Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY Topic Area: Stay to Tea Topic Name: Kristen Gilbert  

1. "Kristen Gilbert"
Posted by harry on Aug-3rd-03 at 2:27 PM

Fall River's prolific murderess. From today's Herald News:

http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=9943480&BRD=1710&PAG=461&dept_id=99784&rfi=6

She's got our Lizzie beat in numbers that's for sure.


2. "Re: Kristen Gilbert"
Posted by William on Aug-3rd-03 at 4:33 PM
In response to Message #1.

Gripping story, Harry, I hereby appoint you as our official Herald News correspondent.

Seems I remember Kristen writing a long letter to me about ten years ago about her adventures.
. . . now where did I put it?

(Message last edited Aug-3rd-03  4:36 PM.)


3. "Re: Kristen Gilbert"
Posted by harry on Aug-3rd-03 at 4:54 PM
In response to Message #2.

Now that would be scary.. getting a letter from her.  If she writes again don't eat anything she might enclose.

No doubt she had heard of the prussic acid story.


4. "Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by harry on Aug-4th-03 at 7:30 AM
In response to Message #2.

Your intrepid Herald News reporter on the spot again.

This mornings paper features an article not on Lizzie but that other Fall River area murder, the slaying of Bertha Manchester.

http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=9946522&BRD=1710&PAG=461&dept_id=99784&rfi=6

The forum is referred to as well as a quote from a forum member.  Yea, it's me. Something I said way back in April 2002.  Now that's digging in the archives!  Post #2 in this thread:

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive0602/LB/ArchiveLBBertha.htm

Kat and I created a Betha Manchester document from the pages of the New Bedford Evening Standard and we found how there were little sources for information on the crime.  The Herald article says a relative of the accused murderer wants to write a book on it.  Hooray!!!


5. "Re: Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by Susan on Aug-4th-03 at 9:28 PM
In response to Message #4.

Thanks for all the info, Harry!  Now I have to wonder if Kristen has ever lurked on this forum before, isn't that a scary thought? 


6. "Re: Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by Tina-Kate on Aug-4th-03 at 9:40 PM
In response to Message #4.

Harry, that is so cool...you reading the Herald News & finding yourself quoted!


7. "Re: Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by stefani on Aug-4th-03 at 11:21 PM
In response to Message #6.

That is the same writer that did the pieces about Maplecroft. At the time of all that we spoke on the phone and I sent her to the forum to read "all about it". I am so glad she decided to use us as a resource. Congrats Harry! Too bad she didn't mention your name. So there you have it, what you say here in public CAN make you famous, even anonymously!


8. "Re: Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by Kat on Aug-5th-03 at 1:59 AM
In response to Message #4.

We had also guided a "Jason" to the Victorian Vistas books for info on Fall River.  Maybe the Jessie Hardy saw that and used it as a resource...it's cited in her work.  That's amazing.

In the article tho, did you notice the phrase *Turkey red*?
:  " 'The blood had been profuse,' said The Fall River Weekly News, running through the floor boards and pudding in the cellar. 'She wore a calico turkey red dress ... black stockings and inexpensive worn shoes.' "

Well, in an undated submission to the Knowton papers someone sent in a session with OUIJA and started with that phrase.  Maybe they were mimicking info they had read about the Manchester slaying?
...
The Knowlton Papers, The Commonwealth of Massachusetts vs. Lizzie A. Borden, 1892- 1893, Fall River Historical Society, 1994, pg. 339- 345, typewritten transcript, #HK329:

"O U I J A
_________

Q.  What about the Borden case?
A. Axe - Turkey red - vest - suds - stairs." .....



(Message last edited Aug-5th-03  2:02 AM.)


9. "Re: Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by harry on Aug-5th-03 at 8:09 AM
In response to Message #7.

It also shows the need to be as factual as possible in these posts and to distinguish between opinion and known facts.  Like it or not the internet displays your remarks to anyone caring to come to the website. 

I would have never expected a minor, off-hand comment made 1-1/2 years ago to show up in an article in the newspaper.  Luckily I didn't stick my foot in my mouth. 


10. "Re: Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by bobcook848 on Aug-9th-03 at 8:46 PM
In response to Message #9.

The article that Harry has cited in posting #1 from the Fall River paper also appeared in The Times (Pawtucket, RI) Monday August 4th edition page A6 titled, "Lizzie Borden researchers wonder if crime was linked to yet another Fall River murder".

In essence the two stories are identical.  But the part that get me is that the man accused of murdering Bertha Manchester is referred to as "Jose Correia DeMello" (we know the name Correia has been spelled at least three different ways by different authors) but it is the DeMello addendum that puzzles me.

I cannot find any mention in any form of this man having the last name of DeMello.  I did ask someone very recently about this annomaly and it was suggested that perhaps the "DeMello" portion was his mother's maiden name.  Sounds plausible, as I have known modern Portugese families to do that, add the mother's maiden name to the surname.

Maybe someone here can shed some light on this.  I have written to Emerson College via email asking that the long lost grand-daughter, Jessie Moniz Hardy get in touch with one of us here on the forum for additional help.  So far haven't heard a reply.  Would like to talk to her and get more info on her famous great-great-grand-cousin.


bobcookbobcook


11. "Re: Bertha Manchester article"
Posted by Kat on Aug-10th-03 at 5:21 PM
In response to Message #10.

..."Jose Correiro (Manuel Jose Correira, Correira de Mello, Correia) was locked up on Sunday, June 4th, the day of Bertha Manchester’s funeral.  On Monday, June 5, he appeared in the District court of Judge McDonough on a charge of homicide.  His case was continued until June 15th, according to the newspapers, but on June 13th headlines proclaimed the possibility of “DISCRIMINATION”.  By January 4, 1894, the Fall River Daily Globe showed concern by admitting that Correiro had yet to have his trial date set, after languishing seven full months, to the day, in jail."....

This is part of my extro-duction from the Manchester series of news articles, based on info gathered from Victorian Vistas, vol. 2, pg. 385, article dated June 4th, 1893, paper not known.  Mr. Silvia, I believe, offers to give news citations if contacted.  (Also, apparently Mr. Sivia is related to the *Silvia* who accompanied the men to the officials when Jose turned himself in.)