The Lizzie Borden Society archive

Forum URL:

1. "Lizzie a Wild woman?"
Posted by adminlizzieborden on Jan-8th-02 at 9:35 PM

By harry on Friday, 11/30/2001 - 02:17 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
At least according to the title of this article. It's contains the usual compliment of errors, the most glaring being the spelling of Borden as Bordon throughout.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/14925/76060

 
By augusta on Friday, 11/30/2001 - 10:08 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article wasn't bad - but the errors show either a lack of research or credibility on the author's part. "Bordon" is the worst, since it's spelled that way every time it's used (often). Lizzie was either "Lizzie" before the murders or "Lizbeth" after. She was never known as "Elizabeth". And I don't know where it was gotten that Nance O'Neil moved into Maplecroft. I had to laugh, though, to see that Lizzie died from complications from "gull" bladder surgery. Geez, doesn't anyone proofread anymore?

 
By kat on Saturday, 12/01/2001 - 12:36 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently Andrew slept with a hatchet! No wonder the weapon was readily available.

I was wondering if Emma's death so close to Lizzie's was a little TOO convenient and coincidental?
She was supposedly senile (Rebello, pg.341), and it might have been expedient for someone to get their inheritence...sound familiar?

 
By augusta on Saturday, 12/01/2001 - 12:57 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought Spiering's version of Emma's death was really good. What'd he say (it's been years since I read it) - that she heard a noise and went to see and fell down the stairs and broke her hip? I think he said she would sometimes refer to "them" coming and getting her.

Yes, that 9 days between her and Lizzie's death is very weird. But who would be in line for Emma's inheritance? I always thought that Emma was pretty sick but hanging on, and when she was told about Lizzie's death she let go - she no longer had to be there for Baby Lizzie anymore like she promised Mama.

 
By kat on Saturday, 12/01/2001 - 05:31 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's in Rebello, as to who inherits. Also she left a Lot more $ than Lizzie did, 100,000 more.
If she was the last one left to know THE TRUTH -THAT may have been motive enough. The sisters were "safe" as long as both lived...

 
By augusta on Sunday, 12/02/2001 - 01:56 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Emma left a lot more than Lizzie. I think that this shows us that Emma's motive, if any, was not for money. For control, perhaps, and her hatred of Abby. But she never really "lived" like Lizzie did afterwards, did she. Lizzie did this and did that, went here and went there, bought this and bought that, (okay, took this and took that). She lived it seemed; Emma existed. Kat, I'm sorry I don't understand your last paragraph. Can you elaborate?

 
By kat on Sunday, 12/02/2001 - 05:21 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If 2 people know THE TRUTH of the murders then they are safe from harm, either from each other, or from an outside party. It would be just TOO CO-INCIDENTAL for 2 parties to a crime to die within days of each other--authorities might assume foul play. If only one person is left alive who knows the truth, it's easier to bump them off and make it seem an accident. There's "safety in numbers" among thieves. Lizzie's death was assumed natural, but what do we know of Emma's?
My bet for murderer of Emma may not be related to the original crimes--that was just one theory.
Following Rebello through wills and Emma in Newmarket (pgs.313-349 section), we find Annie C. Connor profiting, not only from Emma but from her own sister Mary, who died at the ripe old age of 60, in 1921. Annie got the house, with a little maneuvering, that was possibly partially owned by Emma, and also by Mary. Then Annie sold that house 5 months after Emma died, and moved away.

"Emma Borden died in Newmarket, New Hampshire, June 10, 1927. While in Newmarket, she resided in a two-family home owned by Miss Mary K. Connor. Miss Connor's sister, Annie. C. Connor, also resided in the home. When Emma died, Miss Annie C. Connor told a reporter from the Foster's Daily Democrat:
'...that she (Emma) came to board with her about 4 years ago and her health had been very poor even before that time. About 3 weeks ago she became worse and her physician ordered her to bed, and from that time she had failed continuously.' (June 10, 1927:1)"

By the time Emma came to board Mary was already dead.
Annie inherited "additional land holdings...'
Annie could have gotten tired of caring for a sick, bed-ridden, senile lady, and taken matters into her own hands.
-Just boiling up a little mystery to pass the time...

 
By augusta on Sunday, 12/02/2001 - 10:50 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That interview is interesting - no mention of Emma falling and breaking her hip like Spiering said. I wonder where he got that from? 'Poor health' - what did she have, I wonder. I loved your story! If Annie was Mary's sister, and Mary was 60 Annie was probably not that old then. And she moved away after Emma died? Offhand I'd say loneliness made her move, or maybe the press descended on her once the word got out. But I like your version better. One thing's for sure: that dying 9 days apart is creepy.

 
By kat on Monday, 12/03/2001 - 03:18 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your appreciation of my new bedtime story.
I think Emma had "nephritus", whatever THAT is.

 
By kashesan on Monday, 12/03/2001 - 10:02 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nephritis: Acute inflammation of the kidneys (not inflammation of the nephews as I thought) Didn't Lizzie die from kidney failuer too?

 
By dave on Monday, 12/03/2001 - 05:20 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was informed by former Lizzie actress Sharon Sexton that Emma's mind began to go near the end of her life. Rebello writes that she had gone senile. Bridget was blind for the last years of her life. Scary stuff.

Nephritis? Ya, I had it once. It developed out of my nasty syphilitic infection. I was a G.I. in France. My buddies and I went into one of those Pigalle whorehouses. We were on leave from the front. Her name was Yvette. She threw me around like a rag doll and made me into a man. They dont call the French great lovers for nothin'.

Storytime's over, kiddoes. Yr Uncle Davie is off. I'm hungry and I cant cook, so I'm off to get me some o' those junior whoppers at Burger King. God, if i dont improve my eating habits, cancer's just around the corner.

 
By kat on Monday, 12/03/2001 - 10:42 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet poisoning could induce kidney failure.
Seems EMMA sold her 1/2 of the A.J. Borden building in 1923 (Rebello,558), and also moved to Newmarket in 1923 (312).

Turns out Lizzie kept her 1/2 until her death. I had thought it was the other way around-that Emma kept her share, and Lizzie sold hers, not caring about the monument her father built that held his name..
Another odd thing about wills:
Pg.312 there is an agreement made between Emma and Lizzie that they would provide by will each to the other their share of the French street house, unless otherwise disposed of, by prior agreement. Emma did this in her will(pt.6) (pg.344), but Lizzie did not seem to, even in her pt.29 (pg339). Since Lizzie died first, and might not have included Emma in the French street property inheritance in her will, I wonder how the dispensation of that property proceeded. Lizzie expressly leaves out Emma, and seems to also disregard their previous legal agreement. Sounds like acrimony to me...Maybe she was mad at the breakup of ownership of the A.J.Borden building, as she signed this will in 1926, 3 years after Emma sold her 1/2. If Lizzie was so "hot" to keep that bldg. in the family, you'd think she'd leave her share to Emma, even with the 9 year age difference.

 
By kat on Tuesday, 12/04/2001 - 10:49 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would Lizzie be mad at Emma?

 
By dnslilly on Sunday, 12/09/2001 - 09:53 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
~Why would Lizzie be mad at Emma? <<<

Maybe it was less "mad at" than "resentful of."
Emma was content to be subservient and deny herself many things. Lizzie wanted to get her ya yas out and enjoy life. She wanted running water, hot water on tap, electric light, and Gee, maybe even a telephone. In a metaphor (or maybe literally), Emma probably felt guilty for even wanting an orgasm, while perhaps Lizzie would give herself one.

Dave L

 
By dave on Sunday, 12/09/2001 - 10:37 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL

Hey Dave, whats funny is that Lizzie was described by Nance in her interview four days after Lizzie's death as "a little old-fashioned gentlewoman", but underneath maybe there was a raging wild woman LOL. We know Lizzie enjoyed erotic literature--well, romance novels. In those Victorian books, the good-night kiss at the door is the height of the erotic experience for both boy and girl .