dead and Lizzie at the door of the room." ....




12. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by augusta on Dec-30th-03 at 10:50 PM
In response to Message #11.

Gee, that's quite a yarn that was spun.  I guess we need to ask ourselves, did Bridget make all that up, or did the reporter?
If it was Bridget, she says she was not only washing windows but she was making all kinds of noise up there.  Noises to the point that she could not hear anything over them - yelling down to the sidewalk; banging windows up or down.  If Bridget said all that, that is very, very suspicious.


13. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by Kat on Dec-31st-03 at 6:11 AM
In response to Message #10.

Abby had no defense wounds unles we count her turning her back on her killer after the first flap-wound to her face/ear/scalp area.
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/CrimeLibrary/AutopsyAbbyBorden.htm

I have recently been hearing the Borden house described as 2 and a half stories.  Bridget's room is in the 1/2 story attic, and Andrew dead on the first floor, means she was only a story and a half away from the scene, not 3.  I still don't know what one might hear.

It's been always proposed that Bridget made up the first story of window-washing in that upper part so as not to appear idle.  But her testimony tells us right out she got to rest after her morning work was done and that was usual.  It's hard to know what to believe, but I have a feeling that Bridget pretty much had free reign.  That she wasn't dogged by Abby as to her usual chores.  For instance breakfast.  Bridget is asked what time the Borden's usually ate breakfast and she basically says when it's ready they show up.

Prelim
Bridget
7
Q.  What was the usual time of eating breakfast in that family?
A.  Mr. and Mrs. Borden always ate when it was ready, when they were down.


(Message last edited Dec-31st-03  6:13 AM.)


14. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by rays on Dec-31st-03 at 11:55 AM
In response to Message #5.

I read once of a pig slaughter at the local agricultural college. Pigs are the smartest mammals around, after humans and before dogs.
They KNOW something is wrong when they are tied around a rear leg and lifted off the ground!!! They "squeal like a stuck pig".


15. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by rays on Dec-31st-03 at 11:56 AM
In response to Message #9.

I suggest they "never expected it". Someone who has been the butt of jokes for years, and disrespected, just may rebel at some point.

Anyone remember Bastille Day?


16. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by rays on Dec-31st-03 at 11:58 AM
In response to Message #10.

Don't forget that Second Street had plenty of horse-drawn traffic.
Anyone remember the clip-clop sounds from horses and the creaks from wagons?

Not since around 1950 for me. Or am I remembering it as I would like to?


17. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by william on Dec-31st-03 at 12:25 PM
In response to Message #9.

Only one explanation presents itself, NJ:
"They didn't see it coming!"


18. "Re: Bridget's Nap"
Posted by Kat on Dec-31st-03 at 6:46 PM
In response to Message #16.

We have horse-drawn carriage rides in Downtown Orlando and it is pretty slow and not very noisy.
Also we saw that in Charleston and that was not so noisy.  Maybe it was the roads back then?  There probably was a difference.
Anyway, you could smell that horse a block away!

I suppose we have a lot of noise in our envoirnment to which we are used, but I'd think they had a lot of a different kinds of noise in the 1890's.
Same for smells.
If I had to choose between truck-idle smell of deisel, and really potent horse smell, I think eventually I would get used to the horse.