The Lizzie Borden Society archive

Lizzie Andrew Borden

 

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http://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/index.php
Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden
Topic Name: Andrew's Paper

1. "Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Kat on Jan-5th-02 at 3:29 AM

Did Andrew have his paper delivered or did he pick it up at the Post Office?
In the Inquest, pg.66, Lizzie says when she got up Thursday morning Andrew was reading the paper.  He gets up at 6:30 or so, she gets up at 9 a.m.  HER job is to unlock the front door, even when Emma is home.  So why is this her job?  She's not opening the door to get the mail, or fetch in the paper-why does it matter if she unlocks the front door or not?  But a BIG DEAL is made of the fact that on Thursday, Lizzie did NOT do this--on the one important day.
Does this mean anything?
If Andrew collects the paper (to save from paying delivery?) from the P.O., then the one he reads in the morning could be the day before's.
That 5" square "package" that Mrs. Kelly saw in his hand may be the "Daily" he fetched from downtown, folded down to Prince Albert coat-pocket size, and he withdrew it when he had to fumble for his key at the Front Door That Lizzie Hadn't Unlocked

Anyway, Why didn't Lizzie unbolt that door?  Is this part of A PLAN?.


2. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Harry on Jan-5th-02 at 7:47 AM
In response to Message #1.

The paper question is a very good one Kat. Lizzie claimed she addressed the mailing labels for one of the papers so I would assume the paper was mailed.  I can't believe if the paper was delivered it would have required a mailing label, although they were a lot more formal back then.

Today we get our daily paper without a label thrown somewhere in the proximity of where I live.

Apparently part of John Cunningham's job was to collect for the paper which he claimed he was doing on Second street the morning of the murder. He doesn't say whether he collected just for the commercial accounts or for individual accounts as well. 


3. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Kat on Jan-5th-02 at 10:02 PM
In response to Message #2.

So you get a paper? 
If you folded it in 1/2 , then in 1/2, then in half again, would it be approx. 5" square?  (I don't get one.)

It would save Andrew paying a "paper boy" if he collected his own paper. (save tips, and Holiday gratuities)...  Lizzie apparently HAD a paper-boy up on the Hill.


4. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Kat on Jan-8th-02 at 2:16 AM
In response to Message #3.

Well, let's see if an amatuer can give a successful LINK to a "Prince Albert Coat":
(there will be a "box" in front of the coat;  just click the corner for it to go away--and there should be THE COAT-I HOPE.)

http://www.kubemoden.de/shop/p808.html

wish us luck!  It's pretty Cool!


5. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by augusta on Jan-9th-02 at 6:54 PM
In response to Message #1.

We talked about Lizzie addressing 'paper wrappers' before (I didn't know what they were).  Someone said it saved the Borden household money to address their own. 

I guess you could fold a paper into almost any size you wanted.  I would assume that the Borden's paper was not in ten sections like some of the larger city ones are today.  Especially if it came out a couple times a day.

I wouldn't think that Andrew's parcel was a folded newspaper, though.   It was said that that parcel was wrapped in white paper. 

What a lovely picture of the Prince Albert coat!  Thanks much for posting that, Kat.  I wonder if today's Prince Albert differs from the one Andrew had in 1892.  This looked pretty fancy.  But if it was Andrew's only one and he used it for business doings, maybe the old geezer did spring for it.


6. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Kat on Jan-9th-02 at 7:13 PM
In response to Message #5.

Mrs. Kelly was in a hurry & not noticing much at all.  Besides the paper itself IS white paper...Harry knows an answer, if he'll come and tell...he experimented.
The coat looked to Stef and myself as a wedding coat or a funeral coat.......Also, does the sketch of it, below the photo, seem to show the deep interior pockets?  Or are those interior "darts"?
One more question:
Since that coat is SO LONG, how could a 5'4" girl wear it to kill, if it was fitted to her father's 5'11" frame?  It would already come to his mid-shin--think how much longer it would be on Lizzie--there's a difference of 7" here in height....


7. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Harry on Jan-9th-02 at 9:43 PM
In response to Message #6.

(Message last edited Jan-9th-02  9:45 PM.)

(Message last edited Jan-9th-02  9:44 PM.)

At Kat's instigation I conducted an experiment on my local paper.  The paper measures 12-1/2" in width and 22" in length.  I folded it 3 times, each time in half.

The finished item measured approx. 5-1/2" by 6". The height was hard to measure but I got 3/8" at the crease and over an inch at the other end if I held it naturally.  It depends on how much pressure you apply when holding it and whether you are holding the creased edge or the open edge. It will "V" shape when you hold it at the crease.

The 5-1/2 x 6 size nearly fits the 5" package Mrs. Kelly claimed she saw. Obviously she didn't measure it so it was just an estimation. True, the paper would not be all white but perhaps the part of the paper she seen had a sufficient amount of white on it.

How big are the pockets on a Prince Albert coat?  Big enough to hold a folded newspaper?  Perhaps he took it out of his pocket when he took his keys out.

This is all just speculation, but it is a possibility.


8. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Stefani on Jan-10th-02 at 1:11 AM
In response to Message #7.

Was the prince albert coat the one that was under the pillow part ways under Andrew's  head? If so, why would he fold that big coat, obviously worth a lot of money and put it under his pillow? Seems like the kind of coat you would HAVE to hang up or it would not look good. Am I correct about this coat?


9. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by medusa on Jan-10th-02 at 10:07 AM
In response to Message #8.

I'm under the impression that the killer may have put the coat on to cover his/her clothes to cover up the blood, then lifted up Andrew's head (eee-yuk!) and placed the blood-stained coat under his head.  Speculation on my part, however.


10. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by Kat on Jan-10th-02 at 6:51 PM
In response to Message #9.

I think the order of objects under Andrew's head was afghan (folded on arm of sofa) then folded coat, then pillow, then antimaccasser on pillow.  And yea, it does look "stuffed" down in there, but the body sank or shifted (according to Bowen) so we don't really know if Andrew's head actually Touched the coat.

However, that coat is SOOO long, I think a girl would find it unwieldy and trip over it.  So maybe if the coat was used as a shield, it wasn't a girl wearing it.
Other than that, why not recreate the first costume worn when killing, as it seems to have been so successful so as not to be found?


11. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by joe on Jan-11th-02 at 9:35 AM
In response to Message #10.

OR Bridget wore the Prince Albert as you suggested, Kat, in the "Bridget Did It" forum. 

Lincoln makes a big point of suggesting that the dress Lizzie wore when she slaughtered mom & pop was wadded up in some towels on the floor of (I think) Emma's closet.  Then, Lincoln makes another supposition that the missing dress may have been well-hidden inside of another dress. ---sorry, I don't have the book and can't cite source pages--- The cops didn't find either dress (or the hatchet wadded up), according to Lincoln, inside of the dress or on Emma's closet floor.  Maybe it was that small closet at the top of the steps. 

Whatever, according to Lincoln, the cops were too stupid in their malehood to think of looking in those 2 places for the missing dress.

Maybe the P.A. coat has nothing to do with anything except to keep the old man warmer when it was 80 degrees outside.


12. "Re: Andrew's Paper"
Posted by augusta on Jan-12th-02 at 7:55 PM
In response to Message #1.

Wasn't it said that Andrew hung up his Prince Albert coat to put on the other?  Yes, Stefani, the good Prince Albert coat is the one wadded up under his head.  If there was an afghan + a pillow already there, why would he take his coat and wad it up like that?  I don't think he would.  I think the coat is a clew.  Maybe if the coat were found, someone could examine it or do testing on it to figure out what role it played. 
If Lizzie put it under his head, I'd think she'd get blood on her hands and not have time to wash it off.
Great experiment, Harry!  I don't see how the newspaper could be described as a 'white' parcel, though. 


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