The Lizzie Borden Society archive

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1. "Morse's Memory"
Posted by adminlizzieborden on Jan-8th-02 at 9:26 PM

By kat on Saturday, 12/15/2001 - 01:59 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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At the Trial, Morse, crossed by Robinson, pg.147, says Abby gave the directions to wash the windows to Bridget while he was at breakfast with Abby and Andrew, as Bridget entered and left the roon a couple of times--somwhere about 7-7:30 a.m.
We know by Bridgets testimony that she swears she was given the order at 9 a.m., the last time she saw Abby.
Then, page 150, Morse, still being cross-examined by friendly Robinson is asked:
Q: "...tell us about what hour you arrived on your return (to the house)?"
A: "...I think about 20 minutes to 11."
Q:"You don't mean 11 do you?"
A:"12".
Q:"About 20 minutes of 12?"
A:"Yes sir."

--Well, if Morse DID hear that order to wash the windows, and we believe Bridget, then was he only pretending to leave at 8:45, and was let back in by maybe Lizzie while Bridget was outside throwing up for 10-15 minutes? Some windows were open so he could hear conversation, or he could have hidden in the parlour. This testimony that collides with Bridget's has always been a mystery.
The SECOND testimony about the time he returned, could be why he says he never noticed a lot of people hanging around the house After the murders were discovered, because he inadvertently let slip that he was there at 10:45 which puts him on the spot for Andrews murder...or it could be a "slip-up" of the memory while under pressure on the stand...odd these 2 occurrences of bad memory...

 
By raystephanson on Sunday, 12/16/2001 - 07:27 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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AR Brown says JV Morse colluded with Lizzie to shield the murderer and those who arranged for his visit (JVM and Uncle Hiram, etc.). Note how both say they NEVER talked the night before; why would Lizzie ignore Uncle John?

 
By kat on Sunday, 12/16/2001 - 09:31 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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According to Todd Lunday, the only time an 'outsider" could have entered the Borden home unmolested or undetected to kill Abby was this very narrow window of time that the screen door was unlocked whilst Bridget was outside throwing up (about 3-5 minutes after Lizzie got up...). But Lizzie was supposedly having breakfast IN THE KITCHEN (coffee & Cookie) during this short period of time, according to Bridget, though Lizzie neglected to tell her own defense this startling tid-bit.

According to me,if the person was known to the household, and the crime pre-planned, then the entrance to the house would Still be in this time period (because of the timing of Andrew's leaving vs. the murder of Abby), or else the previous night.

 
By tina on Monday, 12/17/2001 - 03:40 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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So wouldn't that be a slip up, or inconsistent. Or is it just a slip up if you're a suspect?
Tina

 
By raystephanson on Monday, 12/17/2001 - 09:06 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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In my opinion, WmS Borden entered through the unlocked front door, then locked ALL the locks. That is why Bridget had a problem in opening the door; she didn't expect to find the deadbolt locked, and "fumbled" with the lock. This would be about 9AM when everyone was in the kitchen saying goodbye to Uncle John (except Lizzie?). This was done to meet with Andrew later.

"Todd Lunday" is a pen name for ???, and a parody on the crime (I haven't read the book myself).

 
By kat on Monday, 12/17/2001 - 10:10 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Todd Lunday can now be downloaded for free at "Lizzie's Library"- it's about 55 pages
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com

Morse's relatives at Weybosset street would have to be lying also, by backing up his alibi. It's a good question, Tina, because then we'd have to consider a lot more people "in the know", which just isn't feasable--the more who know, or lie. the greater chance that someone would have "talked" by NOW. So yea, I guess you're right in that it was a slip-up of nervousness(?) and only seems important because he was a suspect (to conspiracy?). BUT HEY! What a BAD place in the trial to have your memory falter!
But the odd thing is, his memory falters in another aspect I can think of--and that's his testimony that he didn't enter the guest room after the killing of Abby to view her body, yet Doherty says he WAS in the room...So I'm beginning to not believe him, but his story rests on too many outside witnesses...he's a mystery...

 
By raystephanson on Tuesday, 12/18/2001 - 02:15 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Perhaps the confusion over testimony merely reflects the fact of different witnesses at different times? They didn't take notes, did they? Unaided human memory can diverge after time passes.

 
By stefani on Wednesday, 12/19/2001 - 12:42 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Another Morse slip up is when he testifies or states that the cellar door was open when he was in the back yard. It was not open. It made me think that maybe, just maybe, the door was SUPPOSED TO BE OPEN, but it wasn't. That was his proof that he was in the back yard eating pears instead of coming right in after his return that morning. He is asked several times about it and each time he asserts the door was open.

I have always wondered about this door and why he insists it was open when it was not. This may not be a memory thing. Or do you think JVM had hardening of the arteries? Maybe he was losing it?

 
By kat on Wednesday, 12/19/2001 - 01:32 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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In the account of Morse being physically IN the guestroom viewing Abby's body, there is NO perhaps about it. There is minute by minute evidence , on BOTH sides, Doherty's & Morses that proves Morse is either vitally mistaken or lying. Again, I would ask you to visit the web-site, go to "Chronologies", then "Comparative Testimonies:-Morse & Doherty, PLEASE.
It's just a few clicks away...
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com

 
By kat on Wednesday, 12/19/2001 - 01:42 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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So from the Prelim., we have caught Morse:
1)Says he heard order to wash windows to Bridget from Abby at 7:30, when it really happened at 9.
2) Noticed no one special around the outside of the house when he returned from Weybosset Street, after bodies were found.
3) Tells Holmes the cellar door was open when he returned, but doesn't directly tell police--he KNOWS that busy-body will pass on the info to the police, so HE doesn't have to.
4) On oath says he didn't enter Guest room upon his return to the house.
5)Accidently(?) makes a mistake at the trial and testifies he returned at 10:45 a.m.

--This is also leaving out the "see-a-man-about-some-oxen" story he told that made no sense...

 
By raystephanson on Wednesday, 12/19/2001 - 02:14 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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You just have to understand that witnesses, unless well-rehearsed ("horse-shedded"), will give varying statements.
I think Uncle John's statement about Bridget being told to wash windows as 7:30 does not rule out this order from being repeated at (AM.

 
By kat on Wednesday, 12/19/2001 - 10:16 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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I do agree with you on both parts..But.
Admittedly these are very curious mistakes in testimony.. almost as curious as Lizzie's "damning" inquest testimony.

 
By raystephanson on Thursday, 12/20/2001 - 02:33 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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There is an old parlor game (a famous illustration by Norman Rockwell) where people whisper a story to one person, they repeat it to another, around a circle. Then the originating person hears it after being retold! The story and scandal of gossip?

Do people hear what they want to hear, and what resonates with each particular person?