The Lizzie Borden Society archive

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1. "'A Night with Miss Lizzie'"
Posted by bobcook848 on Mar-25th-02 at 4:44 PM

Well fellow Bordenites or Lizzieites, whichever you desire, as promised last week I am posting my much heralded overnight stay at the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast, 92 Second Street, Fall River. Of course technically the house is now numbered 230 as it has since 1985 when the City of Fall River renumbered all its dwellings.

Recall that my daughter shared the adventure with me as it was her 21st birthday on Saturday.  So from time to time in this posting I may use the terms 'us' or 'we' but primarily I will write from my own perspective in the tense of 'I'.

We live in Attleboro which is but 25 miles from Fall River by way of 95 through Providence then 195 East to our destination.  Remember that Frank Cole, on of the members of the 1893 jury, was from Attleboro.  We left our home at 315pm and arrived at 92 Second Street at 345pm.

After parking the car in the small lot across the street, I chose to park in the spot marked, "Reserved for the Secretary of Commonwealth" we gathered our overnight bags and made our way across the street.  After three or four knocks on the front door, the same one Andrew had difficulty with, we proceeded to the infamous 'side door' or back door as it is sometimes refered to.

Two knocks and the door was answered by a rather unassuming woman who introduced herself as Eleanor the day manager.  We entered the narrow back hallway facing the kitchen and after Eleanor confirmed our names escorted us to the front of the house.  There we climbed the same stairs Miss Lizzie had climbed for over twenty-one years.  In fact we were assigned to the "Miss Lizzie and Miss Emma" suite.

Of course to those of you who know the layout of the house we were but fifteen or twenty feet from the very spot Abbey Borden would be found lying face down on August 4, 1892.  The bedrooms are immaculent well appointed in period replications.  Original photos, few that there are, adorn the walls, bureaus, and desks. 

The suite is a two bedroom suite just as it was in 1892.  My daughter took to Lizzie's bedroom while I took Emma's room.  After getting settled in we returned to the first floor where Eleanor informed us that a family, mother and three daughters, were occupying the third entire third floor and had been there the previous night. 

Another two guest would be arriving soon to take up the Andrew and Abby suite, also a two bedroom unit with a private bath. We would use the shared bathroom at the front landing that was once the walk-in closet opposite Lizzie's room.  Eleanor stated that no one would be sleeping in the Morse room so we would have full private use of the front bath.

MMMMMMMMMM...I thought, no one sleeping in the Morse room eh?  Would it be possible I wondered aloud to switch our suite for the Morse suite?  Not a problem for Eleanor, but my daughter, well she wanted no part of it.  She was quite clear that sleeping IN the Morse room was not an option to be considered, thank you very much.  Our assigned rooms would do quite nicely. (I had to concede here folks afterall it was HER birthday, not mine)

Soon the other guest arrived and we all met in the sitting room for coffee and theories.  I offered my "illegimate son" theory which was I think taken under advisement.  I did preface my remarks with my usual, "this is only a theory".  After a quick trip out for a little supper it was back to the B & B for the excitement.

We were informed that at precisely "8PM" a grand tour of the house, including the cellar, would be given by Eleanor.  With ample time I began to look upon their collection of various Lizzie Borden books.  I found the revered Leonard Rebello "bible" and inquired were I might purchase my own private copy.  Lo and behold there was one copy left in the gift shop which I purchased immediately.

The book was a treasure find for me as I have had a copy on reserve from the Seekonk Library for over three weeks.  To add further joy to the purchase I found that the copy had been authographed by Len himself.  I was in seventh heaven, you just cannot imagine.

At around 7pm while our small band of Bordenites were assembled in the parlor watching videos of various Lizzie Borden extractions there appeared at the door of the parlor a man asking the whereabouts of Eleanor.  I directed him to the kitchen as that was the last place we had seen her.  As he turned to walk in that direction our group began issuing possible relationships of this man and Eleanor.

The most prevelant was that he was her husband, whom she had mentioned many times earlier.  Withing ten minutes Eleanor appeared at the door of the parlor with this man in close tow.  She stepped into the room and said, "ladies and gent I would like to introduce an old friend of the Lizzie Borden B & B and a local authority on the subject, please allow me to introduce to you, Mr. Leonard Rebello". 

Well sports fans I needed tell which B & B guest seated in that parlor came close to wetting himself.  Yes, I confess, I was that thrilled to have met the author of a book I now held so close to my heart.  You see I have spent these past four weeks "studying" the Borden and have, to date, read not less than five books on the subject.

Being the only male in the crowd I leapt to my feet and raced over to "Len" and shook his hand and praise his name and I really started to act like a goof.  He on the other was as humble of 'Mom, apple pie and the flag'.  We took up residence in the sitting room for over an hour and a half while he filled me in on his upcoming new book and all the other things I wanted to know about not only the Borden case but the history of Fall River.

I had my daughter take a couple of photos of us and I will soon post them on a thread for all to see.  Leonard Rebello is a unique person so rich in history and never once did he issue as definitive "who-dun-it".  As he told me and the other guests, who had given up on the videos, his book is a reference "bible" not a "who-dun-it".  He had his own theories but he wasn't ready to share them, not just yet.

After Len left the house Eleanor conducted the "grand tour" which ended in the cellar.  Sadly the cellar is like many others around the country, basically a collection station for all things not found in other rooms.  But knowing that Bridget once did the Borden laundry at the old sink in the corner and that Miss Lizzie and Miss Russell made the midnight trip to the privy with the slop pail kind of gave me the creepies.

At around 10pm all the young ladies of the house, five of them, gathered first in the sitting room then in the Morse room with the ouiji board hoping to conjure up the "spirits".  After an hour of "conjuring" they concluded that this was not the night for things that go bump in the night.  At the time they began their boarding there was changing of the guard in the kitchen. 

Eleanor bid us good evening and we were now in the care of Dave Quigley, the night manager.  Both Eleanor and Dave are retired people who have been with the B & B a number of years, Dave does the cooking in the morning.  Both have appeared on various television productions and take tremendous pride in their work and knowledge of the Borden history.  Lest I mention their "motherly" and "fatherly" care of their guest.

Dave gave me a bit more insight into the history of the B & B taking me through the 1940' when John and Josephine McGinn purchased the property and operated the printing company which is attached to the house.  He brought me up to present day ownership, that of Sally McGinn (widow of John II McGinn) and her daughter Martha McGinn, who with Ron Evans, turned the house into the magnificant Museum and B&B we enjoy today.

As the clock on the mantle in the sitting room, the same mantle where Andrew placed the key to his bedroom, struck eleven I bade Dave a good night and retired to the Emma room.  My daughter had made her way to the Lizzie room and was lying on her bed writing in her journal the outcome of the ouiji board adventure.

After preparing myself in my night clothes and a quick visit to the bathroom I retired to my bedroom for a quiet nights rest.  Well if anyone is expecting this story to go askew with tales of noises and groans and things doing a bump-in-the-night, you will be disappointed.

Aside from the occasional street noise I didn't hear a thing, nope not even "laughter from the stairs".  I wasn't disappointed either, as I detest interrupted sleep.  I awoke at 630am and after waking my daughter we prepared ourselves for the day. 

Down stairs Dave had breakfast well underway with plenty of hot coffe, tea and hot chocolate.  Precisely at 8am Dave sounded the call to breakfast in the dining room, the very dining room that Andrew and Abby's bodies were "laid out in", though not the same table.

There we feasted on genuine Yankee johnnycakes with butter and syrup, cornbread muffins, scrambled eggs, ham, home-fries, and endless orange juice.  The meal was five star *****.  The only thing missing from the table were the much talked about bananas.  But I didn't think about it until the ride home an hour later.  Next visit I will remind Dave that bananas are a MUST.

After breakfast we made our way to the gift shop for those "last minute" Lizzie needs, T-shirt and soaps for my daughter and current copy of the Lizzie Borden Quarterly for me.  I paid my bill of fare to Michelle the bookkeeper, her mother Jeanne is the housekeeper, we gave our good-byes to Dave and made our way to the car across the street.

Before we left Fall River though we walked around the neighborhood for photo ops then it is homeward bound back to Attleboro.  Of all the hours spent at the B & B, I have to confess that meeting Len Rebello is the tops.  In all my life, all short 50 years, I have never met an author in the flesh, Len broke that chain.  He even told me to call him, he is actually listed in the book. 

If you and of you have been to the B & B you know what I am saying here, for those of us who have yet to experience the house on Second Street try, try to travel to Fall River and meet those wonderful and caring people who care for us as we care for the Legend of Lizzie Borden.  Peace.

BC

Bob, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us, it was charming & delightful.  1st time meeting an author in the flesh...it must be fate!    How marvelous you met Len Rebello!  I tell you, you have more intestinal fortitude than me to want to sleep in the Morse bedroom; I'd be so leery of "bad vibes" I probably wouldn't sleep at all.  Glad you had such a good time!

SIGH!...
That was wonderful...--kk

Oh come on now...I didn't write all that to depress anyone...I know I am one of the unknown numbers of forum members who has the full upper advantage...I live only 25 miles from the scene, er, house so I can almost anytime just pop in the car and drive over there.  We should try to work on group meeting there sometime maybe later this year, I am sure we could reserve the whole place top to bottom and I'll bet we could even invite Len over to speak.  Some food for future thoughts eh?  bc

BC

Sounds like you had a nice time Bob. Haven't been there yet myself but who knows, maybe someday.

Thanks for the summary. I think I'd prefer Lizzie's room too.

See?  I knew you'd have a wonderful time!  I've had the good fortune to meet so many of the "Fall River Players" in The House over the years.  One question - were you planning to sleep on the floor of the guest room, if you'd moved in there with your daughter?  There is only that one bed in that room, and since you gave your daughter Lizzie's bed and took the smaller one in Emma's room, I feel sure that you'd have given her the guest room bed, too!  Congratulations!

Though I heard of the countless "hundreds" who have stayed in the Morse Room and actually slept on the spot where Abby met her maker, I wasn't charmed with the thought one single bit.  Not that sleeping on "the" spot would have any affect on me that I would subcribe to, I just thought that the act was a bit much.  But to each its own who am I to judge the desires of others?  Though sleeping in the house was an adventure I still confess that meeting Len Rebello was the high point of the stay.  I have the two pictures developed of he and I and as soon as I figure out this darn scanner I will post the better of the two.  bc

BC

I have a picture of myself on the "spot," but Jay and I were more than comfy in the guest room bed, though it was a little short for me (I'm nearly 6').  Except for having to ask the night attendant to turn down the TV in the parlor, we had a restful night, indeed.  This was our first visit.  George Quigley, who worked there at the time, gave the four of us who were staying over a THREE-HOUR tour of the house, which was heaven.

Dave is tops, not only is he well versed in the history of the house but of all the real players.  He knows everyone and anyone who has been associated with the house since Lord only knows when.  And to top it all off, he's one heck of a cook too!!  He did a magnificant breaskfast for us.  I will be returning soon.  bc

BC

Thanks for sharing your experiences overnight at the Borden house.  I can imagine from your description what fun it was to meet the author, Leonard Rebello and I am sure he also enjoyed interactions with you and the other guests just as much. I wanted to ask you some questions, which, if you don't consider them too nosy, perhaps I could prevail upon you for comments.

I was curious as to why the other guests chose the Borden house to stay in:  were they also researchers of the case, had been there before, just picked a B & B not knowing about the relevance of the name, or other reasons?  Are you going to stay at Maplecroft as well?

I also found it interesting that you were there with your daughter and were so solicitous of her desires (to not take the Morse room)especially because this stay was a birthday gift.  But it intrigued me also because of the father/daughter issues in the Borden murder case.  Did you have any thoughts about Mr. B. and his relationships with Emma and Lizzie that being in the house brought up in your mind?  For instance, being a father (although the times are different) and being attentive to your own daughter's needs, how do you think of Mr. B. and his seemingly detached or cold attitude to his own daughters needs as far as socialization, comfort and wants? I am curious as to how a father, being in such close proximity to the rooms in which a very peculiar family relationship existed between father and daughters, would relate, since you are a researcher.  Does being in the house change your view of Mr. B. in that respect?
Did you have any thoughts on the spaciousness of the house inside, did it seem small or close or too confining for 5 people to have lived in over time during the l892 period without adding to the tensions?  

I can think of more questions but I better post this so I don't get disconnected from the internet again.  Hope to hear from you if you are so inclined.  Thanks.

Carol:  I will be more than pleased to respond to your questions.

The mother and three daughters from Dallas TX rooming on the entire third floor had originally planned to vacation in Maine, as the mother had never seen the tree covered mountains.  Her travel agent had just come upon some info regarding Fall River and the B & B and made the recommendation.  The woman purchased the idea.  One of her twin daughters was a Lizzie fan and had read a couple of books, she admitted that she didn't know nearly enough to make her feel she could quote on the case.  They were very pleased with the house.

The other woman was a retired person who had in her company her granddaughter, it was the child's sixteenth birthday.  The woman had been to the B & B on a couple of other occasions and was knowledgable of the case.  The granddaughter also had done some reading however she offered little input.

I do intend to stay at Maplecroft, providing it is still a B & B, I have to give them a call and check out the details, availability and price.  My daughter has said she too will go along.

Staying in the Morse Room was entirely up to my daughter, I would have had no problems with sleeping in there, but she felt "spooked" by the whole idea.  Even before I made confirmed reservations she made it point to INSIST that we were NOT TO ASK for the Morse Room.

I guess she's not as adventureous as I am.  I haven't had any encounters with ghosts or spirits so at this point in my life I am still open to suggestion.  I have told my daughter that if I should encounter a one-on-one with a spirit, I shall at once be confirmed!!!

Like the late Mr. Borden I am sure that he and I shared similar emotions toward our daughter(s).  Though I have not deeded property to my daughter I did buy her first car for her while she was in High School (but I did the same for her two brothers). 

From what has been published and what is known Mr. B. wasn't the warm and fuzzy daddy that some of us are, in fact I think he had all the effections of a snow pea.  My daughter is not an overly affectionate young lady either though my wife and I never spared the hugs and kisses when your three were growing up.

I guess they each have developed their own individual traits and that is that.  I could surmise that my daughter and I had a similar somewhat "clinical" relationship comparable to Andrew and his Lizzie.
I have yet to read that he and Emma were close by any stretch of the imagination.

The closeness of the four Bordens and their maid was, I gather, quite typical of the era.  Their interpersonal relationships within the house will probably never be known as they rarely, if ever, discussed them with "outsiders".  And if we believe Bridget's testimony, they were rather "cordial" towards one another.  We may never know.

The exterior of the house is deceiving in appearance.  If you have seen modern photos, those that do the house justice, you might think that the house is narrow and shallow.  But looks are not everything.
The interior of the house is incredibly large and there is ample space for movement.

I am still baffled by the volume of space.  Each room is much larger than the exterior might suggest.  It is not hard to imagine five people living inside.  Remember too that this building was built as a two family unit.  So at one time there may have been upwards of ten or more people living within. 

Though the house is listed as being a two and one-half structure it could easily be construed as being a "three story" house.  The third floor is vast in space.  The owners of the B & B utilized every inch of floor space when they remodeled in 1995. 

You really must get there sometime and take the museum tour or better yet...spend a night with Miss Lizzie....more on that later...bc

BC

Thanks Bob for answering my questions regarding your visit.  The house must be much more spacious that I have thought.  But being rather a loner myself I couldn't fatham living all day every day with four other people around all the time.

I was wondering if you have a comment on the "laughter on the stairs" problem.  Having been in the house and on the stairs you would be able to know about how far up you would have to be before you might not be able to hear Bridget "swear" because she was having trouble with the lock.  I don't think that she ever said she saw Lizzie on the stairs, just that she heard her laugh on the stairs.  Would Bridget, being a maid in the house with her employer, the reserved Mr. B. just outside, have sworn very loudly?  And why wouldn't Lizzie, if it was her on the stairs laughing, have not come right down those stairs.  From the testimony I get a picture of her or whoever it was stopping on the stairs out of sight and then coming down later, when both Mr. B. and Bridget had gone through to the sitting room. It would have taken Bridget time to unlock the locks, open the door, Mr. B. would have to step in, and then they would have met and gone off down the front hall.  What would have been the reason for the person on the stairs to have kept in seclusion on the stairs during this episode and still have laughed.  If you want to remain unknown you don't laugh.

If a person was on the upstairs landing would they have heard a person swearing below if you assume it was a low swear or a normal voice? 

Lizzie already admitted to being upstairs to take up some laundry so the fact that she was on the stairs at one time during the morning wasn't an issue, even though she had some problems remembering exactly where she was at the moment her father came home.  I don't remember if any of the attorneys asked her if she heard Bridget swear and laughed at it.

Carol, glad you're bACK!  I thought you might be having computer problems...

If Bridget heard Lizzie, wouldn't it follow that Lizzie heard Bridget?

There was a question, in a book, at one time, as to whether that laugh of Lizzie's on the stairs happened Wednesday, the Day before.  That was also in the morning, and Dr. Bowen came unannounced to check on how Andrew was feeling.  That morning, also, I believe, Lizzie (or a figure) ran up the stairs when Bowen was admitted.  If she was not quite ready to receive Bowen, being as how she gets up *late*, she might have giggled and raced back upstairs, when he was let in.

Do we know who let Dr. Bowen in, on Wednesday morning?
If it was Bridget, this author's theory Could have happened...if not, then forget it.

I don't remember reading if anyone said who let Dr. Bowen in but I would suspect he didn't even get inside the house, probably Mr. B. met him at the door when he told him to "get lost," so to speak. 

But it matches more for me, seeing Lizzie's personality as not an emotionally expressive one, prone to giggling, especially when the day before the murders it was a day when several members of the household were feeling ill, that the laughter up the stairs situation occurred on the murder morning.

It also seems to fit more for me that it wasn't Lizzie that exclaimed on the stairs in response to Bridget's swearing because from what I have observed it was not in Lizzie's nature to spontaneously respond to anything. 

I wonder if Lizzie was aware that Bridget had made that comment to the police about hearing Lizzie laugh on the stairs?  If so Lizzie could have changed her inquest testimony to remove herself from being on the stairs at the moment Bridget let Mr. B. in, thereby putting herself here and there but not on the stairs, but why bother? 

If she thought she ought not to be found as coming downstairs when Bridget let her father in, because eventually she knew Abby's body would be found upstairs and people would wonder why she didn't know the body was in the room, then why did she admit to being upstairs at another time during the morning.  It doesn't make sense.

Like Kat am glad to "see" you back Carol. 

Regarding the front entry and staircase to the second floor.  Those who have been in that entry foyer know that from virtually any spot just inside the front door one can see the entire staircase to the landing on the second floor.  Standing at the bottom of the stairs and moving northerly away from the stairs one still has a clear view to the top step.

If Bridget had in fact "heard" Lizzie laugh as she struggled with the lock, "Oh, Pshaw!!!", and had she in fact turned to her left she in fact have seen Lizzie if in fact Lizzie were standing on the top step or any lower step.  She might not however see Lizzie if Lizzie were standing on the landing itself.

Kat poses an interesting theory as well...suppose that the laughter had in fact been the day before and Bridget simply recalled this event as having occured on Thursday.  In a house should as the Borden family lived where routine was the order of the day, one event could likely run into the next and boredum was, I am sure, an ample commodity.

I to have not read any dialogue regarding who actually opened the door for poor Dr. Bowen on Wednesday when he took his tongue lashing for being the "good Doctor".  If Bridget were in the kitchen, as she would be in the early morning, she would have more than likely responded to the door bell...the rest would be, as we say, history.

BC

Greetings Bordenites: 
I'm brand new to this forum.  So happy to have found it. I have been a fan of the murders since the early 1960's when I bought Radin's book in paperback to ease me through a long Greyhound ride. As you will see, I have infected the next two generations with the fever. 

I have slept in the Uncle John room with my daughter and teenage grandaughter. My grandaughter was to have slept on a rollout bed which was originally placed across the room.  She was not happy being way over there and we moved the bed to cover Abby's death spot. But that didn't make her happy either.  Her mom finally slept on the rollaway.  We kept the light on all night and I was very careful when rolling over not to open my eyes.  I didn't want to know what I might see.  There were no spooky happenings.

Regarding size, after reading V. Lincoln's description of the house being so much smaller than the floor plan indicated, the place was roomier than I expected. I grew up on a house were the rooms were smaller. The experience of being there was powerful after so many years of reading and thinking. I'd go again.

Welcome into our home Nanajan we hope you find this a fun and exciting forum...I am a newbie as well having joined in the past six months.  Everyone is so friendly and well informed I am sure you will have theories and thoughts to add to the many in here.

I am a local guy from Attleboro and as you may have read just recently spent a wonderful evening at the B & B with my daughter. The occasion was her 21st birthday we loved.  She slept in Lizzie's room and I in Emma's room.  The Morse was empty all night, even the spirits took the night off.

Looking forward to sharing thoughts and theories with you, again from of the many within, Welcome Home.

BC