1. "Grover Cleveland"
Posted by njwolfe on Oct-25th-03 at 4:26 PM

I was wondering if the Borden's had a political bent. Did Andrew
vote Republican or Democrat?  Did they discuss politics?  Victoria
Lincoln gives us a good glimpse at Fall River in that day, but not
behind closed doors, what did they talk about? 
In our Republican family, we always talked about politics, my
Grandmother gave me her "I LIKE IKE" button.  I wonder if Andy was
concerned about politics, as a severe depression was going on in
1892. Was he worried?  Did he share his stress with the family?
  Grover Cleveland, a democrat, was campaigning for President in 1892, the big issue of the day was Tariffs. Grover stood for low
tariffs and Harrison for high, favoring the farmers over the
merchants.  In an acute depression, with Andrew's financial holdings,
I wonder if he was affected by politics.  He must have been! 
  Harrison won the election but his wife died and Grover took office,
for his second non-consecutive term, he was the only Democrat since
the Civil War.  Maybe Andrew was a staunch Republican and was bothered
by this Democrat?  His world was far wider than the confines of Second
Street and women troubles in his own home. 
  We concentrate on Lizzie (wouldn't she love that) but if you
put yourself in that house at that time, it surely wasn't all about
Lizzie. 
  There were more things going on at that time in the country and
I think Andrew was a part of a larger world. 

We tend to view the Borden family from the narrow but deep perspective of what happened at their home on the morning of August 4, 1892. Andrew viewed the world from the perspective of what happened before August 4, 1892. I think Andrew, an astute and successful businessman, must have been well aware of what was going on in the nation and the world. While his investments appear to have been "local" in nature (Fall River mills, banks, and real estate) the markets for the mills were national if not international. Anything which had an impact on these markets (economic policy, military action, political activity) should have been of interest to him. I don't recall ever reading a reference to Andrew's personal political preferences, however.

Grover Cleveland (Democrat) served his first term as president from 1885-1889. He was defeated for re-election in 1888 (Cleveland won the popular vote but lost the electoral vote) by Benjamin Harrison (Republican) who served as president from 1889-1893. Harrison's first wife, Caroline, died in 1892 shortly before her husband lost his re-election bid to Grover Cleveland. Cleveland served his second presidential term from 1893-1897.

In Victorian Vistas, vol. II, July 20, 1892, there are headlines:
" 'CLEVE AND STEVE'.
THE GREAT DEMOCRAT LEADERS IN TOWN.
PLEASANT INTERVIEW WITH THEM LAST EVENING
THEY TAKE THE STEAMER PILGRIM EN ROUTE TO NEW YORK CITY."

"The men who ought to be and will be the next President and Vice President of the United States passed through this city last night enroute to New York.

Tonight in the presence of thousands at Madison Square Garden they will be tendered a Democratic nomination and thenceforth Grover Cleveland and Gov. Adlai E. Stevenson of Illinois, will be public characters."...

Well, as these distinguished men arrived at the city [Fall River] to embark to New York on the steamer, .."No preparations had been made by Democrats here to welcome  or speed the parting ones, but they were met on alighting from the train by Mayor Coughlin and Editor W. Frank Kennedy from the Globe.

Both men endeavored to extend the hospitalities of the city in the best way possible...."

It sounds like the city of Fall River was underwhelmed.
That might be a clue as to the city's political leanings.
---
I was under the impression that the depression was getting a hold on Fall River in 1893, after Andrew's death.  Is this idea mistaken?

Assuming a mostly internal market for Fall River textiles, Andy would favor high tariffs to keep out foreign competition. Agree?

Grover Cleveland was also a Gold Specie Democrat, unlike the Western Silver Democrats (William Jennings Bryan for example).

That is interesting Kat.  Andrew read the Providence Journal, I
understand that is more like a business paper than the local papers,
and conservative. I'm betting he was republican in his political
views as was much of New England. 

While I have nothing to add to the political talk here, Grover Cleveland's birthplace was in my hometown in New Jersey.  You can click on this link and you will get one of those 360 degree viewers where you can see the house.  If you look to the left you can see the church I went to every Sunday as a girl and to the left of the church is the Catholic school I went to.
http://www.newjerseyhomes.com/ipix/groverc.htm

Theres another site here, but, the pictures aren't showing.
http://www.caldwellnj.com/grover.htm

Heres a postcard view of the house circa 1902:


A Washington Souvenir card from 1887:


There are more of these great photos on this site:
http://www.westessexguide.com/gcb/ph.htm 

WOW thanks!
Were you really excited to find that your church was there for us to see?
That is so cool.
You are really good at finding stuff!

I grew up with that house for most of my childhood years being right next door to my school.  We went on a class trip there, the thing that stands out most in my mind was the piece of moldy, crumbly wedding cake of Grover's that they have on display there.  I guess it would be like seeing moldy mutton roast that was eaten the day of the Borden murders, so weird!  And yes, it was cool to share part of my hometown and its history with the gang, I kind of took it for granted after awhile.  But, thats New Jersey, chock full of history.

BTW, I have pictures from that class trip somewhere.  I should find them and see if I can post them, then you all can really get a laugh seeing me in my Catholic uniform, plaid and saddle shoes! 

Pretty neat website!  It was like looking at it in 3D. 

What I remember most about NJ are the Palisades along the Hudson. Living in Yonkers we had a magnificent view of their whole length.  Seeing ships go up and down the Hudson against the backdrop of the Palisades was a sight to see. Crossing the river on the Alpine Ferry (before they built the Tappan Zee bridge) they rose up higher and higher as you neared the Jersey shore. Fond memories. 

I think the best view of Manhattan from any direction is from the Palisades looking south/southeast. It is better than the view from any of the tall buildings (like the Empire State) or from the bridges (like the Whitestone) or the harbor.

Right you are Doug.  The best panoramic views of NYC are from the Jersey side.  The Circle Line boats that make the trip around Manhattan Island are also worthwhile taking.

The Empire State building is fun but since you are essentially looking down much of the view is lost.

Grover Cleveland married his partner's daughter. I wonder what people would say in today's world, a 50? yr old man marrying 21 yr old girl?
We do know what Grover did in Buffalo in his spare time.

My family once went to the now defunct Palisades Park when I was a girl.  I recall the view was quite spectacular from the ferris wheel.  My favorite memories are of seeing New York across the water at night, just breathtaking. 

Thanks Susan for interesting Grover link, his house looks
beautiful. (Really old wedding cake on display?) 
The rare times I get into NYC, I like taking the ferry and seeing
the sights from the water.  (Although after the recent ferry crash...
maybe not such a great idea!)

You're welcome.  Yes, a piece of his wedding cake, it was under this bell jar thing from what I recall and was just plain nasty looking.  I don't recall much else that we saw there, but, I guess thats what sticks in a 8 year old's mind. 

Shades of Miss Havisham!

  Yes, I thought that too, but, not a whole cake, just a piece.  My husband and I had saved the top of our wedding cake, it went in the freezer though, don't think they had a way of doing that in Cleveland's day. 

I would suspect that, as a businessman, Andrew was a Republican.  They were then and they are now the party that appeals to business people.  For the record, Harrison did not win in 1892.  He lost handily to Grover Cleveland in both the electoral and popular vote columns.  It was the second time Cleveland defeated him.  Cleveland won the 1888 popular vote by a wide margin over Harrison but lost in the electoral college.  Harrison did little for the nation in his four year term.  He ran through the huge surplus Cleveland left him, raised the tariff and the nation plunged into the second worst economic downturn in its history. Only the Great Depression of the 1930's was worse.  Cleveland inherited that entire mess and actually had to go to banker JP Morgan and ask for a loan for the US government. 

In any event, I would be very surprised if Andrew was a member of the Democratic Party although Cleveland, the only Democrat elected to the White House between 1850 and 1912, was socially and fiscally very conservative.  In an age of incredible political corruption and amazingly mediocre presidents, Cleveland was the only president between Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt who deserves the rank of "great."

(Message last edited Oct-28th-03  9:05 PM.)

Thanks Jim, great info.  Seems Andrew must have been Republican
yet not involved in politics. 

Grover Cleveland won the popular vote for president in three straight national elections (1884, 1888, 1892). I think Andrew Jackson (1824, 1828, 1832) and Franklin D. Roosevelt (1932, 1936, 1940, 1944) are the only other presidential candidates to do that. FDR won the electoral vote each time he ran for president while the election of 1824 was decided by the House of Representatives (John Quincy Adams was elected president) and Cleveland lost the electoral vote to Benjamin Harrison in 1888. The tariff issue dominated several national elections as well as much of American politics in general during the 1880s and 1890s. The economic depression which followed the Panic of 1893 was also a serious challenge for both dominant political parties as well as the Populist movement.

I agree that Andrew the 1880s and 1890s businessman would probably be in sympathy with the conservative Republican goals and values of that era (a simple example could be that high tariffs are needed to protect domestic manufacturing). But his political awareness may have developed long before that; local issues, too, can be important in shaping a person's political sympathies. His family's (prior generations) political leanings may also have influenced him. By all indications Andrew Borden was a strong-minded man of definite opinions and it would be interesting to know what those opinions were on the issues of his day.

I can assure you that if Andy had the sole license for undertaking in Fall River for a time, he was involved in pay-offs to politicians. Then or now. Ditto for shutting down a street to creat his big office building. Then or now.

  As I was reading through this thread I was thinking the same thing!

Ironically Benjamin Harrison, who won the presidency from Grover Cleveland in 1888 and then lost it to Cleveland four years later, also married a much younger woman. Harrison's first wife, Caroline Scott Harrison, died in 1892 while her husband was serving as president. In 1896, three years after he left the White House, Harrison married Mary Dimmick. He was 62 and she was 37. Mary Dimmick was a widowed niece of Caroline Scott Harrison and had lived in the White House as Caroline's assistant during Harrison's term of office. It is reported that Benjamin Harrison's two adult children, who were similar in age to their new step-mother, refused to attend the wedding. Benjamin and Mary Harrison had one daughter together who was born in 1897.

Thanks Doug, I appreciate the history lesson!  Makes me wonder
if having a "stepmother" was a really bad thing back in late 1800's?
I remember my Mother telling me that she was always so humiliated
and embarrassed because her Mother was "divorced" and she had
a "stepfather".  That would have been late 1920's.  I guess Divorce
is a lot different but still I wonder impact on a child.

I think "step" parents and "half" or "step" siblings were common in the United States in the 19th century. More people (including young parents) died at younger ages and remarriages happened frequently. Conceivably (pardon the pun) Emma and Lizzie could have had a younger half-sibling after Andrew married Abby, though it did not happen. Today step-parent and half-sibling relationships are common due to divorce. Divorce was less common when I was growing up in the 1950s and 1960s; I recall my parents talking about divorce in "hushed tones" when it happened to people they knew.

The answer is "NO". Death was very common in those days, for children as well as adults.
If you look it up, you will find that many a  widower married a widow, both with children, and produced more children. Somehow they got along. G A Custer was the product of a widow and widower.

I guess the impact of death, divorce, remarriage, and step-parenting depends on the individuals involved, both children and adults, and the dynamics within the family(ies) affected. I think an adjustment like this is hard even in the "best" of circumstances and under the "worst" of circumstances it can be horrible or even impossible. I can give an opinion about this through observation of others only; fortunately I have not experienced such a situation personally.

Well, having been a child of divorce and almost a re-marriage that would have included two stepbrothers, I could give my input if anyone has any questions. 

Feel free to comment from what you know. That is one key to understanding the past.
I personally know of one relative's case where a remarriage produced a "mean and evil stepmother". She was later caught stealing from her employer!!!