1. "Did he ever return?"
Posted by harry on Nov-18th-03 at 2:32 PM

After the 1893 trial of Lizzie Borden, John Morse returned to Hastings, Iowa.

I can't find any information as to whether he ever returned to the Fall River area or whether he ever again saw or communicated with Lizzie and Emma. We know Emma used to write to him prior to the murders.  He proclaimed Lizzie's innocence all throughout the trial so there was no reason for a break over that.

Rebello, page 70, touches briefly on his travels but doesn't mention years:

"Throughout his life, Morse traveled east during the summer and winter months visiting Fall River; New Bedford; Warren, Rhode Island; and Boston. He maintained a small boat in New Bedford, and he visited friends and relatives. While in New Bedford, he would spend time at the marble shop of ex-Mayor Thomas Thompson discussing the existence of life after death." 

In a Rootsweb.com article titled "The Lizzie Borden Connection" the following item about Morse appeared:

"News of John's travels appeared regularly in the Hastings section of both the Malvern Leader and the Glenwood Opinion newspapers. The friendly feeling the community must have held for John is evidenced in this item from 25 November 1903. "The genial countenance of our old friend, John Morse, is once more seen upon the streets of Hastings after several months' visit in the east."

It doesn't say where in the east or who he visited.

(Message last edited Nov-18th-03  2:41 PM.)

I also always wondered what happened to him, and wish we knew
more about him. Was he a Henry D. Thoreau type or a horse dealer
and miserly swindler type.  We really don't know much about him but
my instints lean toward the Thoreau type. 

He shares P.T. Barnum's birthday.  I think he was a rolling stone with no real loyalties.  Being a horse dealer seems kind of like a used car dealer.  It doesn't mean he wasn't honest, but I think he could turn on the charm, or what it took to meet each situation.  i think that's why we don't know him too well, like a chamealon (sp) or just moody like a part-time hermit, yet not introspective.
He was supposedly very thrifty, as well.

We do know our Borden girls were in his will, and Emma refused it.

(Message last edited Nov-18th-03  11:39 PM.)

JVM was a trusted advisor of Andy, so he might have also been a sharp dealer in horses, etc. AR Brown compares him to a used car saleman. But, there seems to be NO BAD REPUTE associated with him, or the many writers of books would have picked this up.

Assume JVM was a typical trader of his day?

Is there any written reason why Emma refused her inheritance?

My speculation: his action bringing Wm S Borden to their home ruined their lives? (However well-intentioned it may have been.)

He must have done something to make her refuse his money.
Tina Kate always says there is loads to read between the lines in all the wills.

Who knows how accurate these things are, but in Rebello pg 77 is this --

"Hastings: John Morse started last week for his old home, Fall River, Mass.  He was accompanied as far as New York by Jamie Chapin, who will spend the summer there with relatives."  Mills County Tribune, May 7, 1903.

Also, Rebello pg 74 has this to say re Emma's share --

Emma Borden refused to accept her share of Mr. Morse's estate.  The money, as directed by probate court, was deposited in an account with the Clerk of the District Court in Mills County, Iowa.  When Emma Borden died in 1927, the executors of her estate, B.M.C. Durfee Trust Company and Mr. Preston H. Gardner, petitioned the court and county treasurer in Iowa, to have Emma's share of Mr. Morse's estate returned.  Emma's share ($606.18) was returned and included in her estate.

Sheesh.

Thanks Tina-Kate. 

Can't you just see Uncle John rapping on the door at Maplecroft. One suit, disposable shirt and no luggage.

As for the money left Emma, they should have honored her request. What's $600 in an estate of hundreds of thousands.

I agree with Harry, probably Emma just simply didn't need the lousy
600 dollars and thought she was doing someone else in the family
a favor by refusing it?  

One of the more intriguingly personal bits of Morse's testimony occurs during the Inquest when he talks about "Miss Davis".  Morse mentions her when he is asked about his trips to the Borden house during the months leading up to the murders.  He talks about an overnight stay in July, and a previous visit in June. 

"I can tell all about that time if you want me to. There was a lady came over, Mr. Davis' daughter, with me. We drove over in the afternoon.  I hired a horse, and Mr. Borden's daughter went to ride, we went down to the steam boat. I took her home after dark."  (Inquest,96)

"Q.  When Miss Davis came over, did you eat there [at the Bordens] then?
A.  Yes, we took dinner and supper." (Inquest, 97)

"Q.    . . . when Miss Davis came over with you, did you see the girls then?
A.  I saw Emma; I went to ride, I told you."  (Inquest,97)

I'm confused as to who rode what, and with whom, when he says: "I hired a horse, and Mr. Borden's daughter went to ride, we went down to the steam boat."

He never refers to this incident again as far as I can see.  So we're left with questions as to his relationship with Miss Davis -- and also Emma's relationship with Miss Davis?  Did she and Miss Davis go riding together often?  Was Emma acting as a chaperone on this occasion?

Anyone know more?  

Interesting Diana.  How odd that he calls his niece Mr. Borden's daughter.

My take is that all 3 went for a ride together.  Since she drove over with him alone she didn't think a chaperone was necessary.  He also drove her back home alone "after dark".

It would seem to indicate that Emma and Miss Davis knew each other at least to some degree. I can't believe Uncle John would just show up at the door, with Miss Davis in tow.  Sounds like, at least to some extent, it was a planned outing.  Just guessing though.

One minor point. If as Morse says they drove over to the Bordens in the afternoon, how did they eat dinner and supper at the Bordens?  Must have been a late dinner.

Evening Standard, Thursday, August 18, 1892  Page 2

"A MOTIVE FOR MURDER"

...".  Early in the case, too, the Government employed Officers John C. Parker and Frank Hathaway of this city, who have been busy on the Dartmouth end of the case, and are still engaged on it.  They have held frequent interviews with occupants of the William Davis cottage on the Smith Mills road, and have supplied many missing links.  John V. Morse visited at the cottage, and I am informed that both Miss Emma and Miss Lizzie had been there, and consulted their uncle on business, though I haven't talked with Parker or Hathaway recently and don't know just what discoveries they made.  The assumption on which the State has been proceeding, however, is that the daughters Miss Emma and Miss Lizzie learned of their father's intention through their uncle. " ...

--during a news item there was more than one Davis daughter referred to:
"A daughter" and "One of the daughters".

(Message last edited Nov-19th-03  10:40 PM.)

Does the article say when Emma and Lizzie visited Morse there?  Close enough to the murders to possibly mean something?  Like those stories that Andrew was planning on doing something that may have left Emma and Lizzie with less property or money upon his death? 

Inquest
Morse
96+
Q.  The last time you were there before this murder was when?
A.  I should think somewhere about the 10th of July.
Q.  How long did you stay then?
A.  I did not stay but a short time. I was here over night, but I went down to an Aunt’s on the Stafford Road at that time.
Q.  What is her name?
A.  Catherine Boudray.
Q.  Before that, can you recall the last time you were there?
A.  It was somewhere the last of June. I know Phebe Curry was sick at that time, she died a little afterwards, I think about the last of June.
Q.  Did you stop all night then?
A.  No Sir, came over in the morning and went back at night. I can tell all about that time if you want me to. There was a lady came over, Mr. Davis’ daughter, with me. We drove over in the afternoon. I hired a horse,  and Mr. Borden’s daughter went to ride, we went down to the steam boat. I took her home after dark.
Q.  Did you see much of Miss Lizzie when you came to the house?
A.  Sometimes; sometimes I did not see either of the girls, stayed a few minutes and talked with Mr. Borden, and went out.

--I can't tell exactly what he means.


(Message last edited Nov-19th-03  10:56 PM.)

Amazing. He came over in the morning and in the afternoon in the same answer.    With Uncle John all things are possible.