1. "Book Recommendations?"
Posted by Benjamin on Aug-14th-03 at 2:01 PM

I'm going to get the Sourcebook, per someone's comment.(sorry, I forgot who), but I wondered if anyone could recommend the "better" books on Lizzie. I've got the Rebello book and the AR Brown book.(I like his theories up to a point, but I agree he went a bit conspiracy happy. Too many people involved to keep it that quiet. Watch any X-Files episode to prove that!) I'd like to bone up a bit on my Lizzie knowledge before I jump into deeper discussions! Thanks in advance!

I was going to shout REBELLO from the rooftops, but you do have it.

Have you read the source documents?  Available (for free) here --

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/OfficialDocuments.htm

Best info, as in most cases, they are the main sources the authors used (& they're without bias).

I quite like David Kent's "Forty Whacks", altho it has a "Lizzie is innocent" bias.

That's sage advice T-K.  Try to read the source documents first and in their chronological order - Witness Statements, Inquest, Preliminary Hearing and Trial.

I wish they all had been available when I started to read up on the case.

With that knowledge under your belt you'll be able to read the books and newspaper articles with a skeptical eye.  Most unfortunately contain a great many rumors and not facts.

I don't think, with the exception of Rebello, there is a book without some sort of bias, so choose your own poison.

I choose Prussic Acid!:-D

1) Rick Geary's picture book is a quick intro to this case.
2) David Kent's book gives an overall summary of the case.

Then you have the many secondary sources.
E PoRter: Lizzie guiltless.
E Pearson: Lizzie did it and got away with it (can't explain how!).
E Radin: Bridget could have done it.
V Lincoln: Lizzie did it, but her class didn't care (!).
R Sullivan: Lizzie did it, but Judge Dewey was "incorruptible".
F Spiering: Emma did it.
AR Brown: The Final Chapter that explains who really did it and how it was covered up. [Some may disagree.]
Masterton: Lizzie didn't do it, and he doesn't know who did.
...
The earlier books may not be available in your County Library system.

(Message last edited Aug-19th-03  7:10 PM.)

Copies of these documents are not readily available in your library.
How are the copies of these authenticated as to "chain of evidence"?

Knowing of the theories should best prepare you for these sources. But be careful, so you don't misinterpret them. Changes in words, and knowing the overall context, etc.

http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?start=1&fid=27&taid=8&topid=1081&ut=1054362299

Benjamin:  Please feel free to take advantage of a simple BIO. index to your new Rebello tome.  It's basic, and it's point is to easily find just Biographical material on the characters in the case.  They are listed in there somewhere but when there are mutiple pages for one name, this index merely pin-points the bio.
It can be printed out and stuck in the back of your book.

That was an interesting assessment, Ray.  Thanks.

May I ask what "E. Potter- Lizzie Guiltless" means?
Would that be Edwin Porter...Lizzie guilty?

Thanks everyone so much!  I'm gonna start by reading the documents on this site (in their proper order). I actually finished the preliminary hearing yesterday(and have questions/opinions) and will start the inquest today. I am going to get that Forty Whacks book. I guess I should officially declare my stance. I don't think Lizzie did it, although I do think she knew who did. I'm undecided as to whether she had foreknowledge of the event, but figure she decided 'why look a gift horse in the mouth'. It will be interesting to see how or if my opinion changes as I get more into the documents.
Well, I'd better get cracking. (or whacking, as it were.) 

Just realised I meant I've read the Witness Statements, not the preliminary stuff. D'oh!

To Ray's list, add:

De Mille - guilty as sin, but understandable
Hixson - ditto, but unstable

Folks, I got to stop in Fall River last Friday on the way home from the Cape.  We headed for the FRHS first, and I had a nice chat with lovely Anna, who runs the gift shop.  She said the Hilliard book is delayed, but something else Borden was coming.  I bought, for completeness' sake, Muriel Arnold's odd and poorly-written (and illustrated) little book pushing Bridget as the culprit, and also Walter L. Hixson's very interesting MURDER, CULTURE, AND INJUSTICE, in which he looks at four famous American murder trials, and the social climate of each.  It's not error-free, but I think he's got it.  I got a chance to greet Michael and Dennis as they returned to the Society carrying McDonald's for lunch (this was after I'd been able to take a quick look at the Borden exhibit).  I also picked up four small refrigerator magnets; Abby, feet first, Andrew on sofa, Lizzie after the trial, studio shot, and the post-trial Newport "with chair" snapshot.  BTW, the gazebo in the garden of the FRHS is truly charming, and the work continues.

Jay suggested we hit The House's gift shop, and we got to visit briefly with busy Sally McGinn, and to pick up the new mug, two Geary postcards, and a close-out copy of David Kent's SLAUGHTER ON SECOND STREET, which is talky, but heartfelt.

It was sunny and hot in old Fall River!  

(Message last edited Aug-19th-03  5:17 PM.)

E R Porter's book ends with the phrase "Lizzie returned home guiltless". Then or now, if you say someone is guilty after acquittal, you will be sued, and the libelled person will collect.

There are exceptions to every rule. Did ANY publication accuse Lizzie of murder in her lifetime when she had the money and inclination to sue? Check on Reporting 101 for this. But they can imply and infer a lot (between the lines). Yes, some persons may not have the money to sue, or their notoriety after exoneration prevents this (OJ Simpson).

I don't watch all the shows of "Dragnet" (ABC-TV Sat night). But many that I saw were based on real crimes. The death of a whistle-blower? "Remember Karen Silkwood?" You can watch this not just as entertainment but as a simple guide to detection. "Joe Friday" (its in the script) will often say (voiceover) "there is something in that bozo's story that doesn't ring true". "Lying to the detectives" is part of their job and they expect it - "Sam Spade".

I don't want to boast, but I did sense something wrong in one person's claim of a Vanity Fair article. Upon further questioning, his story collapsed like a wet cardboard box.

(Message last edited Aug-19th-03  7:09 PM.)

Didn't somebody say Hixson refuses to comment on his work?
Did someone else claim it was just a work of propaganda?
You can test this book by reading what he says of the Trial of OJ Simpson and compare it against the verdict and the known facts.

Ray, don't be coy.  You can use my name.

"Collapsed like a wet cardboard box?"  Have you not found the article?  Have you not read the article?  Did I misidentify the article as coming from VANITY FAIR when it maight've come from THE NEW YORKER or THE NY TIMES MAGAZINE?  If so, mea culpa, but if you think this undermines anything else I've written here, you're deluded.

Are you just going to be pissy to me forever because I didn't like your choice of Cornwell to write about Lizzie?  I won't let you try to defame me, however, to make yourself feel better - count on it.

And while we're both here:

DID somebody say that Hixson refuses to comment on his work?
DID someone else claim it was just a work of propaganda?
WHY do you ask more questions than you answer?
WHY do you persist in using the phrase "known facts" as if so much of the information from a criminal investigation was agreed upon by everyone - I'm sorry, everyone using "common sense."

Your phrase!

I don't think the Hixson book is misguided or propaganda.  I think it's a fairly well-written look at the crimes and the times in which they occurred.  Of course, Hixson doesn't believe that the Bordens were slaughtered by a mythical bastard son, so I can see where some posters here might find the book worthless...

By the way, I think libel and slander laws (re: your comment on Porter) only extend for the life of the subject; that is, you can't libel or slander a dead person, as far as I know. 

(Message last edited Aug-21st-03  12:41 PM.)

My comment on Hixson is based on what I remember from a posting a year or two ago. Somebody tried to get in touch w/ Hixson. But it could be that this professor did not have the time. Does anyone have any comments, favorable or otherwise, on his Borden chapter?

My suggestion of Cornwell is based on the fact that she writes fiction (like V Lincoln) and wrote a book to solve a murder (like V Lincoln). If you don't like that idea, no problem. Ann Rule has made a career about writing up famous true crimes; wouldn't she be best?
I have little knowledge of "true crime" except for what I read over the last decades; not my first choice.

Just for my own sake, I do hope you are not upset by my asking for proof. I am not a Cornwell fan, and would like to get ACCURATE information about any errors in her work. There are many books on Jack, more than the Borden murders.

Anyone ever read about the Torso murders from 1930s Cleveland Ohio? More than Jack the Ripper?

We'll see if this works.  I am attaching a"Simple Text" version of a review of Cornwell's work from the Casebook-Jack the Ripper site:

(Message last edited Aug-22nd-03  12:52 AM.)

Never mind.  It's too big.
Try:
http://casebook.org/dissertations/dst-pamandsickert.html

(Message last edited Aug-22nd-03  12:57 AM.)

Hey, Ray - oh yeah, I understand Cornwell was your pick for a fiction author to "do" a Borden book; King was mine.

As I said, I enjoyed the Hixson, even with the odd error (her nane was "Lizbeth" from birth?) or assumption on his part (he buys right into the Andrew-settled-down-for-a-nap scenario).

I just bought one of those sloppy British coff-table crime books from  a local book peddler for a dollar.  Did you know Abby was forty-two?  I think I'll cut the Lizzie picture out and throw the rest away.  It's called GREAT CRIMES, by the way.

That's sort of what I expected. If the facts were there, it would have been discovered decades ago.
The most important comment was about a writer picking a suspect, then filtering the facts to support the theory. "Theories should come from the facts, not the other way around" said Earle Stanley Gardner, who was to law like A Conan Doyle was to medicine. His "Perry Mason" was based on the real-life Earl Rogers.

Does anyone know of where or how I can get a copy of Rebello ---  without having to sell my car to pay for it? or a copy of the Elizabeth Montgomery movie about Lizzie?

wow --- never mind about the Rebello --- I found a copy 

Only because she is the only name that I know of: writer of fiction who has done a true-crime book.
Ann Rule is the better choice, but this topic may not be salable.

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Thanks

Tom