1. "Those guest room chores"
Posted by Harry on Apr-9th-04 at 6:43 PM

Emma's testimony at the Inquest raises a question as to why was Abby doing the straightening up in the guest room in the first place.  Page 108+, Emma being questioned by Knowlton:

"Q.  Did you have, yourself, any particular duty in connection with the house?
A.  Some things I always did.
Q.  What were they?
A.  I always took charge of the parlor, my sister and I, we always took charge of the guest chamber and our own rooms.
Q.  That is, you and your sister did that?
A.  Yes Sir.
Q.  Not your separate duty, but yours and hers?
A.  I did most of it, sometimes she assisted.
Q.  Did your mother never have charge of the guest chamber?
A.  I did not know that she ever did. When I was home I dont think she ever did.
Q.  You dont know how it happened that she was having the work of the guest chamber on this morning that she died?
A.  No Sir."

In Emma absence I would assume Lizzie would have inherited that duty and not Abby.  There was some talk (never substantiated to my knowledge) that Abby was expecting company and that was the reason she took on that chore.

Yes, I've always wondered why more was not made of Lizzie's inquest testimony that Abby expected company on Monday. Although I guess it became a non-issue after the murders.   

"She said she had been up and made the bed up fresh, and had dusted the room and left it all in order. She was going to put some fresh pillow slips on the small pillows at the foot of the bed, and was going to close the room, because she was going to have company Monday and she wanted everything in order." (Lizzie Borden: Inquest)

Victoria Lincoln suggests Lizzie fabricated this to explain why she didn't see Abby's body.

Well, either Abby knew that with Emma gone, Lizzie would be too lazy to fix up the guest room by herself and decided to take on the chore herself, company or no company.  Or, Lizzie lured Abby up there on the pretext that with Emma gone, it was too much work for her to do alone.  "Mrs. Borden, do you think you can help me straighten up the guest room this morning?  I'm feeling poorly and the mattress needs turning and you do such a nice job with those hospital corners on the sheets.  Pretty please?  You will!  Thank you, perhaps you could go up and get started while I have some breakfast?"

Once Lizzie had Abby up in her domain and away from Bridget she could easily whack her.  Bridget never did give the conversation that Abby and Lizzie had in the dining room, just that Lizzie spoke civilly to Abby. 

Susan, I was thinking those exact two reasons.  I think it may very well have been a combination of the two. Abby may also have wanted to see what sort of a mess Uncle John left the room.

Diana makes a good point on why Lizzie was not questioned further on that point.  The prosecution may not have known at the time they were questioning Lizzie that she (Lizzie) and Emma normally took care of the guest room.  I believe Emma's Inquest testimony came after they had finished questioning Lizzie.  The significance of it may not have dawned upon them because it wasn't raised at the Trial.  For some unknown reason Emma did not testify at the Preliminary Hearing.

Yes, I too have always wondered why Emma was never questioned in the Preliminaries?  She stated that she was ill during the Inquest but not with what and because of that, she was not asked as many questions as they had wished to ask her.  I would think she was a most important witness and that they have her back. 

Wednesday after dinner, August 10, Emma Borden and John V. Morse were summoned to appear before the district attorney, and Mrs. Churchill, as well.
I have to keep reminding myself that these people were not normally known to the police, nor especially to Knowlton.
He came to town Monday night I think, was met and given the witness statements, talked the crime over with officials and Tuesday got to work questioning people.
For some reason, Emma was accorded deep respect.  Maybe her demeanor was more one of grief and nerves than Lizzie and because she *acted appropriately*, Emma was dismissed as not a vital witness?
Anyway, because it was an Inquest into the death, the official's mission was to find out how the couple died and possibly by whom.
Since Emma was away, it would seem that her testimony would be useless to them (they might think), except as to everyday relations in the family.

The question might be more :  Why was Emma called before the inquest?

I have always thought that since she did not need to testify at the inquest, she was let off from the preliminary- and so probably she volunteered to testify at the trial, at least after Alice went to the grand jury with the dress-burning story.  I think she wanted to be a defense witness.  She was paying 1/2, after all- she had invested in a not-guilty verdict.  She showed herself to be strong at the trial.

As to why Abby was in that room- I've thought all Lizzie would have had to do was nothing, as usual.  Meaning if she had not attempted to start the clean-up of the room, she may have known Abby would get busy right away as soon as Morse left.

Emma was one of the last ones to testify at the Inquest on the 10th. She did appear to be the sickest one at the arrest of Lizzie. Lizzie was her cool self.  Way to go Liz!

I think Emma tried to portray Lizzie better than she was.  She may have testified that Lizzie did more around the house than she really did in order to make her appear better.

JVM was less than fastidious.  No change of clothes, not even a toothbrush!  I know what I would do if such a man stayed in my home... As soon as he left I would run up the stairs as if the hounds of hell were nipping at my heals and clean up the room!

Lucky for me, I have Lysol and FeBreeze!  Poor Abby!

Interesting... I almost get the impression reading that block of testimony that Emma is really doing sister Lizzie no favors at all - not in what she's saying but rather in the way she says it.

A. I always took charge of the parlor, my sister and I, we   always took charge of the guest chamber ...
Q. Not your separate duty, but yours and hers?
A. I did most of it, sometimes she assisted.
Q. Did your mother never have charge of the guest chamber?
A. I did not know that she ever did. When I was home I dont think she ever did.

We did...everything - because Lizzie herself...of her own accord would...do nothing?? It also sounds like Emma and Lizzie did the chores together, sure - when Lizzie felt like it.

The last statement - of course Abby never had charge of the guest chamber when Emma was around, but...Emma was...in Fairhaven that morning, right??

Doug

My point is more that Emma wouldn't know what was going on at home if she wasn't there.
Since Emma was always there she did the little extra work.
Emma couldn't know what Lizzie did or did not do while she, Emma, was in Fairhaven, in one of her very few excursions away from home.

I think it sounds like she is being truthful, to start, hears how it sounds and adds "we".

Although the guest room was upstairs in the front of the house, part of Emma and Lizzie's area, it was used by Abby and Andrew's guests, too. Perhaps it was understood that Abby would straighten up the guest room after her or Andrew's guests had stayed there. Didn't Abby have and use a sewing machine in the guest room, too?

My suggestion is that JVM never expected to stay the night. He went to the farm that afternoon to arrange a meeting later or the next day.
Have you ever gone somewhere to visit relatives and stayed longer than you expected?

As I remember it, Abby was called away by that note. So she went upstairs to get a better shawl or dress, and discovered (smelled?) someone in the guest room. You know the rest.

Are there any other sources that say Abby expected company on Monday?  If it's just in Lizzie's testimony, then it could be a lie. 

It is very strange that this "company" was never revealed.  Word would have gotten out who the company was, I think, and some reporter would have picked up on it.  "Abby's Company Grief Stricken by Murder".  They wrote about everything else - and even stuff that never happened at all.  This would have been a scoop.

I never realized that the guest room was the girls' area.  Of course it was!  They entertained their friends up there, remember? 

And Bridget would not be coming in there, would she. ... How convenient.  It didn't happen in Lizzie's room.  Or Emma's.  But in the guest room. 

Well, after Morse slept in there those sheets woulda had to come off first thing, whether Abby had company coming or not. 

Interesting question - would it be up to Abby or up to Lizzie to clean up in there after Morse spent the night?  He visited with Abby and Andrew.  But he was Lizzie's blood uncle, and it was her domain.  Did Lizzie play the "summer complaint" card, so Abby did it for her?  Maybe that's what Lizzie was saying to Abby - and not talking about if Lizzie wanted any meat for dinner. 

Now that right there would be a lie, right?  About Abby asking Lizzie if she wanted any meat for dinner?  Because dinner was all planned - they were having mutton soup and other unmentionables.  Unless "dinner" in this case was supper, in the evening.  But every other time they talked about the "noon meal" they would say "dinner". 

Andrew asks Morse:  "John, will you come back to dinner with us?" That's not a direct quote, but he did say "dinner". 

Did the family always use the word "dinner" for lunch?  Did they never say "dinner" for the supper meal?  That makes a difference, which meal Lizzie said Abby was asking about.  I always took it to be "supper", but maybe Lizzie tripped herself up here.

Was Abby's sewing machine in the guest room or in the dressing room?  I think, but I'm not sure, that it was in the guest room.  (Sounds like Knowlton questioning and Lizzie answering...) 

I didn't realize that Emma didn't testify at the Prelim.  It seems odd to me.  But she really wasn't needed, was she, until Alice "Turncoat" Russell came out with the Burning Dress Testimony at the Grand Jury hearing.  Looks like Mr. Jennings or Robinson put Emma up there to neutralize Alice's scorching words. 

Isn't it funny how Emma seemed so withdrawn and quiet.  But she was able to get up there and testify like she did at the trial?  She must have been pretty strong to have done that.  In the papers, I don't recall it being said that she appeared nervous.  I have assumed she must have been just a-flutter, but maybe that wasn't so. 

That was an interesting post Augusta.

Made me think about Bridget's access to the guest room.  Just speculating, but maybe Bridget was allowed to use the sewing machine in there.  She said she was going to "have one" (a bolt of cloth from Sargents) so is there a possibility she made her own dresses. Were the Borden's that tolerant to allow her to use it?

I would think Bridgett stitched her clothes by hand.

Those are good points, Harry and Augusta.  I've been reading the diary of the Point Pleasant NJ maid -1902-1905 (mentioned earlier on this forum by Nancie? Sorry if I've got that wrong.) and using it to try to flesh out Bridget's role and status in the household.

This maid talks about dinner and supper.  In the first part of her journal entries -- dinner is consistently the meal served around noon or 1 o'clock while supper seems to come at about 6 p.m.  But in an entry dated Monday, Oct. 19, 1903 -- "lunch" suddenly appears at noon. 

The entry is as follows: "Mrs. D. said she expected her sister today so we were busy all the forenoon cleaning up & Mrs. D. made pies, had a lunch at noon on potato soup and bread and butter.  For dinner tonight roast lamb, mashed potato, creamed cabbage & mustard pickle.  Miss M. came at 7 o.clock bringing a basket of grapes, a box of candy, a p'ck of new kind of coffee and some little brick-a-brac to Mrs. D.  While they were eating supper, Mrs. Knox called & things were so late in general that I didn't get through work till 9 o'clock, when I was glad to crawl in bed."

So it looks as though lunch means a light snack.  But the terms dinner and supper are just starting to get mixed up.  They were very consistent up to this point.

As far as the sewing machine goes.  It may be that Bridget was able to use the sewing machine in the guest room.  In this diary there is a passage dated Thursday 17 Dec. '03:  "Mrs. D. called to me as I was passing her room & showed me her machine needle asking how I had been breaking the thread & said this was the 3rd needle she had found either bent or with a blunt end.  I thought I'd better let it alone after this so took my sewing home & made Lizzie a pair of overall match scratchers on Ma's machine."

Later in that same entry she writes: "Mrs. D. sat at the machine & Irene between the bureau & bed..."  So obviously their sewing machine was in a bedroom as well.  I guess, as Harry says, it would depend on the relationship between the Bordens and Bridget. That's one of the reasons this diary is so fascinating... it provides a real sense of the relationship between the maid and her employers.

The Diaries of Adelia Goble:  A Maid's View of Point Pleasant, N.J.
1902-1905 Ocean County Historical Society, 2000.

Sewing machines had been commonly available in America for more than 40 years by 1892. The fact that Andrew allowed one in his home attests to the fact that it was considered a necessity, not a luxury. Hand sewing is/was extremely time consuming. Having a sewing machine available, I doubt that Abby would require another woman in the house sew her own clothes, even the maid.

I think the testimony about sewing dresses earlier that year is that a dressmaker came over and spent 3 days there in the spring. Lizzie had that dress made before it was smeared with paint.

The talk about the note (I believe it) and Andy inviting JVM back to dinner (I don't believe it) came from the survivors who made up a story to cover the presence of WSB. IMO
The note, because it would bring (lure?) Abby upstairs to the clothes closet and then out of the house so Andy would have privacy for an 11am meeting.
Note the invitation, since Lizzie sent Dr Bowen out to bring JVM back; this would not be needed if JVM was to return by noon. Also the lack of baggage suggests short stay. IMO

Wow Diana, you read the diary also, I'm impressed with that.
I wish we could reprint it for all.

Dinner was always at noon in Vermont.  The guys brought their "dinner pail" to work. I'm sure Dinner was always the noon meal in the East
anyway.  Maybe that is the time though that the word "lunch" came about, and Dehlia was hip to it?  Diana I'm so curious, where did you
find the diary?

Post #17:  "The Diaries of Adelia Goble:  A Maid's View of Point Pleasant, N.J.
1902-1905 Ocean County Historical Society, 2000."


Stef  & I didn't get ours yet, tho we want to.  We find it very interesting.
.........

I used to think Abby getting the meat didn't necessarilly mean for that day.  Bridget wasn't aware of it, anyway.  She knew just when she wanted to arise from her lie-down to get ready to start dinner, Thursday.  That didn't include an adjustment for extra time or fire in the stove for a new cut of meat.
I don't know if it's a true slip-up, or lie or whatever...  it could be- because something went on in that house that day and we don't know what and I always thought Lizzie was telling things that she was used to doing, rather than what really went on.



(Message last edited Apr-11th-04  7:49 PM.)

Hi Nancie -- I got mine from the Ocean County Historical Society.

For anyone who's interested in getting a copy -- here's the link.  Just click on publications.  It costs $15 (plus shipping, I guess).

http://www.oceancountyhistory.org/Home%20Page/home.htm#hours

That is great Diana, thanks for making it available, I didn't know
you could buy it, I read an old copy of my boss's Mother.