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1. "When Did Abby "Return"?"
Posted by Kat on Jan-23rd-02 at 2:49 AM

Mrs. Churchill, at the Inquest, pg. 128, claims that when she arrived at Lizzie's side, "I said 'Where is your mother?'  She says I don't know, she had a note to go and see someone that was sick this morning, but I don't know but they have killed her too...."
Churchill left for about 5 minutes, returned, "and very soon Dr. Bowen came in."..."...Lizzie, Bridget and I went as far as the dining room."   (Then they went to get a sheet). (pg.129) "Then Lizzie said she wished someone would go and try to find Mrs. Borden upstairs, so I went with Bridget."
(pg.132)"Q). When she said she thought she had heard her come in, was said before she said she wished you would go upstairs?
A). Yes, before that."

--So if Lizzie really believed Abby had gone out with a note she would have to have thought she heard her come in when:
1).When Lizzie sent Bridget across the street to Dr. Bowen's (but Bridget and / or Mrs. Dr. Bowen would have seen her...)
2).When Lizzie sent Bridget for Alice, before Mrs. Churchill noticed Lizzie in the screened doorway (maybe 2 or 3 minutes-and Abby Could NOT be returning by way of Bridget's direction)
3).When Mrs. Churchill leaves for 5 minutes to go for help catty-corner across the street (but then all the ones alerted would have noticed Abby returning...)

--So when could Lizzie effectively claim Abby returned without anyone noticing?

Previous to these questions quoted in testimony, Knowlton had quizzed Lizzie as to "her mother's" whereabouts all that morning.
Lizzie doesn't mention a NOTE through pages 62, 63, 64 and page 65 of Questioning...until:
A).She could (have gone to her room) while I was down cellar.
Q).Had you any knowledge of her GOING OUT OF THE HOUSE?
A).No sir.
Q).Had you any knowledge of her GOING OUT OF THE HOUSE?
A).She told me she had had a note.
...Q).Then why did you not suppose she had gone?
A). I supposed she had gone.
Q). Did you hear her come back?
A).I DID NOT HEAR HER COME BACK, but I supposed she went.
Q).When you found your father dead you supposed your mother had gone?
A).I did not know, I said to the people who came in 'I don't know whether Mrs. Borden is out or in; I wish you would see if she is in her room.'
Q).You supposed she was out at that time?
A).I UNDERSTOOD SO; I did not SUPPOSE anything about it.

--So when did Abby "return"?

--It has been theorized that the story of the note was to delay the finding of the body.  This would suggest that both bodies were planned to be found at the same time, to give the impression they had died at the same time (if Abby had just returned at 11:10 a.m.)--doesn't this negate the" Abby died first" for inheritence reasons?  And makes the murders seemingly easier to understand if they died at a similiar time, within one outrageous attack, by an "enemy of Father"?  Then the "planner" was such a complete amateur, that they wouldn't know of blood coagulation or rigor?

Has anyone read anything about modern forensic methodology pertaining to Abby's death?  Seems to me there is an article someplace about this.  If 1892 forensics was clearly not as advanced as today, then anything is possible about Abby's death.
On the other hand, why is it that no person came forth to testify that Abby visited them while they were sick?

Lizzie's various answers to that query are, for me, strong evidence of her involvement ("I don't know but that she is killed, too..." - I mean, come on now!).  By the time of the inquest, she may have regretted she ever said anything about having heard Abby return and having encouraged Addy and Maggie to look for her step-mother, so she dug in her heels, set that massive jaw and denied it, as noted above.

If the main motive was inheritence, and Lizzie somehow knew that Abby had to die first for Emma and herself to collect all the assests, then why the implication that they died at the same time, during the same frenzied attack?  Even Dr. Bowen "went along" with this reasoning for the first several chaotic minutes before his Doctors brain kicked into gear.(thinking Abby had "fainted" or "died of fright" implies maybe Lizzie put a "spin" on to Bowen which was never testified to or repeated...)

The more I think about this the more I have to include the possibility that Lizzie may have tried to buy poison.  Poison, also would likely kill about the same time--meaning there would be no CONTROL over who died first--so where is the inheritence motive in these scenerios?

(Message last edited Jan-23rd-02  10:48 PM.)

Hi:  In response to Joe last summer I wrote in to see if Dennis Owsley had ever been interested in the Lizzie case.  He is a leading forensic archaeologist (studies historical bones from archeo sites, etc. plus modern hard to solve murder cases).  He didn't answer my inquiry personally, I was told that he had a wide case load but that other forensic archeos might be interested in doing that.  No doubt they would have to just research the autopsy evidence, etc. I don't think they could dig up the graves as that question was already proposed and denied.  Does anyone else know of a forensic archeo who might take this on?  That would be great?  Wouldn't hurt to ask.

I always wondered why / if the FRHS had the handless hatchet tested for DNA, or any other souvenirs(sp) they may have, like the swatch of Abby's wig-hair, or the bedspread.....
We'd have to all go digging in the night to get anything I guess.  Somehow I don't see official consent coming anytime soon.

If Lizzie and Emma were content with 2/3 portion of the estate if Abby died second (poison) then they would HAVE to be desperate...that would still equal MORE than the rumored 25,000 each under a new will, wouldn't it?  They would have to have been willing for the Whitehead family to get Abby's 1/3 widow's portion with no will found...ooo, that might rankle.