1. "Pssst .. Wanna buy a clock?"
Posted by harry on Nov-15th-03 at 5:31 PM

Gt-master sent me the news on this item on eBay.  Thanks Mark.

It's supposed to be the Borden clock in the "living room" spattered with blood. Of course the seller is not really sure but you can bid on it starting at $99.00. After you are through bidding talk to me, I have a bridge in NYC for sale.  I'll let you have it cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3638714673&category=208



(Message last edited Nov-15th-03  5:33 PM.)

That is pretty cool!
For an old, bloodspattered clock that doesn't work, $99 is not bad!

--I didn't think Andrew bought anything in the 1880's!
--234 people have eyeballed this item!


Can we figure out how Andrew's blood could spatter up over the TOP & then the face?
Isn't that 2 different directions?

(Message last edited Nov-15th-03  6:30 PM.)

This looks like direct drips:



And this looks like flying spatters:



(Message last edited Nov-15th-03  6:27 PM.)

Good points Kat.  The creator obviously never read the blood evidence in the case.

I just checked and it's now up to $102.50 and the reserve hasn't been met. Those two bidders will be lucky if it isn't met.  It has 262 views already so it's drawing a lot of interest.

Isn't it part of the Legend that the Borden clock stopped at the moment Andrew or Abby was killed?  I know I read that tale somewhere, in fact more than once.  This clock reads 10:25 which doesn't agree with either.  

test link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3638714673&category=208  thanks Harry

By jove I think he's got it!  Way to go Mark.

It's now up to $122.50 and the reserve still isn't met.  Some 445 views of the item.  That's a lot.

about 200 of those views are mine. Trying to figure out blood splatter angles & such. Ever the arm-chair sleuth.

I think someone pricked their finger and dripped directly onto the top of the clock and then faced the clock and flung their hand with bleeding finger.
That's the only way I  can think of to bleed directly onto the top like that, unless Andrew had it in his hand when attacked and dropped it and it landed on its feet at a short distance to be spattered on the face.

Interesting about the TIMe, Har!

YEA!  Even I can go there with your link!  That's great!

Did you check the name of the seller -  "deluxe-junk".  Hope that is just a name.

They seem honest though with a 100% satifactory rating on over 300 items. However most of those are where they bought something and not sold something.  I wish eBay would break out the two numbers.

I really like the label though. I think that is the neatest part.

Do we really think Miss Lizzie would have kept the clock-bloodstains & all? I believe Emma was cleaning the blood off the walls & floors the next day or shortly thereafter. I don't think that they (lizzie&emma) would have kept this item around unless it was a family heirloom. Even if that were the case, I'm sure they would have cleaned it up some-what.
If it was from the scene of the crime, it would have to have been close to one of the victims to have blood-stains on it. Does anyone recall a clock in any of the crime scene photos? Or something that resembles a clock?  Wouldn't it be something if someone were to win the bid for say $150.00 then 10 years down the road, new crime scene photos are found showing the clock with the exact bloodstains!!! Boy that would be something.

(Message last edited Nov-16th-03  3:12 PM.)

Its an interesting idea, though wouldn't old bloodstains be rather brownish by now instead of looking so fresh?  I would think those bloodstains would be more consistent with Abby's murder than Andrew's.

I'm thinking it could have been possible that a clock could have been taken as evidence with the blood on it, but, nothing of the sort has been listed anywhere.  If it was from the Borden house, it would have had to been stolen as a grim memento.

Theres one pic where you can see a sliver of the mantle and what looks like a vase on it, wish there was a photo of that wall of the room.


And that the bloodstains won't wash off?  If it was the real deal why would anyone want to wash the blood off?  I guess no one tried 'Pinkerton's Champion Stain Remover and Paragon Detergent' to remove them with?    Sorry, couldn't resist, its from part of The Canterville Ghost, bloodstains in the sitting room.  Heres the link to that part of the story if you're interested:
http://www.planetmonk.com/wilde/savile/canterville.c1.html

According to Bridget's trial testimony (pg. 268+) there were clocks a-plenty. Under cross examination by Robinson:

Q.  Now you speak about the time as 6.15 in the morning, quarter past six, on looking at the clock. How many clocks were there in the house?
A.  Well, there is one in the sitting-room, one in the kitchen, one in my bedroom, and I think there was one in Mr. Borden's bedroom.
Q.  Any other?
A.  That is all I remember; all to my knowledge.
Q.  Did you ever see a clock in the parlor?
A.  Yes, sir; I think there was a clock in the parlor; but I am not sure.
Q.  Do you recall whether there was a clock in Miss Lizzie's room or Miss Emma's room?
A.  No, there might be there; I don't remember.
Q.  You, don't know about that?
A.  No, sir.
Q.  There were clocks enough, weren't there?
A.  Yes, sir; there was.
Q.  One in the sitting-room, you said?
A.  Yes, sir.

The clock on eBay was supposed to have been taken from the "living room".  I assume that means the sitting room.

It's amazing with all those clocks nobody seems ever to notice the time.


I think they went over the blood traces pretty thoroughly and found one or two spots on the kitchen door or frame. No mention of blood on a clock or mantel.

I think I solved my own mystery here. The label intrigued me no end. But notice the label is WRONG. The trial was in 1893 not 1892. So the label is not accurate, which puts a heap of doubt into the authenticity of the clock itself. Voila!

PLUS why would the back be so dirty, really dirty and messy, with a messy label, and the front, covered in blood be so clean (besides the blood that is)?

(i had to correct the spelling of 'label'---it is one of those words, like angel/angle, that I have to do over everytime!)

(Message last edited Nov-17th-03  5:24 PM.)

Can anybody read what the rest of the label says?

Maybe Andrew's spirit is in the clock. Yeah, that's right, it's probably a haunted clock. And Andrew won't let the bloodstains be washed away. And on the anniversary of the murders, the clock chimes but otherwise doesn't work, and, and, um, yeah, and during the full moon, the clock drips blood, no, no, no, I got it, inside the clock is a map that shows where Lizzie hid the axe.

Oh, did I mention that Lizzie's written confession is hidden in the clock too? And that the clock was once owned by Jack the Ripper? In fact.... Oh, never mind!

I think the bottom part says, "Blood spots never left"? 

I was so intrigued by what the note said that I didn't notice what it was written on.
I have some of those labels.  I got them from the estate of my 87 year old friend.  They look like they might be from the 1940's or probably 1950's at least.
They are called:

     TWENTY                    No. 2009

                 Dennison
            GUMMED  LABELS
                 SIZE 5" x 3 "

             Dennison Manufacturing Co.
               FRAMINGHAM,    MASS.,  U.S.A.

ooooh you are goooood! Excellent sleuthing! Anybody wanna tackle the penmanship?

I now see the label was INSIDE the clock. Hmmm. And that dirty? Now I am really not liking this. Don't you think that even 25 years ago this clock would have been a big deal and made news. Especially if really was the blood of Andrew?

The auction states:
"I bought this clock at auction over 25 years ago. There is an old label attached inside the clock written in old penmanship stating " Clock from the famous Lizzie Borden Estate after the trial in 1892. The blood spots never left. ". That`s true, as you can see from the photos`s. Their is, now pink colored, blood splatters across the face and over the top. This was the mantel clock in the living room where Lizzie killed her father with an axe. The spots will not come off and are consistent with what one can only imagine blood spewing across a room and landing on a painted china clock would look like after a hundred and eleven years. The clock itself seems to be made around the 1880`s and is 14 inches tall by 11 inches wide. There is no maker`s name and it does not work. It is in perfect shape, no damage whatsoever. I have always believed in the origin of this clock and the authenticity of the attached note but I would hesitate to say I am absolutely certain as I am no expert in this historical field. Therefore, please, if you have any questions contact me. This clock is a pretty important part to the Borden puzzle and is after all one of a kind. Thank you for viewing."

Oh, and it it was owned at one time by the gunman on the grassy knoll at the JFK assassination in Dallas in 1963.....

OMG  

Yup, sort of.
Rebello, 112:

"A singular coincidence in the connection with the Borden murders is that the calendar pointed on the old fashioned clock, at the residence on Second Street, stopped on the fourth, the date of the murders and still points to that date. The other works of the clock are not impaired, but tick off the minutes and hours with usual regularity." Fall River Evening News, August 9, 1892.

--Good memory.

Oooo, thats cool and creepy at the same time.  Sounds more like a grandfather clock.  I wonder if anyone has this one somewhere still? 

Do longcase clocks particularly have calendars on them?

The clock sold today for $999! Very interesting.

OUCH!  All I can say to the buyer is I hope you are right and we are wrong.  The next highest bid was only $415.00.

Over 2500 views of the item. 

(Message last edited Nov-22nd-03  5:11 PM.)

The only comment I have is that when blood streaks through the air, it is not selective in where it lands. If the clock was so severely splattered and it was across the room, then basically, the entire inside of the room would have been equally splattered. Yet, we know that wasn't the case.

In addition, the shape of the blood drops would be more teardrop like. For the blood drops on the top of the clock to be round as shown, the blood would have to come straight down from the ceiling, not from across the room.

Of course we all know the whole story is BS but that didn't stop folks from bidding it up.

So we've seen Lizzie's clock, a couch, numerous "signed" books, a purple autograph and Lizzie's washboard, all appearing on Ebay. Did I miss anything?

The clothes dryer?

(Message last edited Dec-5th-03  9:16 PM.)

Yeah, that's the one. I knew it had something to do with Lizzie's laundry. Kinda makes you wonder what the next "historic" Borden find will be.

Lizzie's spoons-
http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?start=1&fid=27&taid=3&topid=1496&ut=1059630730

Lizzie's picture-
"The photo here was among a group of Lizzie Borden items recently auctioned.It depicts Lizzie two years before she died.Measurements are 4.5 inches by 6.5 inches.Photo in good shape,small crease line lower left hand corner.Please be sure before bidding.Thanks for taking a look! "
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive703/SecondStreet/SSStrangest.htm

Emma's Cup-
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive0602/Seconds/ArchiveLBSScup.htm

Lizzie's Ice Pick-
"Up for auction this week is a Gilcrest Ice Pick that was found at The Lizzie Borden Museum in Fall River, Ma. It was found during the renovation of the house in 1995. "
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive0602/Seconds/ArchiveLBSSMore.htm

I also have on my list "Lizzie's Knife" from a posting by Stefani on 1/16/02, but can't find it in archive, sorry.

Well, I've got a pair of Lizzie's panties. They are clearly dated 1892 in purple ink. It was common to date your panties back then. They came from the estate of William Jefferson Clinton Borden who was Lizzie's nephew twice removed. There is a tag on the panties that says "Victorian Secrets" which seems to prove their age. I was once offered $20K for these undergarments but because of a family emergency I will accept $19.99 cash. Call before midnight tonight, operators are standing by.

I wanna know more before I plunk down my hard-earned $20. 

Are they crotchless, for example???
(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Do they have "L. A. Borden" written in pencil on them like she signed her books?  Or do they have a monogam "B" like the front door at Maplecroft did? 

(Message last edited Dec-9th-03  8:45 AM.)

No, this time I think that the monogram is on the "back door." (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Okay, sounds like we're in business!

Whats the size on those panties? I just might be interested. Quick joke: One guy says to his friend at work "boy I can't wait to get home & rip off my wife's panties". His friend replys "why, has it been a while since you've had a little?" He says " no, her panties have been riding up on me all day". 

(Message last edited Dec-9th-03  7:15 PM.)

So much for everyone here being stuffy intellectual types!

yea, I feel right at home, I work with young people all day and
hear about all their escapades. The L.A. Borden on the panties would
be the crotch I mean catch of the day though. 

I forget! Are we talking about Lizzie Borden or Paris Hilton?