1. "Lizzie swoons"
Posted by harry on Aug-29th-03 at 10:13 AM

Normally  very stoical, Lizzie at the trial, occasionaly would exhibit some emotion. This little item from the June 6th, 1893 Evening Standard:

"Immediately after Mr. Moody had finished the opening of the case, the prisoner swooned, and for several minutes was in an unconscious state.  Deputy Sheriff Kirby, Mr. Jennings and Rev. Mr. Jubb were at once at her side, and through their efforts the woman, who up to this time had withstood the terrible strain which had been sufficient to break down the strongest, was restored to sensibility.
At this point the jury was excused for a few minutes."

Talk about taking the air out of an opening statement! Maybe our Lizzie knew a little bit about acting before she met Miss O'Neil

I'm glad you brought Lizzie's swooning up, Harry.  Is it true that Lizzie did NOT swoon when the skull(s) were brought in the courtroom?  I think I read in the newspaper accounts that the court said she could leave the room, that's all.  There wasn't any swooning over the skull/s like there was in the movie, was there?

Oh, yeah.  She was Oscar material, that 'girl'. 

She was excused for the demonstration of the skull testimony as far as I can remember. The trial transcript itself, being a formal document, does not mention it. This from Lincoln, page 247, chapter 31):

"Lizzie was excused from the courtroom throughout that afternoon. It would have been a hard time for any daughter, guilty or innocent. Plaster casts of the skulls were brought in, their incisions marked in blue; the hatchet-head was represented by a piece of tin cut to exact size, and the wounds were discussed by Dr. Dolan, two state doctors, and three professors from Harvard; all six, men with long experience of criminal cases demanding a background in forensic medicine, five of them experts in the field.
(It is a favorite legend that Lizzie was unexpectedly confronted in the court with her parents' skulls and swooned.)"


This is also from Lincoln (page 234, paperback) regarding the swoon after Moody's opening:

"Lizzie heard him through with an empty face. To the reporters it indicated a detachment just this side of boredom. The whole courtroom was startled when, just as Moody sat down, she fainted.
She was unconscious for only a minute or two. Mr. Jubb and Mr. Jennings were at her side at once with cold water and smelling salts. Upon coming to, she sat upright again with the same look of bored detachment."

Great recovery Liz.


(Message last edited Aug-29th-03  10:39 AM.)

I've always been awfully suspicious of "swooning" in general.  It's been attributed to too-tight corsets, too many clothes in the heat, etc.  However, I wonder if it was in fact a "learned behaviour" deemed appropriate for ladies when they felt uncomfortable or overwhelmed.

I wonder...

I checked Pearson and this is what he has to say (page 59):

"...Twice, during the trial, she swooned or seemed to be overcome in some degree. Once was at the close of Mr Moody's speech for the prosecution; and once was during the production in Court of her father's skull. Whether these were actual faintings, or whether she was prostrated, temporarily, by the heat, and her "new dress of black mohair," with leg-of-mutton sleeves, it is impossible to determine."

This from Radin about Moody's finish:

"When he (Moody) sat down, the Reverend Mr. Jubb leaned toward Lizzie Borden with a bottle of smelling salts in his hands. Some of the reporters sent out a flash saying that she had fainted; others reported that she had pushed aside the bottle and had taken a drink of water."

And then later about the skulls being shown:

"It was while Dr. Draper was on the stand that the fleshless skulls of both victims were produced in the courtroom. 
Lizzie Borden fainted and later had to be led out of the chamber."

I think Lincoln's reference must be only to the fake skulls that were used to demonstrate the blows.


Yes, Tina-Kate, I suspect a little acting as well. I've only seen somebody faint twice and both times they rose too quickly from a seated position. Both were not that well physically.

(Message last edited Aug-29th-03  11:18 AM.)

I fainted, once - it had to do with rising from a kneeling position.  After a moment, I came to, sprawled on the bed, which, thank god, had been right next to me.

I think perhaps Lizzie was coached to swoon, as it was a surefire way of reminding the jury of her femininity, since she otherwise had that troubling lack of effect thing going on.

This reminds me of the films MURDER IN A SMALL TOWN and A CRY IN THE DARK, and the notion that self-contained = evil. 

(Message last edited Aug-29th-03  12:29 PM.)

I fainted once in my life.  I saw something traumatic happen to my father in a hospital, and I walked down the hall to get a drink from the drinking fountain.  I didn't make it.  I had no warning - totally unconscious.  I heard my mom calling my name before I opened my eyes and she was leaning over me.  No dreamworld; just non-existent.  She said I was out 3-5 minutes.  The nurse's station, which was a few feet away, did NOTHING.  When I got up, the nurse called to my mom, "If she needs treatment, take her down to the ER room and get her paperwork processed first."  NEVER pass out in a hospital - unless you're already admitted.

I'd have never survived in Lizzie's time with the clothing and the heat.  I'd probably join a brothel just so I could go around with less garments on in the summertime.

I think a lot of people probably faked it back then.  I don't think I would have- I'm too truthful, dang it.  Wait, I'd be in the brothel.  Well, I WOULD fake SOME things!  

I like the drawing "Lizzie Faints Away", David Kent's The Lizzie Borden Sourcebook, page 220 (also on the back of the dust-cover).  It appeared in "The Police Gazette", a men's magazine of the 1890s.  Wish I could reproduce it here.  It's heavy on the melodrama, so obviously her acting wasn't that convincing.  It also shows one of the sexier Lizzies, which I guess makes sense for a men's mag & perhaps they felt fainting was sort of feminine & sexy?

Augusta, I can understand why you fainted (awful how healthcare is so caught up in red-tape all over the world) & I've also had the rising too quickly episode. 

Still, swooning/fainting seems to occur a lot less regularly since the women's movement took hold

Guilty or innocent, I think it is entirely possible that Lizzie fainted/swooned.

She must have been under one helluva strain.

It seems to me that someone on the LEGEND production team had a look at that drawing (which I can see in my mind's eye - though it's probably part of the archives right here!), 'cause I think Liz Montgomery uses at least one outthrust arm, as in the sketch) in her swooning scene.

Thinking about it for a minute, I'd bet on it - the film plays up the presence of courtroom artists at that time, doesn't it? 

(Message last edited Sep-2nd-03  11:10 AM.)

Could the swooning be a means to distract the jury from the Prosecutor's summation? The emotions raised by his speech?

Fainting caused by low blood pressure? Too-tight corsets prevent breathing? Low blood sugar from skipping a meal?
I once heard an experience minister say that it was more common for the groom to faint than the bride. Because he was up late drinking and celebrating, and got little sleep or skipped breakfast.

What is your experiences?

Any such drawing represents ONLY the imagination of the artist or what the editor wanted.

Right you are, Bob G.
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/LizzieCourt.htm



She looks to be possessed or sleepwalking or Hyp-No-Tized!

(Message last edited Aug-29th-03  5:38 PM.)

Thanks Kat!  I love that drawing, it is so melodramatic and Victorian!  I can recall one day where I came very, very close to fainting, my wedding day!  I was so nervous and tense, and it was almost time to go and I started to black out.  Thank God/dess one of my bridesmaids knew what to do, sat me down and put my head between my knees.  I must have been quite the sight, had my veil on and everything! 

Heres some medical stuff about fainting:

What causes fainting?


Fainting, which is also called syncope, can be related to many different things. More than one thing may be the cause of fainting. Sometimes a specific cause for fainting can't be found.


Fainting can happen when not enough oxygen flows through your blood and into your brain. You lose consciousness, or "pass out," for a very brief time -- just a few seconds or minutes.


A sudden drop in your blood pressure can cause you to faint. Sometimes your heart rate and blood vessels can't react fast enough when your body's need for oxygen changes. This is very common among older people. It can happen when:


You stand up fast.
You work or play hard, especially if it's very hot.
You begin to breathe too fast (called hyperventilating).
You get very upset. Being upset can affect the nerves that control your blood pressure.
You're taking medicine for high blood pressure.

Coughing, urinating and stretching can also get in the way of the flow of oxygen to the brain and may be a cause of fainting. If you faint once during one of these activities, it's probably not something to worry about. But if it happens more than once, you should tell your doctor about it.


If you faint when you turn your head to the side, the bones in your neck may be pinching on one of the blood vessels that leads to your brain. If this happens to you, be sure to tell your doctor about it.


A drop in your blood sugar may also cause you to faint. This can happen if you have diabetes, but it may also happen if you don't eat for a long time.


Some prescription medicines can cause fainting. Be sure to talk to your doctor if you think your fainting may be related to a medicine you're taking. Alcohol, cocaine and marijuana can also cause fainting.


More serious causes of fainting include seizures and problems with the heart or with the blood vessels leading to the brain.

From this site:  http://familydoctor.org/handouts/065.html

Thanks Susan for the fainting info.
I've fainted twice and once was after getting stitches out of my mouth.  I thought it was because I was so scared of getting the stitches out, but come to think of it, I did keel over just after getting up from the chair.  It was probably a combination of both and all this time I thought I was just a *stitches wimp*!

Actually, recall when we were discussing hypoglycemia as a possible health issue with Lizzie...her sometimes (reported) erratic behavior, her "spells" or whatever, and she always made a point that she didn't eat with the family...and we thought of the symptoms of hypoglycemia, which is caused by blood sugar problems...that includes fainting.
See Archive:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive0602/LB/ArchiveLBEpilepsy.htm

Thanks for posting that picture.

Greetings from The Isle of Wight.  It's about 7 PM here & I've had no sleep.  Playing on the computer while my parents watch something that seems to be the British version of American Idol.  I plan to sleep for hours on end tonite.

Hi Tina-Kate!  Hope you have a GREAT trip. Enjoy!

HI Sweetie!!
We'll Miss You!!
Thanks for checking in!

Hi Tina-Kate!  Have fun in the Merry Olde country! 

In the Evening Standard, Tuesday, June 6, 1893, pg.4 -The opening statement:
..."According to the practice in this commonwealth, either to protect the innocent or to establish guilt, such portions of the victim's bodies must be produced as are necessary, and the skulls of Mr. and Mrs. Borden will be shown to you, and you will carefully examine them.

{Here the skulls were produced by Dr. Dolan.)

There is another thing told--the weapon which brought Mr. Borden to his death was just 3 1/2 inches in width.  Let there be no mistake, gentlemen.  The one significant fact..."
..."He closed with an appeal to the jury to exercise the best judgement as men."
____________

"LIZZIE FAINTS AWAY.

Swooned Under the Terrible Strain of the Morning.

Immediately after Mr. Moody had finished the opening of the case, the prisoner swooned..."

--The closing remarks went on after the skulls were brought into court, according to this news account.  It was after Moody finished that Lizzie swooned, upon which you remarked.

I love the dramatic pose in the swooning drawing.  However, does a person suddenly stand up before they're about to swoon?  I didn't think Lizzie was made to stand all day. I read that she just suddenly slumped over.
The blood pressure stuff was informative. I've almost swooned at a library when I was sqatting to look for a book on a bottom shelf and then stood up too fast. I was glad the rows of shelves were so close together so I could brace myself. 

It probably just made a better sketch than her sitting
around with her head between her knees.

  That's a hoot!

Thank you very much -- I love when I actually get to
say something amusing.