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Lizzie Andrew Borden

 

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Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden
Topic Name: That ole Prince Albert Coat

1. "That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by Kat on Apr-23rd-02 at 4:41 PM

A very nice Bordenite lent us the video to watch, 92 Second Street:  The House Where Lizzie Killed! .
Saw it last night.
Over the title they show the "disputed" Lizzie group photo, which only 2 people on earth believe is Lizzie, and I won't name names, because they've probably changed their mind by now!

One theory stated was that Uncle Morse left the house as stated in Bridget's testimony, out the side door, but then Lizzie quickly let HIm back in the FRONT Door, so that he could immediately proceed upstairs and murder Abby.  This is part of a *two person dun-it* theory...

The interviewee proceeded to dicuss that ole Prince Albert coat...'Lizzie probably wore it front-to-back"....WHY do I keep hearing that?
Are some people of the opinion that a Prince Albert coat is a *cut-away* coat?  If it was, it would have been described as such( "with tails", as the person interviewed says...).  I have twice included a link to this coat, and it looks like a full coat to me.  Just really long.  No need to turn it backwards.
If you go look at this coat, a window will open in front of your view...just wait a few seconds and the coat will appear.

http://www.kubemoden.de/shop/p808.html

(Message last edited Apr-23rd-02  4:44 PM.)


2. "Re: That ole disputed photo"
Posted by Kat on Apr-23rd-02 at 5:05 PM
In response to Message #1.






(Message last edited Apr-23rd-02  5:08 PM.)


3. "Re: That ole disputed photo"
Posted by Kat on Apr-23rd-02 at 5:21 PM
In response to Message #2.


4. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by NanaJan on Apr-24th-02 at 10:42 PM
In response to Message #1.

Too much open v-neck if you put the coat on frontwards.  Risk of splashage. Buttons to mess with.  If I were doing the deed, I'd put the coat on back to front. Voila, instant, total coverage and no buttoning. Also I've tried to imagine standing there with a bloody dripping axe. What to do next?  There was no trail of blood leading away. How about this..the killer places the axe against his/her abdomen, leans forward and shrugs off the coat, wrapping the axe and drying it off before stuffing the coat down into the sofa.


5. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by Kat on Apr-24th-02 at 11:27 PM
In response to Message #4.

Yes, now I see what you mean.
The coat itself looks as if it has ornamental buttons only, at least until  the waist-line.  The drawing then seems to show the coat closed at that point, which might indicate hidden buttons further down the front.
That's a new perspective.  Thanks.


6. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by william on Apr-25th-02 at 12:12 PM
In response to Message #5.

Kat:

Having killed Abby, just a short time before, Lizzie is now an experienced and accomplished serial killer.  She realizes that blood can fly all over the place so some remedy must be found.
Would you grab your old man's coat for a coverall and protective device?  I wouldn't. It seems a bit complicated.  How about a dress worn over the dress she is wearing? Well, Lizzie was too fastidious to sacrifice one of her own dresses in such a manner.  I can see Lizzie's mind working: "How about step-moms dress? Good idea! Big enough to slip over my dress and she certainly wouldn't be in a position to complain about it later if it becomes soiled."

Yes, I know this sounds facetious, but it is plausible.  After doing the dirty deed she could easily dispose of her, eh, step-mom's dress in the stove, along with the hatchet.  The head could be removed later on and dumped somewhere.
Bill

(Message last edited Apr-25th-02  12:13 PM.)


7. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by Edisto on Apr-25th-02 at 1:10 PM
In response to Message #6.

My main problem with all these activities of a very busy Lizzie is that she described herself by saying, "I do not do things in a hurry." (or words to that effect).  Nobody disagreed with her on that point, and the accounts of her activities seem to agree with that assessment.  On the morning of August 4, she seems to have done two chores.  She sewed a loop on a garment, and she ironed a few hankies.  She would have had to do a helluva lot in a hurry to do all the things she was supposed to be doing later that morning.  If the hatchet had been put into the stove immediately after Andrew was struck with it, how could she be sure the handle, made of very hard wood and probably wet with blood, would burn?  Did she burn a few gory test hatchets beforehand?  Of course, if she did put the hatchet into the stove, that might explain the ashes on the hatchet head found in the cellar.  -But wasn't an unburned portion of the handle found with the head? -And when and how did she fish the hatchet head out of the stove and stash it in the cellar for the police to find?   Weren't there people all around her after she gave the alarm?  If she fished it out right away, wouldn't she have burned her hands?  I can see her hopping around on one foot, howling "Geez, that smarts!"


8. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by Kat on Apr-25th-02 at 2:49 PM
In response to Message #6.

I've pictured Lizzie in Mrs. Bordens clothes.  But I belive Edisto once pointed out the VOLUME of fabric might be prohibitive as to burning up in the stove so soon after the crime.

But, we do KNOW that 2 aprons were listed as buried with the bloody clothing.

I've wondered if ONE of those aprons (being Abby's) would have just as well done the trick.  Lizzie and Bridget both deny remembering wearing, or seeing the other in, an apron that day...So why TWO aprons?


9. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by nanajan on Apr-25th-02 at 7:12 PM
In response to Message #8.

I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that the apron would have been plain cotton. A very scientific experiment just conducted in my kitchen revealed that water spashed on a flat-woven, cotton dish towel will soak through to whatever is beneath it within seconds. Even if it were starched (did they use that stuff?) I don't think it would repel much mositure.


10. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by rays on Apr-26th-02 at 11:55 AM
In response to Message #9.

Can anyone who is Lizzie's size try on the topcoat of a 6'2" man and see just how this works in front of witnesses? Will she trip by stepping on the hem? Enough space to swing that hatchet?


11. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by Susan on May-1st-02 at 3:29 AM
In response to Message #10.

How tall exactly was Lizzie?  I'm 5'9", I know tall for a girl, but, not for a model.    I remember reading it somewhere, but, cannot remember?


12. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by Edisto on May-1st-02 at 9:52 AM
In response to Message #11.

Lizzie was around 5'4" tall.  I believe that came from the police blotter reflecting her arrest.  I know her weight wasn't recorded, and her hair and eyes were described only as "light," so that may not be totally accurate.  Some of the newspapers reported on the fact that she wasn't a large person.


13. "Re: That ole Prince Albert Coat"
Posted by Susan on May-1st-02 at 11:43 AM
In response to Message #12.

Thanks, Edisto!  So, I believe that a woman of 5'4" putting on Andrew's Prince Albert coat would be amply shielded.  They never did check that folded up coat on the lounge.  What a bungled investigation!



 

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