1. "William A. Davis"
Posted by David on Mar-27th-02 at 4:02 AM

Last night I saw on the TLC channel "Lizzie Borden The Case ReOpened" with the McBain who used Evan Hunter as a pseudonym and with such talking heads as Michael Martins, George Quigley, and Len Rebello and with Bill Pavao, owner of the LB B&B, playing William Borden the illegitimate son. Anyway, I saw where they said that William A. Davis, son of a butcher from South Dartmouth and supposedly an accomplice with John V. Morse in the murders, had died of a tumor in his head and neck. I didn't quite catch the precise date of his death, and am itching to know. I conscientiously checked all the old messages in both the old LBS and the new LBS boards using the keyword search, but came up empty-handed. If anyone knows, please supply, thanks!

If you like, all I can refer you to is my post on the subject at :
Topic-  LIZZIE ANDREW BORDEN
Title: "Case Re-Opened Video",
second page of TOPIC.
I have since checked Knowlton, Hoffman & Rebello and none have a date or year of death for Wm. Davis.  I just don't know from where this *information* was obtained.  I had a similiar response to the news about the tumor, as you...kk

Not to be presumtous but William "Bill" Pavao is not the "owner of the L.B. B & B" his position is "Curator" and as I was informed this past weekend while staying at the B & B, Mr. Pavao does not spend a great deal of time at the Borden house.

As I understand it Bill Pavao initally lived on the third floor front bedroom for nearly three years as a "live-in" Curator.  But as all jobs go he soon began to loose interest in be a live-in and Ms. Martha McGinn and he agreed that he would not longer reside on the third floor.

This move allowed the B & B to have an additional bedroom for rent. BC

BC

Thanks, Kat and Bob. Bob, I already saw your post about your stay experience at the B&B this past weekend, and you mentioned there that the McGinns are the current owners, so by process of elimination I knew then that Bill Pavao isn't the owner. But thanks again, anyway.

william arthur davis was born on august 6th 1851,
and died on may 7th 1900.
he died of a brain tumor and cancer of the neck.

Huh!

HOW did you find THIs out?  Ask George Quigley?
Do you have a source?  This is most interesting...especially if he died at that famed 1900-1902 mark, when all the major players had died by, practically... no new case can then be brought, with most of the characters gone.

dear kat,
i got the information from the dartmouth city clerks office.
his death certificate lists him as a farmer.
his main occupation was "butcher".
william as well as john morse learned the butchers trade from william's father isaac case davis and william's uncle charles a. davis.

Thank you--That was well done.

Now, according to the theory on the video, CASE RE-OPENED with Ed McBAIN, we need to know if Wm. Davis "leaned a little to the left, when walking."  (I think it was Quigley's theory that the man was Davis and had died of a tumor of the neck etc., which caused him to lean...)  A suspect was seen that day, that "leaned to the left", Witness Statements, pg.40-42.  That St, Amant family met a man who offered four dollars to be taken by coal wagon to New Bedford at between 2:30 and 3 p.m., Thursday.

(Message last edited Apr-2nd-02  11:26 PM.)

dear kat,
i am looking into 3 clues in this case.
which are strong "circumstantial evidence".
i am also recieving a photo this week of william davis.
then i will go from there.
there is no direct evidence in the borden case.
but circumstantial evidence (when the pieces are all in place)in many cases will create the whole picture.
                                        many thanks
                                             jeffery

Jeffery,
If Wm. Davis was the Actual killer, are we talking *hit man*, here?
If so, Why would he still be hanging around Fall River at "2:30-3 p.m." at Pleasant St. looking for a ride out of town, per Witness Statements?
This is based on that theory in the video that the suspicious man leaned to the left, and now we hear that Davis may have died of a neck & brain tumor.
Also, if he did the deed, how did the conspirators keep him from talking, especially if his mind was probably degenerating over time due to his illness?

The simplest answer or question is this: why would Lizzie not tell on the murderer? "It wasn't Bridget or anyone who worked for Father". I won't even consider this speculation without any facts.

It is a self-serving statement for anyone to make such a claim "Jack the Ripper was my father/grandfather". I would question their sanity or judgment on this. Claim for fame, or help?

"Lizzie would not tell on the murderer" if she didn't know who it WAS, would she?  That's ONE intrepretation!
And Brown is "speculation" of the deepest sort!  It can't be both ways...

The Topic Title of This: "Stay To Tea With Wm. Davis" thread is SO SURREAL!

dear board members,
in the next few months, i am working with a friend of mine.
and we will be presenting once again "on the evidence" a theory presented on davis in past l. borden quarterly's.
including the clues that i have diligently looked into.
and we intend to either present it in either book form or an essay or on this board with the kind permission of the board addministration.
                                       once again many thanks,
                                                   jeffery howard

Dear Jeffrey,

I am always accepting articles for publication on my web site

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com

If you wish, you can email me a copy of the article as an attachment. My web site has had over 800,000 hits to date in less than a year of being on line. While there is no money involved, you will definitely "get seen" and find fame (of sorts) with this avenue of publication.

Very interesting Jefferey. Will yr theory involve Morse? Perhaps a murder conspiracy between Lizzie, Morse, and Davis?

Your work will be read by the most amount of people here on Stef's kewl site, although u can even submit it somewhere if u prefer. The quarterly accepts theories, eg. the Carpenter article, but not if they involve Lizzie-as-the-killer, as I found out the hard way.

dear stefani,
i seek no fame or money in this.
there are 3 standpoints that i take in my approach to this case;
1-no personal fame,no personal glory.
2-truth
3-facts.
                                         thanks
                                         jeffery

But she would describe any strange person who she saw leaving the house, wouldn't she??? How many total strangers would visit a private house in the mornings, anyway? Then or now?
Keeping quiet about the mrderer implies she knows more than she told. It is a logical inference.
Like the "dog that did nothing in the night".

Apparently Andrew did business from his home at odd hours...whenever needed.
In the Witness Statements, Lizzie says that "a man came" to the front door Thursday morning who "spoke English" at 9 a.m.
Masterton believes this to be Jonathan Clegg.  So did Dave abut a year ago, before the Witness Statements were so readily available...I remember everyone in the discussion asked, "Why would Clegg visit, if he'd already been there that week, plus would be seeing Andrew downtown later that same morning?"
Well, Dave didn't have the documentation at hand, and had to *retire* from the discussion...but apparently he was right, according to what Lizzie told Fleet, August 4th, W.S., pg.2--if we *believe* Lizzie...
Also, Masterton believed it enough to suspect Clegg as the possible assasin, also per Dave (who, to be fair, could not cite source at the time):  here are the Masterton page numbers:  231-234.

Lizzie may not have *seen* ANYBODY....what she *heard* is another story...

(Message last edited Apr-8th-02  1:10 AM.)

Oops, I see Kat's post was moved here. I was referring to it in my last "My Book Published" post.

(Message last edited Apr-9th-02  3:40 PM.)

This post wasn't moved.
It was in direct reply to rays...always was here.
I was going to tell this story last week but I got busy.  I never forgot that time when source-less, you couldn't *prove* what you maintained.
On the other thread "My book"..since i read consecutively down the order of posts, I did not know what you were talking about.

A lot of people don't have many sources, that's why Stefani created her web-site...to share the resources available...and giving eveyone an *equal opportunity* to avail themselves of them...and therefore can *cite* references, or transcribe pertinate facts, to bolster their theory or just to keep up.

That *Clegg* thing happened in the Dark Ages, when we were all "Cellar Dwellers", whether we knew it or not...

I believe Lizzie did see the "visitor" but didn't know what he did - yet. She could have described him, but only ruled out the other obvious suspect "it wasn't Bridget". She was honest enought for that!

Some say they would never be tried for a crime they KNEW their sister did. But what if you only had strong suspicion? What were the moral rules of that era? "Don't be a squealer" was what I learned; see no evil, speak no evil, etc. I'm not talking about strangers here.

Does family connections count, then or now. Would you report someone who lived well with little income? Only if you suspected something?

I just read a spurious newspaper account of who came to the door that Thursday morning, in the Sourcebook.  It claimed Lizzie thought him to be the Portuguese who worked on the Swansea farm, wanting his wages..(.pre-shades of Bertha Manchester!!!)
So now I'm wondering if when she said "He spoke English", she didn't necessarilly mean he was British, only that he wasn't any kind of *foreigner*?

dear members,
i just found out that terence duniho's theory was that WILLIAM A. DAVIS was involved in the borden murders.
i am wondering what his book would have revealed?
i know in my heart of heart's that everybody here would love to see this issue finally put to rest.
because let's face it,none of us are getting any younger.
i keep hesitating to come out in either book or essay form with my research because no matter how much evidence or covincing you do,there will always be doubters.
and from all the research ive done so far,i am 100% convinced that l. borden,john vinnicum morse and william arthur davis CONSPIRED TOGETHER and carried out these murders on thursday August 4th 1892.
please let me know what you think.....
                                         thanks again
                                            jeffery

i have decided to share what information that i have here at the board.
i am talking to my friend in sweden and he is sending me a copy of his essay and i would like to know kat and stefani if it would be alright if i post it here soon and see what the other board members think.
more later......                  thanks jeffery

dear members,
i am still inviting responses to my last post.
ever since that day,there have been so many theories put forth.
she did it!emma did it!
morse did it!
bridget did it!
david anthony did it!
william s. borden did it!
it could only have happened one of 2 ways.
either she killed with her own hands or she had a confederate.
there is enough evidence to go in either direction.
there is only one point about william s. borden that i question,and that is william's birth cirtificate to show who his parents are.
(possibly illigitimate).
so i invite all board members to tell their theories and their basis for them.
                                        thanks jeffery

There were a series of articles by Fritz Adilz published in the LBQ over a long period. 
This was a most excellent  attempt to theorize a solution to the Borden murders, when, why, how, who, called AN ARMCHAIR SOLUTION.
You have reminded me of that.
Is this a basis for Your Theory of the crime?
If so, everyone should get out their copies and read then again, because you'll be in for "a bumpy ride!"

does anyone remember when george quigley used to put up post's about william davis at the darkrose message board?
especially the one where he says that in the 60's he had a coversation with a man named jacob manchester?
george stated manchester was well into his nineties at the time.
and that manchester knew william and his family well.
he supposedly told george that he and william were drinking at a pub in south dartmouth one day,
and that william told him he was only paid to kill andrew but wanted more money from l.borden and morse for killing abby.
i checked city directories and other documents to verify the existence of one jacob manchester.
and found no evidence that he existed at all.
george had the right suspect but made things up to support his theory.
he is doing well by the way.
i spent the afternoon with him a few months ago at his home in fall river.
and i kept asking him about what he knew about jacob manchester and he kept avoiding the subject.
as far as the armchair solution to the borden case in the quarterly.
i agree with most of his essay "on the evidence",but,when he talks about the reason why she bought the poison and when he speculates about conversations between l. borden and morse,william and abby in the guestroom,i disagree with those portions of his theory.
any comments are most welcome.
                                      thanks jeffery

Sounds interesting.
Did you see the thread I created for you, Jeffery, called "Witness Statements--HEAP, pgs. 40-42" with his notes as to the French group of witnesses?
This computer has some old archives stored from the LBMB, I'll take a look for ole' Quigley...may take a little while....kk

dear kat,
could you show me how i can get a look at all the messages from darkrose?
                                   thanks jeffery

I can't help with that...I have no answer.

Did you ever reach Lilly & Darryle?
Has anyone?       kk

(Edit Here--I have just now finished reading most of the threads that are stored in this computer from Winter 2000/Spring 2001 of the Lizzie Borden Message Board.  There is no Geo. Quigley, and no mention of Davis.  They're all fixated on Morse and a Will, with a little Billy Borden thrown in. 
It's amazing how quickly these otherwise interesting discussions degenerated into slam-fests!  Ick)

(Message last edited Jun-4th-02  3:02 AM.)

dear kat,
those threads of quigley's were done during the first year or two of darkrose.
the photo of william davis fits exactly the description given by the six people on pages 40-42 under the heading j.m. heap in the witness statements.
in the statement given by the 16 year old boy,he says, he overheard the man say to the frenchman;"take me to steep brook then"!
i looked thru several maps and an 1892 city directory,i found quite afew people surnamed davis living in steep brook and along wilson road,which leads east thru a wooded area to westport.
i have been constantly working on this clue for well over a month,trying to find any relation between william and one or more of these davis's.i am still working on it.it is my belief that when the frenchman declined to take william to the south part(padanaram village/south dartmouth)of new bedford.
then william asked to be taken to steep brook to one of his relatives to ask that relative to take him to south dartmouth.as to the time the stranger was picked up by the frenchman.in the witness statement of the frenchman,he states that it was between 2:30-3:00 p.m.;but i also saw it stated in more than one newspaper article that it was around 12:30 p.m.i have plenty more to share with you...........

Oh, O.K.
I couldn't figure out why an assassin would still be hanging around town at 2:30, trying to get a ride.
I figured a person who could commit a flawless murder would have set up an escape route or vehicle ahead of time, rather than taking the chance of being stranded.
If you have sources that say 12:30 that's a bit more believable, but which newspapers?
I suppose something could have gone wrong with his escape plan by 12:30, but 2:30 is too incredible.
So how do we see this photo?  And how can it be authenticated as Davis?

Obviously if the waiting buggy in front of the house left, the visitor ("Nemesis") would have to walk miles, or get a ride.

I believe the murders were an unforeseen accident, and not planned to get rid of Abby & Andy. Altho some of the evidence is open to that suggestion

mark chase,the proprieter of the livery stable (diagonally south) across the street from the bordens. testified, at the trial, that as he was walking across the street just a few minutes before 11 a.m. going towards wades store,he saw a horse and buggy with a (man occupying the seat), sitting in front of the borden home.
and when he returned a few minutes after 11a.m. the man and buggy were gone.
after william had murdered andrew he left by the side door and while he was halfway between the side door and the north gate,ellen eagan was passing and saw him there.the man waiting in the buggy was the getaway driver.when ellen saw william,the driver panicked and left him there.and if you read the essay about the hip bath collection in the book "proceedings",barbara ashton had the privelidge of looking into the thin red notebook owned by andrew jennings which contained witness statements taken by jennings during the investigation.
a lady named p.d. conant gave 3 statements.she said that a few minutes after 11 a.m. as she stood on the corner of city hall talking to her daughter minnie reynolds,she saw a man walking rapidly down second street and turned onto pleasant street and proceeded eastward.
he had the reddest looking face and he was of short\medium stature.
his eyes were protruding as if he were very scared about something.
and ray,i believe it was william a. davis and NOT william s. borden that she saw that day.
when you read the description of the man given by the 6 french-canadians given in the witness statements on pages 40-42 under the heading j.m. heap,they said he was wearing a frock coat.
i looked at several web sites with photos and descriptions of frock coats.
it is a long duster coat that goes well below the knees and is made of coarse material.

l. borden in her inquest testimony,testified that she had asked bridget to close the parlor blinds when she got through outside because the sun was so hot.
l. borden testified that the only rooms that she entered that day were the cellar,the kitchen,her bedroom,the sitting room and the dining room.
why the addmission to knowlton of her mention to bridget of closing the parlor blinds? when she never stated ever going into that room that day?
that's because william davis was in the parlor when andrew came home.
and the getaway driver was already outside waiting when andrew came home.
l. borden was an acomplice to andrews murder.
nothing more......

Wow, so Jeffery, do you think that Lizzie wanted Bridget to go into the parlour so that she would get "whacked" too? 

susan,
i was refering to the blinds(shutters)on the outside of the windows.

Oh, sorry, my bad. 

OK, maybe my memory is going.
But what possible reason or motive would Wm A Davis have for murdering both Abby and Andy? I want facts, not speculation after the fact.
I read a reference to "Oliver Twist" Sunday. Isn't that a story about an illegitimate son who does regain his inheritance? A recurring theme in 19th century stories?

What motive can Wm A Davis have in murdering Abby around 9:30, then Andy about 11AM? You can expect crazy things from a madman (Wm S Borden) but why would Lizzie not speak out (if she knew)?

I understand the "parlor game" some people play here (what if ...).

I don't think Jeffery is playing "what if".
It is my understanding that he has been spending time doing serious research, unlike us dillatante's.
His "theory" is not quite exposed yet, so we reserve judgement.  It is still a work in progress.
It does seem to follow along the lines of other published pieces, but I think he is re-forming it to make it uniqueqly (sp) his own.
It sounds as valid, so far, as any other...if not more so, as there are sensible points inherent that are better documented than other theories we could mention.  His scenerio seems to be credible based on already known facts, and not built on fantasy, or "what if's"...

I agree, Kat.  Jeffery has done some pretty detailed research.  Keep up the good work, Jeffery.  What you have done points out (at least to me) that Davis, Lizzie and either Morse or Dr. Bowen were involved in the murder.  I hope we can find that picture of Davis.

joyce g. williams,a casebook of family and crime,page 36:
A MAN WITH A CLEAVER-
griffith's bros.,the carpenters on anawan street,tell a story which may have an important bearing upon the terrible tragedy.
they were driving up PLEASANT STREET ABOUT 11:OO O'CLOCK THURSDAY MORNING when their attention was drawn to a man who was proceeding rapidly along the sidewalk in front of flint's building.
under his arm,with the handle down,he carried a cleaver entirely unlike anything they had ever seen.
it was the si(last letter of alphabet does not work on my computer)e
of the instrument that caused them to take more than a passing glance at it.to them it looked like a tool sometimes used by fish dealers.
it had a rusty appearance,as if it had not been used for some time.
the man was dressed very poorly.
he had no beard and was short in stature.
as the weapon with which the deed was committed has not been found,the carpenters venture the opinion that the cleaver they saw was the means by which mr. borden and his wife were killed.

"he leaned a little to the left when he walked"
gait-(gat)[MeSH:gait] the manner or style of walking.see also gait cycle. under cycle.
cerebellar gait.,a staggering ataxic gait,sometimes with a tendency to fall or lean to one side while walking,indicative of cerebellar lesions.
cerebellar lesions stem from either a primary(non-maligment/non cancerous)or secondary(maligment/cancerous)BRAIN TUMOR!at the time of the borden murders,william apparently suffered from a primary/non-cancerous brain tumor that caused him to lean a little to the left when he walked which eventually turned cancerous(secondary brain tumor)and took his life on may 7th 1900.
much more coming........
                                   thanks jeffery

Am I misunderstanding?
I checked the citation in William's CASEBOOK, pg.36-7, but it doesn't say he leaned to the left.

In Hoffman, pg. 145-6, it has essentially the same information.
However, it gives the source as the Fall River Herald, "the day after the Borden's died."

Have you looked up that paper item...is that where it says he "leaned to the left"?

I read that excerpt from the Casebook early on but didn't consider this person to be a serious suspect.  For one thing, if the Bordens had been killed with an old rusty implement like that, wouldn't it have been obvious?  We know there was some gilt on Abby's skull that appeared to be from a brand-new tool.  Wouldn't an old rusty cleaver (or whatever it was) have left rust?  Wouldn't the cuts themselves have revealed that the weapon used was dull?  As I recall, the medical experts thought a sharp implement was used.

Or, do you think what they perceived as rust from a distance was actually dried blood? 

kat,
in the witness statements on pages 40-42 under the heading j.m.heap,
six people stated that the man "leaned a little to the left when he walked".
there are no other reports.
and,in my last post i shared information that i have exaustively researched
as to what would cause him to walk that way.
i found it in several medical books and on several medical web sites.
......................

If it was ll:00 A. M. on August 4, 1892, the blood on the implement would likely have been wet and glistening.  (Unless this is one of those two-weapon theories, and the odd cleaver was used only on Abby.)Also, carpenters would probably be pretty expert at identifying rusty and disused tools, since they used many different ones in their work, though probably not cleavers.  Dried blood on a metal edge does look quite different from rust.  This is an easy experiment to try at home and doesn't necessitate murdering anyone.  A piece of raw meat will suffice.

I'll have to try out the raw meat experiment, Edisto.  Where and when I can, I don't mind trying out simple experiments. 

i would like to rewrite my earlier post;

Gait-the manner or style of walking.

a cerebellar gait-a staggering ataxic gait,sometimes with a tendency to fall or LEAN TO ONE SIDE WHILE WALKING,indicative of cerebellar lesions.

cerebellar lesions are a type of brain herniation.

this type of brain herniation stems from either a benign/non-cancerous
or a malignent/cancerous...........BRAIN TUMOR!

which in turn,can and will affect one side of the body......

due to this evidence,i am firmly convinced that mr. william arthur davis on thursday august the 4th 1892,was suffering from a benign brain tumor which eventually turned malignent and took his life on may 7th 1900.

william's death certificate listed cause of death as,deposit on brain(brain tumor)and cancer of the neck.

this post is one of several items  that i have spent considerable time looking into.

in the police report taken in the witness statements by officer j.m. heap,on pages 40-42,statements were taken from six french-canadians who lived in flint village.
at least 4 of them stated that"he leaned a little to the left when walking".

i have copies of two signatures of william's,when william,s father isaac case davis died in 1893(year after the murders)he appointed william as executor of his estate.
william signed the document twice.
i found out that william was LEFT HANDED.
more next time...........
                             thanks jeffery

Thanks, Jeffery, for the clarification.

Would you like the Witness Statements that I formed a Thread for, moved to this location?  Or would that clutter this spot?  kk

yes kat,that would help sort things out a bit.
and i would like to hear some response to this subject.
        once again many thanks jeffery

Jeffery,
Did BOTH William "Illigitimate" Borden and William "Butcher" Davis have a hand in the murder?  I have it in my head that they are connected to each other somehow.  I need to re-read Brown "The final Chapter".  Doesn't he make an inference to that?  I sure wish I had Brown's book at the moment.  So many questions, so few books.

(William was left-handed cont')

I copied this from the trial transcript today.
Attorney Adams questioning of Dr. Dolan.
Q: How do you account for the fact. if it be a fact, that there are no spots upon that small table that stood very near the front of the sofa and had books and other objects upon it?
A: In the first place I don't think the assailant swung the instrument in that direction.
Q: You think the assailant swung the instrument from left to right, dont you?
A: Yes, sir
Q: All those blows can be fairly accounted for by blows from left to right?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: That is to say it is a left handed blow?
A: in what sense left handed? delivered by the left hand?
Q: That it strikes the body in a left handed direction from left to right?
A: Yes sir. To a certain extent. Those that are most markedly from left to right are those that would come down directly as the head lies there now and give the direction of the left handed blow.
Q: And all these wounds can be fairly accounted for by blows from left to right?
a:yes sir.
Q:that is to say,by a left handed person?

A: Yes, by a LEFT HANDED PERSON!

Attorney Adams questioning Dr. Draper
Q: Does the fact that the spatters are on the wall to the left of Mr. Borden and that some of the blows have a tread from left to right indicate to you anything as to the direction in which the blows were given.
A: Yes sir.
Q: And does it indicate to you that they were from left to right?
A: THOSE BLOWS WOULD!
Q: from left to right?
Mr. Knowlton: Those blows what?
Mr. Adams: The bevelled blow and one other blow.

A: I think your question involved also the appearance of the blood spots on the wall?
Q: Yes sir. If there were no spots on the carpet in front of the sofa, and if there was a table standing within a short distance of the front of the sofa with articles upon it and if upon that carpet and upon that table were objects upon which no spot of blood were found, would that help you still further in your opinion as to the direction in which the blows were given?
A: In a measure. It would not be incredible though it would be extraordinary, I think, that the table and the articles on it should escape some spots of blood under those conditions.
Q: If the blows were given from right to left, would you not naturally expect the carpet and the table, in view of the fact, that these spots were found in such large numbers on the wall, would have been spattered?
A: I should think it would.

until next time......
jeffery

I was just checking the trial testimony you cited and I do not see where Dolan agrees that the wounds to Andrew are by "A LEFT-HANDED PERSON".  He does admit that certain one could be one-handed blow.

He says (934) the wound that bi-sects the eye (left to right...BUT) not a good deal of an angle, "not markedly."
The wound above the eye angles more markedly so than the other one (as left to right)...BUT it's a glancing blow and shaves off a piece of the eyebrow.   [This seems to imply less control of the weapon]

Dolan also says (946) (The assailant) "Stood behind the head of the lounge, that is between the parlor door and the head of the lounge."

(947)
Q:...from left to right?
A: Yes, sir, to a certain extent.  Those that are most markedly from left to right are those that would come down directly as the head lies there now, and give the direction  of a left handed blow.

(952)
Mrs. Borden left to right blows

(954)
Mrs. Borden top of skull wound right to left.

(960)
Mrs. Borden Q:( Left and right direction?) A: YES

(962)
"I don't think there is necessity to put it either way."

--here I think he is implying that Mrs. Borden's wounds were from different directions, not just left or right.  See Autopsey photo...

--Can you give the page where Dolan says the assailant is Left-Handed?

--BTW:  If Davis has a tumer on the left side of the head/neck, wouldn't it effect his right side?  And vice-versa?




A:

brown-(jennings hip bath collection)
for whatever reason,mr.arthur s. phillips in 1941 elected to comment on mr.jennings' collected hoard of evidence and the continued sequestration of "the mass of documents" by saying,"mr.jennings considered their secracy important to her defence should there be any new phases of police investigation."

mr. jennings as an attorney was well aware of the "double jeopardy" law that clearly states; that once aquitted,a client cannot be retried
for the same crime,no matter what evidence is brought forth against the client at a later date.
nevertheless said client can be later charged in same crime as either an accomplice or as a cospirator.
all depending on the evidence later brought forth.

jeffery
kat,i will clarify my last post and supply page numbers next time.

"brown-(jennings hip bath collection)"
Are you referring to BROWN, the author?

Phillips wrote a newspaper article in 1934 that addressed some of this.  However, after that time, the next thing published (by) Phillips was the History of Fall River, in volumes, 1944 & 1946., posthumasley (sp), which contained this article.
So I don't know what the date 1941 refers to?

Also, by 1903, a majority of the people involved with the murders, and their aftermath, were dead.  It would have been nearly impossible to re-try the case.
Phillips would and did know this in 1934--hence his article.
But of course no one knew this in 1894 or so...

kat,
yes,brown is the author i was refering to.
i believe that i also found this little gem in victoria lincolns book.

would you also be willing to share(post)the 1934 article written by phillips?

william davis died in 1900 and morse in 1912.
the borden trial ended in 1893,the police  could have re-opened the investigation after the trial,but,sadly did not.
why would jennings say it,unless he knew there was something amiss.

as a matter of FACT!
i did find it in lincoln's book.
and kat,it can be found on page 96 of arnold brown's book.

Mr. Brown does not quite quote that Phillips article properly, nor is the date specified correct.  He does tend to overdramatize an already dramatic case, in my view.

The article by Jenning's assistant Arthur Phillips was published in the New Bedford Evening Standard, of May 13, 1934.  Terence Dunihoe xeroxed it for myself and Stefani which culminated in his Lizzie Borden Quarterly offering last issue.  ("Arthur Phillips' Perspective on Lizzie", The Lizzie Borden Quarterly Vol.IX, No.2, April, 2002)

The newspaper account is very hard to read and is not scan-able, nor is it of a length to transcribe here.

However, if you happened to read Ter's article based on this retrospective of Phillips', you will find proofs that Phillips' memory of events and facts are certainly distorted. 

But, Phillips does say, "I entered into a study of the evidential details and of defense _____ under the leadership and direction of Jennings with all that energy which youth posseses____ ___ enthusiasm which exists when a man is released from his preparatory studies, has passed his admission tests and (attempts success?) in his chosen profesion (sic).  Yet during all this period of more than 40 years public consideration has been limited to such facts as were evidenced at the trial plus those disclosed by the prosecution and those revealed by press investigation."

--This does not sound like a man who, going young and fresh into practice, compromised his ideals by cover-up or falsifying information for his "hero" who was defending the Lizzie Borden Case, as Brown's "slant" would have us believe.  (96)

The quote DIRECT from the article as pertains to BROWN'S interpertation:

"The mass of documents and other evidence collected by the defense has never been disclosed or discussed, due to the fact that until the recent death of Miss Borden their secrecy was in the opinion of Jennings inportant to her defense.  He considered that during her life it was improper to disclose facts which were gathered in her interest, and which might by any possiblity be important if the crime were reconsidered  by the District Attorney."

--She paid for her defense.  She OWNED it.

It's my opinion that Jennings believed in her innocence.
Rebello, (296):

"CLUE WAS NO GOOD
Lawyer Jennings Still Unable to Solve the Borden Mystery, Fall River Daily Herald, June 6, 1894: 8"

"A dispatch from Washington, D.C., to the Boston Post says:  Andrew J. Jennings of Fall River, being interviewed about the Borden case, is quoted as saying:
'To this day it is a puzzling mystery, I have never yet been able to solve it.  Superintendent Byrnes of the New York police force said to me that it was a case altogether unprecedented in the annals of crime.  I have never been able to form a satisfactory theory as to the murderer of Mr. and Mrs, Borden.  I thought after the acquittal of Miss Borden that I had found a clue that promised to reveal all, but after working diligently on it for two months realized that it solved nothing.  Miss Lizzie Borden and her sister live very quietly in a house bought after the tragedy.  The former is not seen very much.' "

Hope the quotes can help.
I am not too familiar anymore with Arnold Brown's work. This is just research to share with you if it clarifies things.
My opinion is just my opinion.

This relates to Arnold Brown's work on the case and not specifically to Davis.  Over the weekend, I read an amusing piece in the "Proceedings" of the 1992 conference at Bristol Community College.  It's by one Paul Fletcher, who grew up Irish in Fall River.  In pertinent part, he says, "...a hive of Eagans and Petersons kept what they said was an open secret about old Andrew's alleged illegitimate son Billy Borden (the real murderer they say), and they passed the interesting but unprovable story to Arnie Brown for his recent book..."  This is a hint as to where that premise came from, perhaps.  I also saw some nice pix in an old LBQ of Arnold Brown on a visit to Fall River and the Borden house.  Apparently he was a very charming person and something of a jokester.

edisto,
i know he was not refering to davis.

What we would like to know at this point, does BillyBorden figure into your theory?
Edisto brought up his name, and someone else has wondered if he wil make an appearance.
Or are you dealing with Davis only?

The Phillips excerpt from his History of Fall River was "broken out" by Flynn and published seperately, for those who are interested.  It can be "downloaded" at :
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com
Click on Lizzie's Library
It is the last item listed.

There ARE differences in the news article compared to this work;  not too substantial, though.

Stefani wrote a "Forward" to it explaining it's inception.
Her theory that Easton, Phillips' brother-in-law, wrote the section enclosed within the History is Her Opinion, as the book was published after Phillips' death etc.

I think the news article IS the book section, with some editing by Easton.

no,nothing on william borden,just davis.
william's tumor was on the left side of his brain and affected his right side.

I can't immediately remember what parts of the brain are located in the right side?  What things are governed by that side...

Do you know WHY Davis would do this deed?  What does he Gain?

thanks kat,
you just gave me some homework.
ill post my findings hopefully tomorrow!
                    jeffery

victoria lincoln,page 210;
And fourteen years after Ms. Borden's death, his faithful Mr. Philips was moved to explain that the public had never seen "the mass of documents" because "until the recent (!) death of Miss Borden, " Mr. Jennings (who had predeceased her by five years) considered that "their secrecy was important to her defense." Not because they contained anything incriminating, but because "facts which were gathered in her interest" would "meet any new phases of police investigation" and be "important if the trial should be reconsidered by the District Attorney."
Poor honest, intelligent, sensitive Mr. Jennings! How he would have winced to see the cache in the hip bath thus published and quaintly explained away as a legal ignoramus' fear of double jeopardy for his ex-client! It would be a strange lawyer indeed who did not know that one acquitted of murder is acquitted for good and all, no matter what damning facts are later discovered.

as far as i know,jenning's grandson has the little thin red notebook,
which contains several witness statements relating to the stranger that people saw that day in the neighborhood.
and i also distinctly remember reading in browns book,to the effect that when jenning's daughter(mrs. dwight waring)donated the collection to the historical society that their were firm rumors and firmer denials that the family took back the thin red notebook at that time.

Apparently 3 authors had some access to the "Hip-bath" collection:
Radin
deMille
Ashton

This might help you determine more of what was in it?

i found this article at the new bedford library;
new bedford daily mercury;monday september 5,1892;
"the borden case"
fall river,aug 4,
new interest was awakened in pawtucket R.I. in the borden murder mystery friday.
when a story was repeated that was told by mrs. marshall.
widow of the late john marshall,the hat manufacturer,formely of fall river.
the story is to the effect that she was in fall river on the day of the tragedy.
she went out driving with a lady friend.
their course taking them past the borden residence.
and as near as she can estimate it.
when they drove past the house.
it was not far from the time the murders are thought to have been committed.
one object that attracted her attention,however,was a man who was leaving the house as the team rolled by.
the man is said to have been described by mrs. marshall as so repulsive and evil in appearance as to move her to turn to her companion and remark:"what a villainous looking man".
no more thought of the viscious looking individual by the ladies until,in driving homeward,they again passed the borden house,which was surrounded by people,talking about the murder.
and speculating on who the assassin was.
a reporter called at the residence of mrs. marshall on summit st.
on friday,but failed to get an interview with the lady.
her daughter told the reporter that,at the proper time,her mother, would tell what she had to say to the proper authorities.
but at present she had nothing to say for publication.

there was more to the article,but,i did not have time to write it all down.
there is also a reference to what she saw in hoffman's book under her name.

ellen eagen apparently was not the only person who saw the man coming away from the borden house right after andrews murder.

WITNESS STATEMENTS, pg. 33, Off. Medley:

Fall River September 2, 1892.
In pursuance of orders I this day visited Mrs. John Marshall at Pawtucket. I was unable to secure an interview with her because Mr. Jennings had telephoned to allow no one to see her until he came on. I waited until next day, when Mr. Jennings and I had an interview with her, and she made the following statement. She was out riding in company with Mrs. Robert Marshall in Fall River on the fourth of August. They were going south through Third street about eleven o’clock, or a few minutes after. When opposite Dr. Chagnon’s house, she saw a horse and top buggy, and a man standing beside it. He was not in a hurry, did not seem excited; no blood or anything on his clothing; nothing in his hands, but simply standing beside his carriage, and presently he got in, but did not notice which way he went. He had a red face. In concluding, she said “that is all I know.”

September 8. This day visited Mrs. Robert Marshall at the Melon House. She is what I consider a very upright conscientious woman. After calling in Asst. Marshal, Fleet that he might be a witness to what was said, I inquired of Mrs. Robert Marshall if she concurred In the statement made by her mother in law. She said “No, I cannot. I was with my mother in law on the 4th of August riding out. While I know it will make more or less feeling in my family, yet I must tell The truth, and I cannot say that I saw anything at all either on Third street, or anywhere else, that could be construed into a suspicious circumstance. While on Third street in front of Dr. Chagnon’s house, there was absolutely nothing at all; neither did she call my attention to anything at all. When we passed, the High School Building it was 10.45,she told me so herself. I am sorry I cannot agree with her, but it is my duty to tell what I honestly believe to be the truth.”

--I know my suspects and where to find them.
--Cool news article you cited.
--What do you think?

thanks kat,
i was going to make reference to this in my last post but did not have my copy of the witness statements handy!
are you planning to move the witness statements,pages 40-42 to this topic soon.
thanks jeffery

WITNESS STATEMENTS
pg. 40-42

'J. M. HEAP.

August 14th I saw Ronnald St. Amant. He said that August 4th he was coming from Atwater’s coal yard on Eight Rod Way with a half ton of coal at 2.30 or 3 o’clock. He met a man at the corner of Eight Rod Way and Pleasant street. “The man asked me if he could get in. I told him yes, come on then. He asked me if I could take him to New Bedford. I asked him why he did not take the cars. He said he wanted to go in a team. I asked him if he had a girl with him. He said no. He asked me how much I charge to take him to New Bedford. I said four dollars. He said all right. Then he kept kicking the horse. I made him understand that I had too much load to trot, and he stopped kicking the horse. I asked him what part of New Bedford he wanted to go to. He said the south part. Then he asked me if I could come back at four or five o’clock in the morning. I said it is too late, I want to come back at eleven or twelve. He said that all right, lets hurry up. He came to the woodyard on Jencks street. Before we got there he asked me if I had a buggy. I said no, I have got a carry all. I showed him the carryall. He said it was all right. He got into the carriage before I could hitch the horse to it; then he gave me a five dollar bill, I gave him one back. He wanted the reins, and kept saying hurry up. I saw that he was in a hurry, that I could not change my clothes, so I sent a boy after my coat and vest. The boy brought them. Then my wife came and asked me where I was going. I said, to take this man to New Bedford. She said, I dont want you to take that man to New Bedford. Then she said that there had been some one murdered in the city today. She said it might be bad to take that man to New Bedford. I told her that he had paid me. She said, give him back his money. I do not want you to go to New Bedford. I gave him back his five dollar bill, and he gave me my one dollar bill. As near as I could understand him, he said, I have paid you, and I want to go to New Bedford. I told him my wife did not want me to go. Get out, I dont want to see you here again.

41


Description. Age 28 or 30, height 5 feet 8 inches or 8 and 1/2; weight 175 or 180 lbs; dark complexion; full face; smooth shaven; a little round shouldered, and leans a little to the left when walking; a plain dark suit, cut away coat, a black stiff hat, white shirt and collar, and black bow; black hair.

Mrs. Exentive StAmant said that the man sat in the carriage, his head bent forward, and his hat drawn over his eyes, and kept saying hurry up and get in. When Mr. StAmant said here is your money back, the man said, aint it enough, will you take ten dollars. He took the five dollars and some silver from his pocket. Description. Age 30 or 35 years; height 5 feet 8 or 8 and 1/2 inches; weight 175 or 180 lbs; dark complexion, full face, smooth shaven, black hair, a little round shouldered, and leans a little to the left when walking, a plain dark suit, cut away coat, a black stiff hat, white shirt and collar, and black bow.

John St. Laurant, No. 59 Jencks street. “Saw the man when he came out of he wood yard. He asked me if there is a livery stable around here. I told him there is one on Flint street.”
Description. Age 25 or 30; height 5 feet 6 or 8 inches; weight 150 lbs. dark complexion, rather plain, dark clothes, frock coat, dark derby hat, tight fitting pants, and outing shirt, a little round shouldered, and leans a little to the left when he walks.

Francois Charret, Flint Street, works for Mr. St. Amant. “I was in the wood yard when Mr. StAmant and the man came in. I thought by the looks of the man’s hands and face he worked out of doors. They had the appearance of being sun burned. The inside of his hands was rough and hard, I saw them when he gave the money to Mr. St. Amant. He got into the carryall before we could hitch the horse to it, and kept saying hurry up. When Mr. StAmant said, here is your money back”, the man said “aint it enough, will you take ten dollars. He took the five dollar bill and some silver from his pocket.”
Description. Age 31 or 32; height 5 feet 8 or 8 and 1/2; weight 175 or 180 lbs. dark complexion, full face, smooth shaven, a little round shouldered, and leaned a little to the left when walking, a plain dark suit, cut away coat, a black stiff hat, white shirt
and collar and black bow.
“I saw the man go to Pleasant street. He stood at the corner of Pleasant and Jencks street a minute, then started towards New Bedford.”

Joseph Michaud, age 16, lives on Jencks street. “I saw the man in the team in the wood yard. When Mr. StAmant said he could not take him to New Bedford, he said, take me to Steep Brook then.”
Description. Age 40, dark complexioned, height 5 feet 8 inches, dark clothes, white shirt, and collar, black bow.

42


Alexander Cote lives on Jencks street, works at Arcand’s. “A man came to the stable August 4th at 3.30 o’clock P. M. and asked me if he could be carried to New Bedford. I Said no sir.”
Description. Age 29 or 30, height 5 feet 8 or 9 inches, weight 180 or 190 lbs. dark complexion, full face, dark cut away coat, no vest, no tie, an outing shirt. When he went from the barn, he went towards Alden street.'

Jeffery,
Here are 2 sites to visit if you like, that try to explain the "Left-Brain / Right- Brain" mystery.

If Davis had a tumor on his left neck and head then that would effect his right side of his BODY?  (If it WEAKENED the right side, he might lean to the ???)

http://www.viewzone.com/bicam.html

http://www.mtsu.edu/~devstud/advisor/LRBrain.html

kat,i found this news article yesterday;
new bedford daily mercury-
friday aug 24-
more theories
a reporter examines the scene of the tragedy;
on the door to the parlor there were still a few spots and others had been washed off.
on the carpet between the head of the sofa and this door was a single spot.
these spots on the dining room door case,parlor door and the carpet,were,in the opinion of the officers,drips from the hatchet or instrument with which the murder was committed.
nearly all of them are TO THE LEFT OF A PERSON STANDING IN THE POSITION ASCRIBED TO THE MURDERER!
could the executioner have escaped getting drops upon the clothing?
was the striking the act of a LEFT HANDED PERSON?
the direction of the cuts will be interesting testimony upon this point.

and when i recieve my borden case cd-rom hopefully next week, which includes the trial transcript,i will be able to clarify what i posted in relation to the testimony of dr's dolan and draper.

Well, I CAN say that the blood on the dining room door frame was discounted on the stand by Prof. Wood as not being blood after all, but something "yellowish" like soup or tobacco juice.

I don't know if it affects your theory or not;  it may not matter.

As to left-handedness, how do you know if Davis was left-handed?  I really was wondering about this aspect, mainly because we don't even know it about Lizzie, and she's more of a major character, if you know what I mean...(?)

I've always "understood" that Lizzie was right-handed.  Didn't the defense seem to be pushing the theory (without much success, I might add) that the killer was left-handed? Why would they have done that if Lizzie herself was left-handed?  I'll have to look in my trial testimony to see where I got that idea. Her handwriting might also hold a clue.  Having had two siblings who were left-handed, I've heard many comments about their handwriting looking "funny."  My mother (right-handed) always said they were writing "upside-down."

Yes, kat, I recall reading that too, Lizzie was a rightie.  Now, its just a matter of sifting through all my reference material and see if I can find it. 

a few years ago i was reading an issue of the quarterly volume v,number1,jan,1998.
on page 10 there is an article titled john vinnicum morse,
"i sat on his lap".
mrs. doris reed grimwade is the grandaughter of emma davis(tucker)
emma davis is the older sister of william a. davis.
i called her son mr. roger reed grimwade by phone and he sent me a copy of williams family tree.
we mantained phone and letter correspondence up untill a few months ago.
i wrote him and asked him if his mother knew anything about william.(she was 98 at the time.)
in his response, he said, that she knew some things about william.(but he did not tell me what they were,"strange")
so, i wrote him again, asking the same question.
finally, he responded and told me that she said,"oh,it's  nothing in particular,just that his family loved him.(so, it goes from several items to just this one.)
in the davis family tree i found out that william has a grandson named ramon winston davis.
i called ramon(and sent letters with no reply) and asked him what he could share with me about william.
and if he had owned,or ever saw a photo of william.
he replied that he knew NOTHING about his grandfather and has never seen a photo either.
william's widow sophia sanford wilcox davis,died in 1947.
issac case davis(william's son)died in 1966.
ramon was 25 when sophia died and was 44 when isaac died.
they all lived in the same house together for years.
not to mention william's daughter alice.
and are we to believe that when ramon was growing up in that house that his grandmother and his uncle among others never told him (stories)anything about his grandfather.

willam davis is buried in south dartmouth(padanaram cemetery)on elm st.in an unmarked grave.
so last summer mr. grimwade and mr. davis(who had not seen one another in 50 years) agreed to meet with me.
i met mr.grimwade at the cemetery and we looked at the plots of the family for awhile.
we then drove over to ramon's house.
when i met ramon,it blew me away,he looked just like the man in the photo(that i believe is william davis).
i am recieving my second copy of the photo next week by the way.
and the photo most definitly corresponds with the description given in the witness statements by the 6 people in flint village.

new bedford daily murcury-
who is this man?
the stranger who was so axious to reach new bedford.

fall river,aug,11;
the terrible looking stranger who overtook ramauld st. amant on eight rod way(now plymouth ave),last thursday afternoon,climed upon his heavily laden wagon and urged him to drive him to new bedford,at the same time thrusting money into his hand,was seen and perticularly noticed by several persons in flint village.
mr. st. laurent,a grocer,says he saw him coming from st. amant's wood yard on jencks street,after the latter,at the instance of his wife,had refused to carry the stranger to new bedford,and was struck by his appearance.
he was ghastly white and seemed much agitated.
mr. laurent was so much afraid of him that a sensation came over him when the man passwd behind him;that he looked mean enough to strike one.(in the photo of the man ,as you will see for yourself later,the man had an onery and serious look.)
the stranger asked him if there was a livery stable in the vicinity and st. laurent directed him to george e. arcand's place on flint st.
the man went to arcand's stable and hurriedly said:can i get a horse right away to go to new bedford?
but mr arcand's foreman,alex cote,refused to comply with his request,saying he did not let horses to strangers.
that was the last seen of the enquirer.
all agree that he was about 30 years of age and about 5 feet 6 high.
he was of dark complexion and his face looked newly shaved.
his clothing was dark.
he had a slight mark over the nose.
he seemed to have plenty of money,and his sole,absorbing desire seemed to be to get away quickly.
st. amant suggested that he go to new bedford by train,but the stranger remarked that he "did not have time".
the man in the photo is also clean shaven(95% percent of men at that time had either a beard,mustache or both.
ramon davis has blue eyes\and so does the man in the picture.
ramon is short/medium height(like the man in the witness statements.)
i have a whole lot more to write,but will take my time.
               thanks jeffery






 

Soup or tobacco stains on a door frame? Unbelievable!!!
Who would spit on a door frame? Or splash soup?
It sounds like some smeared blood stains to me. But I wasn't there to see it. What about any kind of scientific tests?

Jeffery, it is outstanding work you have done to unravel all that.  I can't wait to read more about this.  Thanks for your many posts about Davis.
jc

why did l.borden send bridget for dr.bowen and then alice russell instead of sending for the police after giving the alarm,agnus demille wrote in her book;a dance of death,that she had several interviews with eva kelly(daughter of dr. kelly.)
she says that mrs. churchill,neighbor on the dining room side of the house,was just returning from shopping in "stores like ovens,"and saw bridget rushing by in her shawl,saw l. borden fixed at the screen door,and after hastily putting down her parcels,called out to her.
l. borden made 2 or 3 noncommital remarks about the heat,about being alone,after which-but only after which-she said, "someone has killed father."
mrs. churchill did not officially report this significant delay.
she mentioned it only long after the trial to mrs. kelly.

l. borden did not anticipate mrs. churchill stumbling onto the scene.

i believe from the actions of miss borden that the only reason she did not call for the authorities right away was because she wanted to buy time for the killer to get away.

I thought Lizzie actually invited Mrs. Churchill over.  That's according to Mrs. Churchill, who probably wouldn't have had a reason to lie.  That wouldn't be quite the same as "stumbling on the scene," which would have been hard for Mrs. Churchill to do, given the fact that the crime scene was inside the Borden house.  When Mrs. Churchill asked "What's the matter, Lizzie?" the response could have been "Oh, nothing.  Hot, isn't it?  Seen any good stereoscope shows lately?"  -But Lizzie actually said (according to Mrs. Churchill, as I recall), "Oh, Mrs. Churchill, do come over.  Someone has killed Father."  I would consider that an invitation, even if it wasn't the most amusing one I'd received all season.

that's not what i meant.
mrs.churchill came into the picture,that's what i meant!

This is something I had always wondered about. 
In the CASEBOOK OF FAMILY AND CRIME, Williams, et.al., pg.17:

"Bridget left again to fetch the frail Miss Russell and was observed by Mrs. Churchill, the Borden's neighbor on the north side.  The sight of Bridget running to and fro, gasping, led Mrs. Churchill, who saw Lizzie standing inside the screen door, to use her neighborly prerogative and ask if there was any trouble.

Lizzie's answer was remarkable.  She made two or three comments about the heat, then said: 'Do come over.  Someone has killed father.'

...Mrs. Churchill hurried over...

...Mrs. Churchill took charge:  She crossed the street to the stable and asked for help..."

--There is a footnote at the bottom of this page:
"Mrs. Churchill did not tell the police or the court of Lizzie's inconsequential prelude to the news of her father's death.  Only after the trial did she tell the neighbor, Mrs. Kelly, these details."--Williams.

--As I thought about this, I realized other writers had also brought up this delay that supposedly was attested to by Mrs. Kelly's descendent.
They also have remarked that no one was really getting anything done about summoning real help, until Mrs. Churchill *took over*.  I suppose it depends on how one views the actions of that day, and how much believability to give to the daughter of Mrs. Kelly:  i.e:  Second Generational anechdote (sp).  (I'd look it up but I have an ice pack on my knee that I just bashed).
--I know I'm not telling Edisto anything she doesn't already know...but am filling anybody else in that hadn't heard this before.

Sorry to force another post on y'a'll right after one of mine, but I just received a photo I'd like to put here for Jeffery to examine: Is this the photo you had referred to earlier?

yes kat, this is the photo.
where did you find it at.
and have you heard anything about it.

Jeffery,
I don't mean to sound coy.
I really don't know anything about this photo.
It's been hanging around for a year or so.
It was "collected" and saved, without knowing WHOSE picture it really was.
I think it may have started out as a misrepresentation of another character in the case.
So now I'd like to ask YOU it's provenance...what do you know about it?  It's got to be more than I do.

I love that comment about "frail" Alice Russell.  Alice was born in 1852 (Hoffman), so she was 40 years old when the murders happened.  She came to the Borden house, which must have been a terribly scary place to spend even a few minutes.  She stayed there with the Borden sisters for several days, even going down cellar with Lizzie at night into the very room where the bloody clothing of the victims was reposing.  She was courageous enough to tell the story of Lizzie's dress-burning episode.  Unlike the Borden "girls," Alice always worked for a living and actually made some advances for herself in the working world.  She lived until 1941, which means she was 89 when she died - a very ripe old age in those days.  She may have been tall and skinny, but I'd hardly call her frail!  (This might mean we can't trust everything in the "Casebook" either.)

IMHO, Lizzie acted fairly normally with regard to getting an alarm out when she discovered her father's body.  She probably wasn't sure whether he was dead or just badly hurt.  There was no telephone in the house, so she quickly summmoned the only other person there (as far as we know) and sent her to get a doctor.  Although the doctor wasn't home, Bridget reported that he would be over as soon as he returned home.  Lizzie then sent for somebody responsible and level-headed who was close to her, Alice Russell.  Surely Lizzie realized either Dr. Bowen or Alice was likely to report the matter to the authorities.  In the interim, Lizzie invited Mrs. Churchill over, and when Mrs. Churchill suggested looking for another doctor, Lizzie didn't object.  I can't see that Lizzie made any effort to buy time or keep word from getting out.

It sounds as though Lizzie may have been in shock, or deep in thought.  To make a couple of comments about the heat and then, oh, by the way, father has been killed, do come over.  Thats what I get from Mrs. Churchill's later story.

I agree with you, Edisto, if she was trying to buy time and run around the house and hide incriminating evidence and such, I don't think she would have just stood in the back doorway and then invite Mrs. Churchill over. 

Living to 89 then or now is not overly remarkable. Partly genetic, partly on healthy eating, drinking, exercise, etc.

Did I once read where nuns tend to live longer than the avg woman? Does being unmarried and chaste improve your chances for long life? If so, is this some kind of weird joke where non-procreation helps the individual but is really bad for manking?

If you live healthily to 40, your chances improve for longer life.

But standing in the doorway (being a lookout?) could allow time for "somebody" to escape out the back cellar door?
I'm in favor of her innocence before the fact.

Oh, the CASEBOOK is not really reliable, you're right, Edisto.
For those not familiar with the book:
A percentage of it is based on newspapers and a percentage on Williams' reading of other sources (and attendant *filtering*), and a percentage of her interviews with descendants.  That's the 2nd and 3rd hand stuff we take with a *grain*...but there is also first hand accounts made by people who were mere children at the time of Lizzie's infamy, who may not have exact *recall*.

I've come to wonder about Mrs. Kelly from these type of sources.
Apparently she was in the inner circle of the *klatch*--those who were intimately involved with the aftermath of the crime, but who were not family.  There is the story that not only Mrs. Churchill told her things after the trial, but that Alice Russell did, also!  I have come to picture in my mind a *coffee-klatch* comprised of these 3 where they either gossiped or were virtually de-briefed at these sessions, a year or more after Lizze & Emma moved away from Second Street...

Do you think its possible, Kat?  I mean, after the trial, Lizzie and Emma both snubbed Alice Russell.  The "girls" left the area, and I'm sure inquiring minds wanted to know.  Can't you just picture one of the woman of the neighborhood, including Mrs. Kelly, asking Mrs. Churchill and Alice over to tea or coffee.  I can't imagine that they would hold their tongues forever.  There must have been some talk? 

I was waiting to respond until Edisto had a chance.  I thought her remarks would be very interesting, insightful.

Proceedings, BCC Conference, 1993.
Chapter Heading:  "They Would Like to Have Been Cultured Girls:  An Analysis of the Testimony of Alice Russell During the Prosecution of  Lizzie Borden."
by Robert T. Johnson, Jr., pg 225+

"That Alice knew more than she ever testified to is hinted at in her testimony and elsewhere.  Thus in testifying at the trial about the Saturday afternoon search, she said that 'they made a search, but they didn't search everywhere.' (T. 411)  She went on to say that they unlocked one or two of Lizzie's bureau drawers but did not search anymore there, that she did not think they searched very much in Lizzie's toilet room but instead 'just looked there a little,' and they did not search much in Emma's room, just looked in the cupboard and took the bed apart and 'that is all that I saw.' (T. 412)  According to Agnes de Mille, Alice later told the Borden's neighbor, Mrs. Kelly, that the search was not 'an entirely thorough search,' and 'they didn't search everwhere.' (D.o.D., 50).  Miss de Mille also reports that Alice told Mrs. Kelly 'that there were places she knew about they should have searched and things they might have found.'  (de Mille gives no source for this information)  We do not know if Alice ever told what else she may have known about the murders;  a cousin of Alice's told the author that Alice told the cousin's mother only that ' whatever Lizzie did was right in her own heart.'  "

--The main "talkers"of the town, were Eva Kelly Betz, Mrs. Dwight Jennings Waring, Mrs. Sylvia Knowlton Lewis, Victoria Lincoln, and Florence Brigham, and Mrs. Ellis Gifford.

--There seemed to be SOME kind of conferring going on with Mrs. Kelly.  I can imagine it...maybe it did happen?

Well, having lived in two small towns in my life, I can see how that happens.  One person hears something and next thing you know, everyone in town knows your business whether you wanted them to know or not.  Everybody loves a little gossip and I'm sure any insight anyone could give on the Bordens would be snatched up and spread quickly!!! 

It might seem like a meeting of Survivors of a Great Catastrophe, or a kind of *group therapy* of post traumatic stress disordered people:  Alice & Mrs. Churchill & Mrs. Kelly getting together AFTER trial, to compare notes...
These were common, everyday people like our own neighbors (tho admittedly less sophisticated), caught up in notoriety, infamy, murder, newshounds, gigantic rewards, C O U R T.  How did they ever overcome all this...how did they Learn to Deal With IT?

I especially like the last quote above...(notice, once again, it is from Alice's cousin's memory of what her mother always said...)--BUT, it seems the most believable and truthful sentiment of anything 2nd hand we've heard so far.  It's beautiful in it's loyal simplicity:
"Whatever Lizzie did was right in her own heart."

Alice sounds loyal to the end...

For years, I lived in a town in North Carolina that was comparable in size to Fall River.  Gossip was a big industry there.  I recall a story that once circulated to the effect that a passenger train had stopped near town.  Authorities had taken off a dead body.  The coroner found that the deceased person (a young woman) had died of multiple human bites.  Nobody seemed to know whether anyone had been charged with her murder.  Only a brief story appeared in the local paper, and it didn't mention human bites at all.  Years later, I had a job in the county registry of deeds, which was also the registry of death certificates.  I recalled the old story and looked up the woman's death certificate, which had been prepared and filed locally.  Yes, the body did bear several distinct human bites, according to the certificate, but they had been inflicted AFTER death.  That's probably even more bizarre than the story that had circulated, but in fact the gossip we had heard was off the mark.  (I guess it wasn't against the law to chew on a dead body in Cumberland County, NC.)  I mention this unpleasant and O/T story to illustrate how gossip often departs markedly from the truth.

Thanks, Edisto,
Your stories are always interesting and contain that needed grain of common sense.  It is always helpful for us to remember the role gossip plays in strange cases--and the role of reporters to fan that interest.

Jeffery:
That photograph displayed earlier was received as "WHO".jpg., and apparently it was NOT a "misrepresentation" of another character in the case (Now find out it was thought to be Andrew, young?), but rather a *mis-identified* photo belonging to the files of the FRHS. (?)  Maybe the FRHS can determine of whom this is a photograph.  Good Luck, and let us know if you find out anything...

l. borden was right handed and william davis was left handed!
it will cost ,but,i am in contact with several handwriting experts and will let you know the results.

im still waiting on my cd-rom,at which time i will clarify my earlier post relating to the trial testimony of dr.'s dolan and draper and their testimony regarding "from left to right" in the murder of andrew.




                                 

Conspiracy Theory
"Whodunit?: An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery," Ms. Borden Quarterly, vol.2, no.3, Summer/1994:11-12
"Whodunit-Part 2/ An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery," Ms. Borden Quarterly, vol.2,no.4/5, Fall Winter, 1995:12
"Whodunit?-Part3/An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery," Ms. Borden Quarterly,2,no.6, Winter/1995:4
"Whodunit?Part-4/An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery," Ms. Borden Quarterly, vol.3,no.1,January/1996:6
"Whodunit? An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery," Ms. Borden Quarterly, vol.3, no.2, April/1996:6
"Whodunit? An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery: Some Clairifications and Modifications-Part One,"Ms. Borden Quarterly, vol.4, no.2, April/1997:10-14
"Whodunit? An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery: Some Clarifications and Modifications-Conclusion,"Ms. Borden Quarterly, vol.4, no.3,July/1997:10-14
The Theory put forth these issues is that L.Borden, John Morse and William Davis conspired together to murder Andrew and Abby Borden, and William Davis did the actual killing.

An Armchair Solution to the Borden Mystery.
John V. Morse gives a similar reason at the pre-trial:
Q:Did you have some business of Mr. Borden over there (at the farm)?
A:Yes, sir.
Q:I do not care to go in for particulars of it. You had some business relating to Mr. Borden at the farm?
A:Yes, sir.
Q:Something about hiring a man,was it not?
A:I went more particularly over there that day to see about some cattle I bought of him. I thought I would make arrangements to take them.
Now Mr. Morse has giaven two reasons, one supplanting the other, for coming to Fall River, information about a man to hire and buying cattle. He has given one reason for going over to the Borden farm, making arrangements to take the cattle. After asking about other things, Mr. Knowlton returns to Mr. Morse's visit to the farm.
Q:Did you give(Mr.Eddy) and message from Mr. Borden?
A:No, sir.
Q:Or tell him Mr. Borden sent you over there?
A:No,sir. There was one thing I forgot: I got some eggs from there for Mr. Borden;that is all.
In the abovementioned interview with Mr. Morse on August 4, he is quoted to have said, when talking of his visit to the farm:"(Mr.Borden)asked me to bring him over some eggs from his farm, which is there located.
Mr. Eddy is quoted to have said the following when questioned by State Detective Seaver on August 11: "(Mr. Morse) said Mr. Borden sent him over to see how I was and get the eggs," Mr. Eddy said that Mr. Morse stayed just ten to fifteen minutes. During this period it was Mr. Eddy, not Mr. Morse, who raised the question about the cattle:"I said to him, after he got the eggs,'How about the oxen Mr.Davis of South Dartmouth was to have to use?' 'I am going back to see Mr. Borden, and think we will make arrangements to get them back over Saturday morning,'was the reply.
Then Mr. Eddy gives a very interesting piece of information. He says according to Mr. Seaver:"Since hearing of the murder, it has seemed to me a singular coincidence that he should have come that night for the eggs for, had he not, I should have taken the train and gone to Mr. Borden's Thursday morning, arriving at the house about quarter to eleven or eleven." Mr. Eddy also said that he always had eaten dinner with the Bordens, when he went to Fall River, unless he did not come too late for that.
One has to agree with Mr. eddy, that it was really a singular coincidence-unless it was part of a plan, of course-that John Morse should come for the eggs, thus preventing that Mr. Eddy went to the Borden house, for had he done so, he would have ruined the day for the killer.
I think Mr. Morse found out about the eggs, either because it was a fixed routine, as so many other things in the Borden household, that Mr. Eddy should bring eggs every Thursday forenoon and because Ms. Borden told him about this routine, or because he learned that Mr. Eddy was expected the next morning during the converstation he had with Mr. and Mrs. Borden before going to Swansea. He knew he had to go out there and fetch the eggs himself...or the morrow's plan would be overthrown.
Incidentally, what happened to the eggs? I suppose Mr. Morse brought them back in the "rattan basket" in which he carried the pears for Mr. Eddy. But Mr. Morse did not mention the eggs and neither does Bridget.
I find it suspicious that he denied that Mr. Borden had sent him to Mr. Eddy for the eggs at the pre-trial. He apparently wanted to give the impression he went to Swansea to arrange for the cattle transfer and that Mr. Eddy took the opportunity to give some eggs for Mr. Borden. But this does not tally with Mr. Eddy's statement. Well, he was probably truthful insofar that Mr. Borden did not send him. He went on his own initiative.
Another suspicious thing is the cattle transfer. Mr. Morse said at the pre-trial that the reason for going to Swansea that day was to make arrangements to take them. But what arrangements did he make? When Mr. Eddy brought the matter up, Morse just said he would see Mr. Borden about taking the oxen on Saturday morning. (Why was the necessary? He just came from Mr. Borden.)
According to Mr. Eddy, Morse stayed about ten to fifteen minutes. Why should it be neccessary to travel some twenty miles, half under a hot sun, just to informa Mr. Eddy that Saturday morning would be a good time to get those oxen over to Mr. Davis? Why not just call him-I believe there was a telephone at the farm-or send him a "postal?" Or just wait until Saturday? The obvious answer are the eggs.
I think Mr. Morse's statements and actions discussed here cast a strong suspicion that he had a hand in the murders.
John Morse had an airtight alibi. He left the Bordens at about quarter to nine (he looked at his watch). He went to the post office, left by the north door, walked up Bedford street to Third street and then via Pleasant street to Weybosset street. He left the Emery's (the family he was visiting) at about 20 minutes past eleven(he again,looked at his watch). He took a street car down Pleasant street, got off at Second Street, and walked up to the Borden home. The street car conductor could identify him, as could the conductor of a passing street car.
To Be continued......

Continued from the theory.
That both conductors and especially the one in the passing car could remember Mr. Morse indicates that he must have acted in such a way as to attract attention to himself. David Kent and Victoria Lincoln both say that Mr. Morse also had remembered the number of the street car as well as the number on the conductor's cap.
If Ms. Borden and her uncle had an agent committing the murders for them, one would expect them to have as airtight an alibi as possible.
I think Mr. Morse's alibi is too good and therefore casts suspicion on him.
When John Morse left the Borden home Thursday morning Mr. Borden called out to him:"John, come back to dinner with us!" That was overheard by the maid. Mr. Morse said he answered:"Yes." He also said he had told his hosts on Weybosset street this:
Q:Did they ask you to stay to dinner?
A:Yes, sir. I told them I had another engagement.
Q:The engagement you had was that engagement to dine with yoru brother? (Brother-in-law, I assume he meant).
A:Yes.
When Officer Medley questioned Mrs. Emery on August 4, she told him she had asked Mr. Morse to stay to dinner, "but he declined, saying something about going to New Bedford, to which place they understood he was going after leaving the house."
Victoria Lincoln says that Bridget, unlike her friends, got all Sunday and Thursday from just before dinner off. As far as this Thursday is concerned, her statement is born out of her own testimony.
Q:What was Ms.Borden saying?
A:She asked was I going out this afternoon. I told her I did not know now, I might and I might not...
Mr. Borden was to be killed after he returned to dinner, which usually took place around noon. Bridget wuld then be out or possibly in her room.
John Morse, who knew Mr. Borden was not feeling well, must have calculated with both possibilites, either that his host would return around noon as usual, or that he might come home some time earlier, and he must have made his plans accordingly. If the deed was done early, he would go back to the Borden house. Therefore, he had to get some kind of signal, so he would know. Such a signal could have been in form of a call at the door or on the phone.
A confusing statement is made by Officer Medley. He says Mr. Morse told the reporter Edwin Porter of the Daily Globe that the first he knew of the murders was when he was telephoned for. Could it be that Mr. MOrse made a slip of the tongue? Or did he never say this? Mr. Porter does not report on this in his book.
In case there was no signal, Mr. Morse would leave the Emery's at an appropriate time before dinner to catch a train back to New Bedford or South Dartmouth and wait for intelligence there. As he had brought no luggage with him, he would not have to go back to the Borden's. (And he had come by train, so he had no horse team to fetch).
Now, let us assume that Mrs. Emery invited Mr. Morse to stay for dinner before he got his signal. That would create a dilemma for him. If he accepted and then got his signal, he would have to excuse himself to go back to the Borden home. That would seem peculiar to his hosts. If he declined, saying Mr. Borden expected him for dinner and he did not get the signal, he could not go back there and must go directly to New Bedford.
The coming investigation would surely attract suspicion to him.
to be continued......

sorry,i was supposed to put this first.

as many writers of the borden case have pointed out,
the borden sisters uncle john v. morse is a great mystery.
much of what he said and did in connection with the murders is littered with question marks.
i think it is difficult to find a common denominator to all these oddities other than the presumption of his having a hand in the murders.
i will now discuss the links i consider the most important in a chain of circumstantial evidence leading to my belief in his guilt.
since morse had come back east in april,1890,he had been a fairly frequent visitor to the borden home.
in his inquest testimony he says that he came"sometimes once a week,sometimes once in three or four weeks,sometimes in three months,just as it happened,"and that he quite often stayed overnight.
the last time he had been there before august 3 was around july 10 and before that at the end of june.
now he came on wendsday august 3rd,the day before the crimes.
if it was not part of the plan,it must be looked upon as a coincidence
strange enough to raise an eyebrow.
so why did he come?
he gives two different reasons.
in his inquest testimony he offers as an explanation that he had,on mr. borden's request,been looking for a man to take charge of the latter's farm in swansea and that he now knew someone who would fit and offered to send this man over.
but mr. borden wanted to see morse first.
as proof of what he said,mr. morse produced a letter,dated july 25th.
Q:you came partially in responce to that request?
A:yes,sir.
partially or not,no other reason for his coming is hinted at in this interrogation which took place on august 10th.
the fall river herald published an interview with mr. morse on august 4th.
he is quoted as saying the following:"I had come to fall river for one reason.to buy a apir of oxen for butcher davis,with whom i lived.
he had wanted them,and i had agreed to take them on a certain day,but had not done so.andrew told me when i was ready to go after them to write him(mr.eddy)at the farm,which would save (mr.borden)bothering in the matter.
to be continued.....

an armchair solution to the borden murders con't....

if on the other hand he declined the invitation,saying,that ha had things to do in south dartmouth and then got his signal,he he would simply take leave and go back to second street.
if he was questioned about why he had told mrs. emery he was going to new bedford,he could say that he had suddenly remembered mr. borden's invitation.
that would perhaps not be very polite towards mrs. emery,but it would certainly not cause any suspicions.
as it happened mr. knowlton never got wind of this excuse.in any case he did not follow it up.
if he did not get his signal he would proceed from the emery's to new bedford or south dartmouth,and if questioned about it later,he would say that he had simply forgot about mr. borden's invitation.
and as has already been said,he had no luggage and no horse and buggy to pick up.
i find it very suspicious if mr. morse told mrs. emery he was going directly to new bedford,when he had already accepted an invitation from mr. borden.
the rumor of the murders began to spread at about 11:15,when john a. cunningham phoned marshall hilliard at the fall river police station.
when mr. morse arrived at about 11:40 there was a crowd outside in the street.
there were also people in the yard and charles sawyer stood guard at the back door.
mr. morse ignored all this and went th