The Lizzie Borden Society archive

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1. "Epilepsy or ?"
Posted by Kat on Mar-19th-02 at 10:42 PM

This morning on the news, appeared 2 young girls who were in D.C., today, to talk to Congress about their experiences with epilepsy.  They each had had a form of it since they were VERY YOUNG, one at 2 years old.  One of the girls mentioned that she usually threw-up as a seizure approached. 
It seemed that if Lizzie Borden really had this illness, it would have been common knowledge, especially having lived in the same town all her life.  Also, how could her family accomodate her *illness* and still allow her to travel to Europe for 19 weeks, without the forewarning of the other sojourners?  (That's also 4 menstrual cycles, during the time of year she might have been most affected, the late summer months.) 

The book called SYMPTOMS, The Complete Home Medical Encyclopedia, Thomas Y. Crowell Company, N.Y., 1976, says of Temporal Lobe Seizures ,pg.210-11:

"This variety is nowhere near as dramatic as grand mal.  The patient usually does not fall, but he does not understand what is being said to him and is out of contact with his environment.  He may stagger, wander, make unintelligible sounds, chew ,or make purposeless movements.  The patient may be stupefied, torpid, or he may be uncontrollably emotional and violent.  The attack may last from 2 minutes to a 1/2  hour--Occasionally for a whole day or so...
Emergency aid consists of putting the patient on his back or side, head lowered to prevent him from sucking vomitus into his lungs.  All tight clothing should be loosened..."

Then, recently, I was speaking to my friend about some symptoms she was having at the age of 50.  We looked up
Hypoglycemia and it seemed as if the symptoms were similar--and as we always hear (in testimony) of Lizzie's not eating or foregoing meals with the family or "not wanting any breakfast", I am including the SYMPTOMS of that here as well, to compare (pg.484-5):

"Hypoglycemia can present many diverse symptoms, depending upon the rapidity and the extensiveness of the disorder,  Episodes of severe weakness, dizziness, palpitation, shaking, sweating, blurred vision, and headache are common.  Blackout spells, an inability to concentrate, bizarre behavior, and various psychiatric symptoms are frequent. In severe hypoglycemia, convulsions and coma are not unusual ..."
...(There are various causes: tumor on the pancreas, adrenal insufficiency, sensitivity to fructose and fruit [pears?], and galactose intolerance (milk products)-also the wrong combinations of carbohydrates with proteins which causes the imbalance, which would equate with a poorly-managed diet.  Adult onset could also be instigated by an early mild diabetes, and is usually familial (remember the "sanity survey"?)...
..."Most often, however, there is no known underlying cause, and reactive hypoglycemia appears without any apparent reason.  This is especially true in young women who tend to be tense or who are under emotional strain ."

--This then, IF THERE WAS ANYthing medically *wrong* with Lizzie, might be an easier illness to allow for and control, especially when traveling, or out in the *working world* where Lizzie spent time with her church activities.  Proper diet, rest, and avoiding food or emotional stressors would certainly alleviate much of the symptoms. 

Wow, Kat.  Once again, interesting, excellent "sleuthing"!

A very interesting post Kat.  She definitely appeared under some stress as witness her visit to Alice Russell the previous night. With Emma gone she had no one else to turn to. Then Lord only knows what she may have over heard in the Andrew-Morse conversation in the sitting room when she came home.

The failure to obtain the prussic acid would have been futher aggrevation and may have begun a series of frustrations that triggered an outburst. Who knows maybe even a cross word or two before hand, unheard by Bridget, between Abby and herself.

(Message last edited Mar-19th-02  11:46 PM.)

Thanks folks.
I started thinking of eating disorders, though Lizzie doesn't quite LOOK the part, her strange eating habits made me wonder about anorexia, or anemia.  This led me to thinking about hypoglycemia. (Just think:  Lizzie may have been physically reacting  negatively to Bridget's MENU'S!)
I've never favored the Lincoln theory of epilepsy, as it seemed a cop-out--OK she did it, but didn't KNOW she did it.  I thought if Lizzie had that illness then where does the planning enter the equation?  And the hiding of evidence, after.  This disorder of epilepsy doesn't allow for those things...plus we never hear of her vomiting her whole life.
BUT:
I also subscribe to a tiny belief in the "where there's smoke, there's fire" catagory of thinking....but look for alternate explanations, which may or may not be as valid as the original *legend*.  (Lizzie was "odd", "Peculiar.")
This forum is unique and wonderful, that I can express my surmises to people who know and UNDerstanD, and therefore lead me on to bigger, better things.  Thank you guys, REALLY.
BUT:  unless we time-travel (who's going?) we'll STILL not know for sure, but then neither does Lincoln...

(Message last edited Mar-20th-02  4:21 AM.)

Very interesting!  As a long-time insulin dependent diabetic, I have had my share of hypoglycemic reactions, ranging from foggy to downright furious, and this is an intriguing idea.   

Wicked insight and research Kat...Lizzie might have suffered from a number of ailments that were, because of the lack of knowledge and research available at the time, unkown to medical men of the era. As one learns from historical data and medical research if a patient exhibited "spells of odd and peculiar" behavior that could not be explained through (19th century) "modern medicine" they were thought to be mentally impaired and many were sent off to places like Taunton State.  The exception would be those who committed crimes against society who would be locked-down at Bridgewater or similar.

One can not help but wonder if Lizzie didn't in fact suffer from some sort or variety of what we now call...A.D.D.  I teach part-time for in a public school system at both the middle and high school levels and let me confirm that I have experienced the outward characteristics of young adults who appear as Lizzie has been described.  More food for thought, yet another theory to advance, eh Fellow Researchers??  BC

As Harry mentioned Lizzie's visit to Alice Wed. night:
"I feel as if something were hanging over me..."--Lizzie.
And she told Alice she *spaced out* the last time she was with her girlfriends.  Thanks Harry for reminding us of that Alice visit.

Now as to A.D.D.--what medical theories are there currently, do you know?
This sounds odd, but I saw an infomercial 2 nights ago that was promoting ENZYMES, and claimed these could help in A D D.

I also recently saw on T.V., Dateline, or something, that A D D could be caused by sleep deficiency or sleep deprivation.  This made sense to me, as they showed the teens actually sleeping under laboratory conditions.  R.I. believed the studies enough to change their school start times for middle and high school students.
I think Lizzie got plenty of sleep, at least that we know of, unless she was an insomniac. ( Early bedtimes, and late risings, sound like a lot of rest to me...)

There are I am quite sure many ailments that could have effected Lizzie's behavior during her lifetime.  Today with high-tech diagnosis she could be analysised and digitized and finally a medication proscribed (a little early morning rhyme to go with our thyme, er time).  Without professional input of her time, namely the good ole family doc, Dr. Bowen, or any of his contemporaries, most of whom A.J. would have disapproved of, Dr. Kelly & Dr. Chagnon, we can not at present day, due to lack of information regarding her true behavior, make any more than a bedside speculation as to what medical ailment she actually suffered, if any at all.

Remember she was a hugh fan of the theatre and greatly admired actors with special attention to Nance O'Neil.  For all we know Lizzie may have been one of THE greatest actors of her generation and time.  We have to bear in mind that the human race has not changed with respect to its ability to act and react.  Yet another theory to advance.  BC

A very good message on this topic. Note that this did not reoccur in the future. While on remand she ate so much that her dresses had to be let out! One of the effects of family life on the health of a child? Look into this regarding child allergies, etc.

But this never occurred again, as far as we know. Maybe the tensions of family life (Andy and Abby) caused this, and this problem ended with their deaths. And what about Emma's 'thin as a rail' body? Didn't she get enought to eat, or what?

(Message last edited Mar-21st-02  1:31 PM.)

What is even stranger is that I have yet to find any author other than Lincoln make any reference to "temporal epilepsy".  I am not convined that Lizzie even had such an ailment.  I may be wrong but I don't recall any testimony at any of the hearings/trials to suggest that she did have them.  I have returned the copy of Lincoln's book back to the public library so I an handicapped to do any further research.  (however I just won a copy on Ebay...so in a week or so)

As far as poor Emma is concerned she may have suffered from what we now call anorexia.  Or maybe she was simply that one-in-a-trillon who can survive on "bread alone".  Again because of the absence of dialogue we must use our intuitions and "sixth senses" to derive a plausible theory. 

Wouldn't it be a gift from heaven if someone living in an old, 19th century, home in Fall River were to clean out an attic or cellar and tumble onto some written notes or letters from the Borden girls that revealed all and told all???  Yeah, right, like that's going to happen...but it's a nice thought though...BC

My past reference to "where there's smoke, there may be fire..." had me looking up the Sanity Survey info I alluded to, in the Knowlton Papers, FRHS, 1994.  I thought V. Lincoln talked to folks, read some letters, heard some gossip, and came up with her epilepsy theory.  Here are the citations from the Knowlton Papers, by MOULTON BATCHELDER, DIST. POLICE pg.102-6:

November 24, 1892

H. A. Knowlton
District Atty.
New Bedford, Mass.

Sir,
I have interviewed the following named persons in reference to the relatives of Lizzie Borden who said as follows:

Capt. James C. Stafford North St. New Bedford.
I use to know quite well the mother of Lizzie Borden, her name was Sarah Morse.  She had a sister and brothers. John now in Fall River, another brother who is a Blacksmith and is now out West.  Mrs. Morse the mother of Lizzie Borden was a very peculiar woman.  She had a Very bad temper .  She was very strong in her likes and dislikes.  I never knew or heard of any of the Morses or Bordens was ever Insane or anything like it.  I use to live in Fall River and always knew the Bordens and the Morses.  Mrs. Gray who lives on this St. may tell you something aboute them, also a Mrs. Almy who lives on Franklin St, Fall River.

Mrs. -Holland   Daughter of Mrs. Gray Resides on North St. New Bedford.  Same house with Mrs. Gray.  I never heard my mother say that Lizzie her mother or any of the Morses is or ever was Insane or anything like it.  I always have heard that they were somewhat peculiar and odd.  I have heard my mother talk considerable about Bordens and the Morses but never heard her say that any of them were Insane.

Abraham G. Hart   Cashier Savings bank Fall River.  I have live here most all my life.  I never knew much aboute Lizzie Borden or her mother.  I never knew much about the brothers of Lizzie Bordens mother.  Always known of them.  I never heard that any of the Morses or Bordens was ever Insane.

S. H. Miller   93 Second St. Fall River opp. the Borden House.  I have lived in Fall River 64 years.  Borden use to work for me.  I know the Bordons (sic) and all of the Morses,  the father of Lizzies mother was Anthony Morse.  I use to know his two brothers.  Know the brothers of Mrs. Morse, Lizzies mother.  One is now supposed to be out West.  I never knew or never heard that any of the Morses is or was Insane.  Know they were somewhat peculiar.  Anthony Morse had two brothers George and Gardiner Morse.  I am not a witness at the trial.  I did not intend to be.  I saw Mr. Borden a little while before the murder.  Bridget, the Servant girl came running into my house and said both was dead just then a man was passing.  I called him and told Bridget to tell him what she told me.  She did and that man was a witness.  I did not want anything to do with it and I did not go near the house.

Rescom Case   199 Second St. Fall River.  I have lived in Fall River 57 years and I know all the Bordens and the Morses well.  A sister of Mrs. Morse (Lizzies mother, married his cousin, a man named Morse, they now live here in Fall River.  I use to know Anthony, father of Lizzies mother.  He has a brother now living in Warren Mass. the woman that was murdered use to visit my house often, but she use to keep her affairs to herself pretty well, but I assure you I have my opinion of Lizzie Borden and I hope they will get more evidence.  My wife dont know anymore than I do aboute the Bordens or Morses.  We never heard that any one of them is or ever was Insane but I think some of them are worse than Insane.

Nov.26.
John S. Brayton Fall River.  I have lived here great meny years.  I know the Morses Mother of Lizzie Borden was Sarah, her father was Anthony Morse.  I think her sister is dead.  Anthony Morse was a farmer, after he owned a milk route.  I never heard of any one of them as being Insane or having any streak of Insanity.

D. S. Brigam Ex. City Marshal of Fall River.  I use to know the Morses never heard of any of them as being Insane, but this girl Lizzie Borden is known by a number of people here to be a woman of a bad disposition if they tell what they know.

Geo A. Patty (sic-Petty), Fall River  I did not know much aboute the history of the Morses but never heard that any of them is or was ever Insane but Lizzie is known to be ugly.

Mrs Geo W. Whitehead   45 4th St. Fall River  Sister of Mrs. Borden who was murdered never heard that any of the Morses was Insane but ugly.  Since the murder people have said if she is guilty she must be Insane.

Mrs. William Almy Franklin St.  Fall River  Always known the Bordens and the Morses, but for several years I have not known much aboute any of them.  Some 30 years ago my husband who is now dead was in company with Mr. Borden.  I use to know the brother of Mrs. Morse (Lizzies Mother) also her sister.  I think their was 4 brothers.  I have never heard that their was any Insanity or anything like it among any of the Morses.

Chester W. Green   80 years old lives in Fall River and have for 40 years.  I know the Bordens and the Morses but I dont know much aboute.  Never heard as any of them was ever Insane or anything like it.

William Carr lived in Fall River for 40 years  I know the Bordens better than I know the Morses.  The Bordens are peculiar people but I never heard that any of the Bordens or the Morses is or was ever Insane.

Respectfully.
Moulton Batchelder
Dist. Police

HK102
Report, handwritten in ink. 

Just glanced at your post Kat. One line in Southard Miller's statement caught my eye:

"Bridget, the Servant girl came running into my house and said both was dead just then a man was passing."

I don't remember Bridget running around after Abby was found. Am I forgetting something?

I saw that too, and looked in the witness statements and the time-line in the back of Rebello.
On page 44 of W.S. see Alexander Coggeshall.  He says he was "the man" Miller called over to be the *witness* to Bridget's story, that "Mr. Borden and his wife had BOTH been murdered.".  He says he then went to his dinner ; by the clock in the restaurant
it was then 11:20.
In Rebello's time-line, page 579, he gives the timing as to when approx. Abby's body was found as between 11:25 and 11:30 a.m.
Unless Mr. S. Miller did the deed, then I theorized that it was Bridget's SECOND TRIP over to Bowen's house, after Abby was found, when she was sent for Mrs. Dr, Bowen(pg 84, Prelim)...which would mean Coggeshall's timing by a clock could be off by 10 minutes or so. 
That was my only idea as to an explanation..Perfect That You Caught THAT!

BUT:  Do you think Southard Miller DID IT?
Or Bridget?
I must admit to gleefully for one second thinking the case was solved!
(Oddly, this second trip of Bridget's is not catalogued in Radin or Rebello.)

(Message last edited Mar-23rd-02  2:48 AM.)

Right you are, Kat. That would have been sometime after 11:30. This is from Bridget's testimony at the trial (page 250):

Q.  Can you tell anything else that was done or said before you came down after having found this second dead body?
A.  No, sir, I cannot say, but they asked if I would go over and tell Mrs. Bowen to come over. I went over and told Mrs. Bowen, rung the front door bell and told her that Mrs. Borden was dead and they wanted her to come over.
Q.  That was another time that you went to Dr. Bowen's house?
A.  Yes, sir.
Q.  After you found Mrs. Borden dead?
A.  Yes, sir.
Q.  While you were speaking to Mrs. Bowen the second time you went to the house, did you see anyone else, did anyone else come there?
A.  To Mrs. Bowen's?
Q.  Yes, or the adjoining door.
A.  Mr. Miller spoke to me and wanted to know what was the matter.
Q.  I don't care what he said.
A.  Mr. Miller spoke to me. That was all, I guess.

Another opportunity for Bridget to dump a hatchet somewhere. I think you had a post awhile back on the people that left the house that morning. 

I do think however that the crowd in the street could not yet have been very large. Certainly Bridget coming out of the house would have caused a stir. Morse said he arrived back at the house about 11:40 (page 150, trial) and he didn't notice any large crowd gathered.

When Morse returned he said he saw Bridget in the house. So she either went over and back between 11:30 and 11:40 or after Morse got back.

Thanks for the Trial info, Harry.  That included Miller to our satisfaction.
At the web-site I had researched and posted a section in CHRONOLOGIES called "Probable Sequence Of Events After Murders Discovered"...that's where I got the *instant* Prelim. page as to Bridget leaving the house the second time.  This "Sequence" does NoT encompass WHEN Morse came, because it's purpose, for ME, was to figure out WHO LEFT in the immediate time after the crime was *discovered*,  But you'll see a page # for testimony as to WHEN Bridget probably returned from Mrs. Dr. Bowen & Miller, and can compare that to the time you say Morse arrived.
This special chronology was VERY HARD to do, and does not match exactly other time-lines of a similar nature.  I think Radin, Caplain, Rebello, etc. all have their slight interpretations of times and events.
The case of ANDREW involves a matter of MINUTES either way.....THAT is Fascinating....

I noticed other small details that seemed interesting at the time of transcription.
Anything come to you under the heading JOHN BRAYTON?
If Anthony Morse, Lizzie's grandfather, used to own a milk route, I wondered if this is where she got *the idea* she tried to plant in Alice's mind, that the milk was poisoned ?

There's one or two more...that are, admittedly rather obscure...

(Message last edited Mar-24th-02  1:29 AM.)

As I remember from reading about something else decades ago, "epilepsy" was a polite synonym for "syphilis".
As in "he fell on his head while young and developed epilepsy" (also true for blows to the head). So maybe the Bordens rightly feared the "scorpion tongues of gossip" that can destroy reputations, and not just in politics!!!

Don't people tend to believe the worst rumors about people? What is your experience?

An interesting theory, but I just wanted to point out, due to the extreme horror of the deed and the general unreliablity of witnesses, Bridget's disclosing of the death of ONE Borden might well have been reported later on as an announcement of the death of BOTH.

(Ray, I thought of you at lunch, as the only Borden-themed book in my local library here in downtown NYC was the one by...Arnold Brown!)   

The "there's more here" remark...and that it would be "obscure", is related in my mind to the Jack the Ripper letters.  Seems many Riperologists now believe that most if not all the Ripper letters were fakes to increase newspaper sales, and that even the *alias* Jack the Ripper name was coined by an enterprising journalist.
One odd thing I noticed in transcribing this piece, is that Batchelder once miss-spells the "Borden" name as "BORDON".

THIS reminded me of the letter to D.A. Knowlton (HK012), pg. 22-3, dated Aug.12,1892 from Albany N.Y., where a certain PHILLIP GORDON REED writes and confesses he is the "illigitimate Son" of "old man BORDON", that "the instrument the deed was done with was a Lathers Hatchet and was dropped over board from a Fall River steamer"...that "the illigitimate who took the revenge is the Writer of this confession."...

--what got my attention was the spelling BORDON, same as in Batchelder's notes...and I wondered what were the chances that this letter, or some were written by INSIDERS for whatever reason...

I believe that "confession" from Albany was written by Joseph Carpenter (who lived there). Or someone who wanted to put suspicion on Joe C. The misspelling of "Bordon" was deliberate!!! If it leaked out, the letter writer could swear on a stack of bibles that he never wrote any letters about the 'Bordens'. Also, "I don't know anyone named Bordon". Logically true?

David Kent's book has the whole text. Its too much of a coincidence to not be true, IMO. Note that the letter exonerates Lizzie; maybe from her lawyers if not real? Nobody can prove who wrote it now.