Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden Topic Name: Swansea home  

1. "Swansea home"
Posted by audrey on Mar-7th-04 at 6:54 PM

I imagine many of you have already seen this photo, but it is new to me. 

I found it here: www.swanseamass.org/history.html  on one of my weekly google searches for Lizzie.  This came up in under images.




It is a very appealing looking home and I can imagine spending the hot summer months in such a place.

I wonder what types of activities the Bordens did while here.  (Besides angling)

Did they have any help or were they "roughing it" sans Bridgette?



(Message last edited Mar-7th-04  6:57 PM.)


2. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by diana on Mar-7th-04 at 7:21 PM
In response to Message #1.

Thanks so much, Audrey.  Great photo! 

That site also has links to Bristol county census records showing Bordens, Anthonys, etc.  Does anyone know what those columns of numbers following the names are all about?


3. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-7th-04 at 10:58 PM
In response to Message #1.

We drove by there at night and it looks much the same.
Lizzie and Emma inherited a lot of property with that farm.
Later they sold a part from both sides of that street.
There was much more land than I imagined.
See Rebello's book , Land Transactions.


4. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by theebmonique on Mar-7th-04 at 11:06 PM
In response to Message #1.

Audrey, I would like to see the house in Swansea when I make the trip to Fall River, is there a map somewhere...so I don't get too lost ?


5. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by MarkHinton63 on Mar-8th-04 at 12:36 AM
In response to Message #4.

It's new to me! Personally, I think it looks (from the outside, at least) a lot nicer than the Second Street house. It seems to have a little bit more room even though it's only one story, but that's just my humble opinion. Maybe knowing what happened at 92 Second Street is colouring my viewpoint also.

I'd be interested to hear other member thoughts on this.


6. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-8th-04 at 12:43 AM
In response to Message #5.

Sherry has some nice Farm Pictures on Stef's web-site:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Galleries/FallRiverPhotologAssets/Swanzy1SC.jpg


7. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by lydiapinkham on Mar-8th-04 at 12:43 AM
In response to Message #1.



Thanks, Audrey.  Great photo!

--Lyddie


8. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by lydiapinkham on Mar-8th-04 at 12:48 AM
In response to Message #6.


It looks unchanged, except for undoubted improvements.  Thanks, Kat.  My vote goes for the Swansea home, too.  I suspect that Andrew would never have stood for living so far from business.  They'd also have to waste money on a new horse and/or shoe leather!

--Lyddie


9. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-8th-04 at 1:02 AM
In response to Message #8.

After we passed the farmhouse on the right we turned around and came past it again on our left.  When we came to an intersection, we turned right and were told that all that land for a while out right had all been part of the farm!  Whew!  That was a lot of land!
The farmhouse is on New Gardner's Neck Road, I believe.
It might be near the intersection of Gardner's Neck and New Gardner's Neck, or at least down from that crossroad.
Sherry/Augusta would know.

Rebello. pg. 50:
"Lizzie Borden Slept Here", The Spectator, Somerset, MA: July 22, 1965: 5.

"Barbara Ashton's article provides background information on the Borden's summer home in Swansea, Massachusetts. It was owned in the 1880's by Andrew Borden and William Almy who were business partners."

"Harold Hudner Shares History of Lizzie Borden's Summer Home," Spectator, Somerset, MA: May 15, 1991.

"Attorney Harold Hudner, who occupied the Borden summer home in Swansea, Massachusetts, since the 1940's, recalled the history of the home. The Cape Cod style house was built in 1790 and later purchased by Andrew Borden and William Almy from the Gardner family. It was the Borden summer home and generally referred to as, 'the farm'. Mr. Hudner did not believe Lizzie committed the murder. 'I stick up for her because I live in her house.' Mr. Hudner went on to say that the home was sold by Emma and Lizzie to the Gardner family and he bought it from Frank Gardner.

Note: Att. Hudner purchased the home in 1947."
.....
"Borden Summer Home for Sale"

"The summer home of Andrew J. Borden in Swansea, Massachusetts, for sale - $174,000

New Listing
Gardners Neck Road Area
Historic
J. Gardner House & Lizzie Borden Summer Home c. 1790

Fall River Herald News, March 14, 1996: 23 (Classified Ad)"


10. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Doug on Mar-8th-04 at 9:08 AM
In response to Message #9.

My wife and I drove by this house when we were in Fall River last August. It appears to contain two apartments, side-by-side. The bushes in front which show in Sherry's photo were gone in August so from the street the house appeared more like the "historic" photo. The neighborhood now has a lot of newer (post WW II) houses with a few older houses still standing. The Borden house is walking distance to the water and only a few miles from downtown Fall River. I think it was an easy trip back and forth even in the days of horse and buggy.


11. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-8th-04 at 3:01 PM
In response to Message #10.

You know what seemed the longest distance?

From Weybosset Street to Second Street!
I realize changes to Fall River and the road systems, and new buildings where there had been none, would all affect the distance Morse traveled- but that was surprising.  That was somewhat of a "sit up and take notice!"

(Message last edited Mar-8th-04  3:02 PM.)


12. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-8th-04 at 3:41 PM
In response to Message #10.

Doug, the farm house was owned jointly by Almy and Borden.
Maybe it was like a duplex?


13. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Doug on Mar-8th-04 at 8:44 PM
In response to Message #12.

My impression when I saw this house from the outside was that it has space for two families. As a working farm with absentee ownership, especially with animals/livestock on the premises, one apartment was likely occupied by the hired man and his family (unless the hired man lived close by in a different house). The other apartment could then have been shared by the two owners and their families.


14. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-8th-04 at 9:37 PM
In response to Message #13.

I saw the Eddy house which looks substantial- meaning it was enough of a house to live year-round as a resident.
However, I do not know when Eddy acquired it.

I think of the Swansea house as maybe a shared house.  Maybe the Almy's didn't stay there as the same time as the Bordens.  In business, I suppose one would stay in town while the other vacationed.
I somehow can't see the farm man living under the same roof- but I don't know that.

After Almy died I think? Mrs. Almy had her own Almy house in Swansea, to which she retired to live.  I am confused about this tho, because I know there was a town Almy house as well.    (Mon Dieu!  I should have paid more attention!)


15. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by audrey on Mar-8th-04 at 11:23 PM
In response to Message #14.


  @ "Mon Dieu" 


16. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by theebmonique on Mar-8th-04 at 11:39 PM
In response to Message #15.

Mon Dieu...I have SOOO much to learn...whew.


17. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by theebmonique on Mar-8th-04 at 11:40 PM
In response to Message #15.

Mon Dieu...I have SOOO much to learn...whew.


18. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by theebmonique on Mar-8th-04 at 11:42 PM
In response to Message #17.

Gee...I guess one thing I ought to learn is to not double post...sorry.


19. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-9th-04 at 12:20 AM
In response to Message #18.

I must say that the area Stef and I were in during the day- Gardner's Neck Road- seemed very much a small, tight community with kids outside their houses playing and teens walking together all over the place.  The kind of place where people knew their neighbors.


20. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by theebmonique on Mar-9th-04 at 12:50 AM
In response to Message #19.

I am looking forward to seeing the Swansea house.  You that have talked about it and shared the pictures really have me wanting to see it !  Thanks !


21. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by MarkHinton63 on Mar-9th-04 at 10:39 AM
In response to Message #18.



Theebmonque,

Don't worry about it. You're fine. It happens.

Mark H.


22. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Doug on Mar-9th-04 at 1:45 PM
In response to Message #14.

Kat, I too think the Almys had another house in Swansea but will have to check out my sources on that later. Also, it was common in New England (though I can't say in southeastern Massachusetts specifically) for the hired man to have space to live in the "main" farmhouse. Many of the old farmhouses had (and still have) multi-family living arrangements.


23. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-9th-04 at 2:22 PM
In response to Message #22.

Oh my gosh!  Another plebian thing for Lizzie to put up with!
It seems as if the Borden folks and Lizzie vacationed seperatly, in later years at least.
When Andrew and Abby were at Swansea the year before, Lizzie's friend came to visit and stay, Mrs. Tripp.
She came there July 13 of 1891 and stayed a week, which would have included Lizzie's birthday...(Inq.141) and Abby was not there all that time.


24. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Raymond on Mar-9th-04 at 3:50 PM
In response to Message #22.

From my limited experience in the Southern Tier of NY, multiple family homes were for two generations. Hired help lived in a smaller separated house. You can see examples today in off-the-main-hiway areas, even So. Jersey. Their house looks about the size of a two-car garage w/ windows and a chimney.

(Message last edited Mar-9th-04  3:50 PM.)


25. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Doug on Mar-10th-04 at 10:24 AM
In response to Message #14.

According to Appendix C in the book 'Lizzie Borden, Past & Present' Andrew acting alone as well as with William Almy began buying property in Swansea in 1871. This was a year before Andrew purchased the Second St. house. Their last transaction together of property, though it is not clear whether this included Swansea property, appears to have occurred in 1884, the year before William Almy died. On pages 50 and 54 of Rebello's book is more information regarding Swansea property. In particular from page 54,

"In 1887, Mr. Borden purchased Mr. Almy's land holdings except for the home on Franklin Street and another home in Swansea, Massachusetts. When Mrs. Almy died in 1903, she left the summer home she called "Landscape Place" to her son William and daughter Rachel."

This makes it appear that at the time of his death William Almy owned a house in Swansea which was not co-owned by Andrew Borden and which stayed in the possession of the Almy family.


26. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-10th-04 at 3:44 PM
In response to Message #25.

OK thanks, that's good info!
Mrs. Almy on Franklin.
Hiram & Lurana moved to Franklin Street before the Trial.
I think the Ms.'s Gifford lived on that street too.


27. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Raymond on Mar-10th-04 at 3:59 PM
In response to Message #25.

Having a summer home in the country avoided cholera, TB, polio, and the other illnesses associated with city living. You can look this up.


28. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Constantine on Mar-10th-04 at 9:36 PM
In response to Message #25.

This is my first message.  Don't know quite where to stick this one in or how thoroughly the subject has been covered already, but:

I've just been rereading Lincoln, who, if I understand her correctly, says that, at the time of the murders, Andrew was planning to put the Swansea property in Abby's name before John Vinnicum Morse moved there (why?) and that Lizzie got wind of it.  Though Lincoln claims to have inside information (in this case and others), I find this (and at least some of the other cases) questionable.  Still, it does rather ingeniously explain the note (a pretext for getting Abby out of the house without arousing Lizzie's suspicions), John Vinnicum Morse's visit, the burnt roll of paper (the transferring document), Lizzie's remaining home instead of going to Marion and even a possible motive.  Is there any "extra-Lincoln" evidence for this planned transaction?


29. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-11th-04 at 5:20 PM
In response to Message #28.

I think there are newspaper accounts, maybe early ones?

We looked at the age of Leontine Lincoln and the age of Victoria when he supposedly told her the story.  He was in the last year of his life.  We have a bio of the man, who was a great man in Fall River, from the Phillips History of Fall River.
Since these things weren't talked about, it was hard to believe that he would tell an approx.18 year old Victoria anything about such a case as this...

HI!


30. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Susan on Mar-12th-04 at 3:34 PM
In response to Message #29.

I found this pic of a house that is also on Gardners Neck Road in Swansea, no house number, but, it states that it is possibly near what is now Susan Drive.  It belonged to A. Homer Skinner.  Is this close to the Borden home at all?  It doesn't sound like it is still standing, curious as to what is there now?


From this site: http://www.swanseamass.org/history_photos.html


31. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-12th-04 at 4:05 PM
In response to Message #30.

The farm of Andrew was not on the water, but maybe a few blocks away?
The area now looks like any small town Massachusetts, with differing sized homes, sort of close together.
I didn't see the homes on the water, tho we drove around the area 3 times.


32. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by lydiapinkham on Mar-13th-04 at 2:51 AM
In response to Message #28.

Welcome, Constantine!

--Lyddie









33. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Doug on Mar-13th-04 at 11:28 AM
In response to Message #31.

The water is not far from this house, nowadays a few blocks as you say, Kat. It is within walking distance whether east, west, or south and in 1892 when there were fewer buildings to block the view the Bay and its tributaries were likely within sight across the mowings and pastures. There is also a great view from this neighborhood across the water to downtown Fall River.


34. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by audrey on Mar-13th-04 at 4:22 PM
In response to Message #31.

Would the property have been on the water at the time, before the sale of all the land?

Was waterfront property  a hot commodity back then which may explain why it was sold by E&L? 

(Message last edited Mar-13th-04  4:23 PM.)


35. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Doug on Mar-15th-04 at 1:33 AM
In response to Message #34.

Andrew as an individual and with William Almy owned hundreds of acres in Swansea. It is possible, even likely, that at least some of his/their property around or near the Gardners Neck Road house was shoreline property.

I don't know how desirable the area was for development in the 1890s and early 1900s but it obviously became so later in the 20th century. There are many homes there now and it remains an attractive neighborhood.


36. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by Kat on Mar-15th-04 at 11:08 PM
In response to Message #35.

Thanks for the info.
I hadn't realized it was that much property.
Wouldn't Andrew be pleased about his initial investment when he sees what has become of his land?
(I mean now- now that he is obviously more evolved, shall we say?)

Ah, but no Old Ladies Home For the Aged?

(Message last edited Mar-15th-04  11:09 PM.)


37. "Re: Swansea home"
Posted by constantine on Mar-15th-04 at 11:28 PM
In response to Message #32.

Thank you, Lyddie!