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Lizzie Andrew Borden

 

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Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden
Topic Name: Abby's dress

1. "Abby's dress"
Posted by Carol on Apr-30th-02 at 7:05 PM

Was a description ever given in detail about what Abby wore, the dress she was murdered in?  There is that black and white photo but it is hard to draw a description from looking at it.  I know it was described as a "house" dress but what about color, material type, etc.

Where are the clothes the victims wore when they were murdered now?  Were they lost over the years, reburied or what?  Anyone know?


2. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by nanajan on Apr-30th-02 at 8:48 PM
In response to Message #1.

Victoria Lincoln, p.181
"Abby's old white calico in which she died"


3. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by bobcook848 on Apr-30th-02 at 10:21 PM
In response to Message #2.

According to Robert Sullivan, "Goodbye Lizzie Borden", 1974, Abby was wearing a cotton "house dress"...I am still searching for the exact page.

Please bear with me...will post page number when found.

BC


4. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by rays on May-1st-02 at 11:04 AM
In response to Message #3.

The famous picture of the body should answer that question.


5. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Bob Gutowski on May-1st-02 at 3:20 PM
In response to Message #4.

The query was posed because "the famous picture" does NOT answer the question.  Can YOU tell exactly what fabric Abby was murdered in by looking at the photo?


6. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Kat on May-1st-02 at 5:26 PM
In response to Message #5.

Yea, I was thinkin' :"That's an overexposed black-n-white photo;  What could that possibly tell us?  Plus Abby has an apron on.  We can't even see the wound in her upper shoulder..."

I don't think any of the characters can describe what Abby is wearing under oath.


7. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by harry on May-1st-02 at 6:09 PM
In response to Message #2.

In addition to NanaJan's post, this also from Lincoln (pg 109):

"Bridget hurried up the front stairs, with Mrs. Churchill close behind her. At the turn of the staircase they could see under the guest-room bed to its further side. The old white calico showed up, even in the darkened room. Bridget ran in and threw open the shutters."

I think the newspapers probably would be as good a source as any for information of this type. Assuming you trust them.


8. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Susan on May-1st-02 at 10:45 PM
In response to Message #7.

Didn't or doesn't calico always have some sort of small print on it?  Very difficult to see anything like that in the photos.


9. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Bob Gutowski on May-2nd-02 at 5:20 PM
In response to Message #8.

As much as I love her book and its attempt to explain EVERYTHING, we can't use Lincoln as a primary source.  She says everthing she writes is based on testimony, but, alas, her novelist's instincts lead us into areas such as when she proclaims that Lizzie, "in fact, could never bear rebuff of any kind."  Proof?

I use to just take Lincoln on faith, and now I take a great deal of her nevertheless very entertaining and haunting book with a grain of salt.  When she writes that above passage about the old calico showing up, "even in the dark," it's her way of making sure we don't for a moment think Bridget could have known Abby was already dead up there (she didn't want to go up, remember?).  Mind you, I'm not proposing here that Bridget was either a murderess or an accessory; I'm simply noting how Lincoln is giving to state theory as fact, if it supports her case.  And, for goodness' sake, was that calico luminous, after all?     


10. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Carol on May-2nd-02 at 5:53 PM
In response to Message #9.

Yes, I too would like to know why Lincoln specified it was a "calico" dress Abby was wearing. It certainly looks white, but as Susan pointed out, calico is known generally in America to be a white cotton cloth printed with a figure of some kind.  In my dictionary it says that the British use the word to describe a plain white fabric but unless Lincoln had some reason to use British terminology, she must have either used the word white calico because she had access to some information we do not or else she was as Bob suggested using literary license.  From the photo it looks like what she was wearing could have been a solid white muslin, which is more normally solid white or off white, but then also, the photo isn't exactly good so it could be it was a calico with a tiny tiny print.


11. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Stefani on May-2nd-02 at 6:14 PM
In response to Message #10.

Here is the list of the bloody stuff that was buried, dug up and saved per the witness statments:

ALBERT E. CHASE

Fall River, Mass. August 5, 1892. The following articles and wearing apparel were this afternoon taken from a washtub in the cellar wash room of the Borden House by orders of the City Marshal and Medical Examiner, and were buried under my direction in-the yard back of the barn.
1 sofa pillow and tidy, one large piece of Brussels carpet, one roll of cotton batting, one sheet and several pieces of cotton cloth, three towels, one napkin, one chemise, one dress., one pair drawers, one skirt, two aprons, one hair braid and several pieces of hair from Mrs. Borden's head from five to eight inches long, one neck tie, one truss, one piece of black silk braid or watch guard.
I also found mixed in with the hair of Mrs. Borden a piece of bone, which from it nature I took to be a piece of Mrs. Borden's skull, it was cut so smooth, that I thought it might be of use in determining what kind of instrument was used, as the bone and hair both had the appearance of being cut with a very sharp instrumetn; I gave this piece of bone to Dr. Dolan.
About the middle of the next week Dr. Dolan ordered all the articles dug up. After taking out pieces of clothing and of the carpet, they were ordered buried again. This time they were all put in a box.



It does not say what kind of dress, however.


12. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by harry on May-2nd-02 at 6:18 PM
In response to Message #9.

Now, now, Bob, you don't think Ms. Lincoln would embellish any do you? 

She doesn't cite any source for her information. None of the primary documents mention it. I still say the newspapers would be a better source.

Do we really know how dark the room was?  There was, if I remember correctly, some uncertainty as to whether all the window shutters were open or closed. A stark white cloth perhaps would stand out if nothing else than as contrast. The amount of contrast would depend upon the amount of light and whether any stream of light was on the dress.


13. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Kat on May-2nd-02 at 7:19 PM
In response to Message #12.

If I were 200 pounds I wouldn't be caught dead in a white dress, let alone doing morning chores, Apron or NO APRON!


14. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Carol on May-2nd-02 at 8:03 PM
In response to Message #13.

Thanks for all the interesting posts plus the witness statements info on the burial of the clothes, (perhaps someone should remove the printing shop and dig up the back yard again...but he didn't say where they reburied the clothes did he.)

I just read over (quickly) the autopsy report and have something more to add on Abby's dress.  Perhaps we were to harsh with Lincoln.

Second District Court
Fall River  August 25, 1892
Commonwealth vs. Lizzie A. Borden

Dr. William A. Dolan is questioned by Mr. Knowlton regarding the first time he viewed Abby's body on the murder day:

page 90:
Q:  How was she dressed?
A:  She was dressed, as you would expect to find a housewife at that hour in the morning, in some calico dress.
Q:  Anything on her head?
A:  No Sir.  There was a silk handerchief; whether it had been around her head or not, I cannot say.  It was not around the head when I saw it, but near the head.
(.......more questions then Dolan says that it looked like a pocket handkerchief.)

Then on page 140: Dr. Dolan is asked about the second time he viewed Abby's body the murder day:
Q: What dress did she have on?
A:  A calico dress.
Q:  What color?
A:  A light one.
Q:  Any figure?
A:  I think not.
Q:  Light blue, pink, or brown?
A:  I do not know; it was a light color.
Q:  Give me some hint what the color of that gown was.
A:  I do not see anything here that looks just like it.
Q:  It did not have a red tone, or blue, or pink tone?
A:  No, sir.
Q:  You cannot tell whether it had any figure or not ?
A:  No Sir.
Q:  Was it light all through; was the waist the same as the skirt, the same material?
A:  I think it was, sir.

I think this is a very strange examination about the dress.  If it was so white why did the man go into all those color speculations?


15. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by David on May-2nd-02 at 10:42 PM
In response to Message #12.



(Message last edited Oct-6th-02  10:02 PM.)


16. "Re: Abby's dress"
Posted by Susan on May-3rd-02 at 3:05 AM
In response to Message #11.

Wow, it seems that there were quite alot of things that got bloody that day!  The sheet I can see why, but, what of the napkin and the 3 towels?  The doctors wiping their hands on them?  Hmmm?  And what of Andrew's suit and the Prince Albert, why were they not buried along with Abby's clothes?  In the past, when I had read of the clothing being buried, I always assumed that it was both Abby's and Andrew's.  So many little mysteries in this great big one, no wonder we love this case! 


17. "Re: Abby's dress and those other things"
Posted by Bob Gutowski on May-3rd-02 at 12:06 PM
In response to Message #16.

Ha!  David, very interesting! 

Now, as to Lincoln's inventiveness, I believe she has Abby wearing that old old handkerchief of Andrew's as a head covering.  Was there any question asked that established this?  When I saw it (the handkerchief) at the FRHS I didn't think it was large enough to serve such a purpose.


18. "Re: Abby's dress and those other things"
Posted by Kat on May-4th-02 at 1:44 AM
In response to Message #17.

In Lizzie's inqest testimony, pg. 58, she is asked:
Q: When she dusted (Abby) did she wear something over her head?
A: Sometimes when she swept, but not when dusting.

I checked Bridget's Prelim. testimony but she was not asked.

Something odd caught my eye...that you made me *see*:
In Bridget's testimony at the Prelim, she mentions the little ironing board and Lizzie's handkerchiefs
We don't know that this isn't one of THOSE, do we?
I think Dr. Dolan said it seemed like a man's hankerchief, but you say it didn't seem large enough to cover a woman's head...

So we have Lizzie ironing handkerchiefs this day of all days.
Abby dusting, probably NOT wearing a handkerchief over her hair...
And a handkerchief found near the body...

(Message last edited May-4th-02  1:46 AM.)


19. "Re: Abby's dress and those other things"
Posted by Carol on May-4th-02 at 12:23 PM
In response to Message #17.

Page 90 Autopsy testimony
Mr. Knowlton is questioning Dr. Dolan
Second District Court Fall River August 25, 1892

....after the above I already quoted about the dress

Q.  Anything on her head?
A:  No Sir.  There was a silk handkerchief; whether it had been around her head or not, I cannot say. It was not around the head when I saw it, but near the head.
Q:  What kind of handkerchief?
A:  I should think a silk one.
Q:  Not on her head then?
A:  No Sir.
Q:  A pocket handkerchief, or a dusting handkerchief?
A:  A pocket handkerchief I should say, SAME AS THEY TIE AROUND THEIR HEADS SOMETIME WHEN DUSTING. (my caps for emphasis regarding where Lincoln could have gotten her information.)
Q:  How near the head was that?
A:  Very near it, practically touching the head, but not on it.
Q:  Was it knotted up, or loose?
A:  No Sir, I think it was not knotted.
Q:  Was it cut?
A:  I could not say whether it was cut or not; it was so old.  It was torn very freely.  I should not think it was cut; I should not say that it was.
Q:  Was there any blood on it?
A:  Yes Sir, some blood on it fromthe surrounding blood.
Q:  Blood on the handkerchief?
A:  Yes Sir.


20. "Re: Abby's dress and those other things"
Posted by Susan on May-4th-02 at 2:04 PM
In response to Message #18.

Lincoln's book also mentions that Lizzie carried laundry upstairs to her room.

pg.180

  But now, abruptly, as if mention of the cellar led into it, she added that she also, RIGHT THEN, carried some clean clothes upstairs.

pg.182

  She runs upstairss, carrying the clean clothes.  As Abby straightens up from smoothing the bedspread, Lizzie flings the clothes behind her in one gesture connected with the first blow.

Maybe it is one of Lizzie's handkerchiefs that had fallen out of the laundry bundle that she had thrown.  Seeing that it had blood on it, she couldn't very well pick it up and iron it with the rest.  I like your way of thinking, Kat! 


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