Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY Topic Area: Links Topic Name: Bristol County Biographies  

1. "Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Gramma on Mar-18th-04 at 4:36 PM

Some very interesting folks here!

http://history.rays-place.com/bios/bristol-cty-ma.html

Gramma


2. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Kat on Mar-19th-04 at 12:59 AM
In response to Message #1.

Thanks for the link!
I was looking at Leontine Lincoln.  It doesn't have his death date , but it was 1923.
Do you know the year Victoria Lincoln was born?


3. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by christina on Mar-19th-04 at 2:58 AM
In response to Message #2.

October 23, 1904.


4. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by FairhavenGuy on Mar-19th-04 at 10:53 PM
In response to Message #1.

The 1899 History of Bristol County has many more biographies as well as mentions of Dr. Bowen and other players.

The book is about four inches thick altogether. In the section on Fall River history, there are two brief mentions of Andrew J. Borden in connection with banks. There is no mention whatsoever of the murders.

I think that the rays-place site will probably be adding more of the biographical sketches as they get transcribed from the book.


5. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Kat on Mar-20th-04 at 12:21 AM
In response to Message #2.

Okay.
Do we believe Leontine at his death, told a 19 year-old Victoria the secrets of the Borden case and yet she can claim these things were not talked about?


6. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Gramma on Mar-20th-04 at 9:24 AM
In response to Message #5.

Kat,

In a word, yes. End of life confessions were common and there was an attitude of "What's the difference? I'm going to be gone." Maybe getting closer to death put things in perspective and the secrecy didn't seem necessary any more. I don't know but I have known many people who said things just before their death that you couldn't have pried out of them with a crowbar before then.

Gramma


7. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Raymond on Mar-20th-04 at 11:34 AM
In response to Message #6.

Copernicus' theories came from a book that was not published until after his death. It contradicted historical assumptions.
Macchivelli's "Letter to the Prince of Florence" was not published until after his death. His family needed money and thought it would earn some. It has been in print for the last five centuries.
There were letters about Warren Harding's amours that were not published until after his death. Note all the stories that came out years after the death of Presidents.
Anybody read "Dutch" about Ronald Reagan? Published after he became senile.


8. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Kat on Mar-21st-04 at 2:13 AM
In response to Message #6.

What does he have to confess to?  I'm sorry but I really don't think either of these two, from different generations, would speak about the Bordens in his last year of life. 
Most families get the minister to hear those things of which you infer.
I think Victoria was out partying in the 1920's too.
What would she care about the Bordens, until she wanted to write a book?
At 19 she would want suitors and be involved in the Roaring Twenties...


9. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Gramma on Mar-21st-04 at 12:22 PM
In response to Message #8.

Kat,

She might have wanted to be part of the roaring twenties but at nineteen in that day and age she would have been under tight control. Risque was dresses below the knee and the "Charleston". If I remember correctly, the Lincolns were not much of party animals and if Victoria had tried it she would have been ostracized by the community. She was only 4 years younger than Ruby and my grandmother was only 15. There was no "party hardy" in those days (except for cast parties, and I bet even those would seem very boring to today's youth). That came in the 1960's. You "courted". There may have been a "sweet sixteen" "coming out" party in formal dress, but all male contacts were chaperoned or in a large public group like church groups. Yes, there were "those girls" you could find behind the barn but we all know what they were called and I sincerely doubt Victoria fell into that catagory. I do not think there was anything "loose" about Victoria.

People did talk about things at their death to close family members.
It would not have been unusual to pass this knowledge along. She would have been taught the importance of keeping the knowledge quiet. You notice the date of her publication of "A Private Disgrace"? It was mid-sixties, when perspectives were changing drastically. Attitudes were changing and enough generations had passed to think it an appropriate time to discuss the subject, although, if that was what she was thinking she was wrong. Even in the 1990's there were families involved that did not want the issue aired.

Gramma


10. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by FairhavenGuy on Mar-21st-04 at 12:50 PM
In response to Message #8.

I agree with Gramma. In conservative New England the Twenties didn't roar as loudly as they might have in New York or Chicago. If you were part of the crowd whose families were written up in the biographical sketches section of the county history book, you had a reputation to uphold.


11. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Kat on Mar-22nd-04 at 3:00 AM
In response to Message #10.

Wow!  In stodgy PA., they knew how to smoke and dance and shimmy and drink that hootch, and get divorced!
PA. must be really different at age 19 in the 20's or early 30's, than old Massachusetts!
Wow!

It still sounds odd to me that an old, important man would talk scandle to his granddaughter.  The fact that she was "protected" makes me think that all the more.
Maybe Victoria listened at doors?

I wouldn't do it- because I'm not good at it! 

(Message last edited Mar-22nd-04  3:02 AM.)


12. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by doug65oh on Mar-22nd-04 at 3:36 AM
In response to Message #11.

Oh, I dunno… a little Moxie, a 78-RPM record playin' in the front parlor…the right company…hmmm
“Charleston! Charleston! Way down in Carolina…”

Works for me!!

Doug


13. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Gramma on Mar-22nd-04 at 8:50 AM
In response to Message #11.

Kat,
There were those who knew how to do all that in Fall River, too, but if you were of the families we are talking about you did not associate with that class of people. Yes, class distinction at its finest! If anyone got wind of someone "on the hill" doing such things it would have been front page news and pure disgrace to the family. Cause to disinherit!

Gramma


14. "Re: Bristol County Biographies"
Posted by Kat on Mar-23rd-04 at 12:04 AM
In response to Message #13.

We had an old family name that had class.
The problem came when the old rich man lost his money and died.  Then they did whatever they wanted or needed to do.