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1. "rose red"
Posted by Stefani on Jan-27th-02 at 11:28 PM

Well, I've been had! I saw this 1/2 hour documentary on the "real" rose red house in Seattle about 5:30 today, during halftime, and it had me hooked. I kind of detected a bit of rehearsed responses and the "documentary" was slick and well done. I love Stephen King anyway, so I didn't need that to want to watch the TV mini series by the same name that aired part one tonight.

But I was intrigued by the story. I think it was well done and a great tale. I went to the abc.com website and lo and behold the entire story is King's invention. There is a great website about it with links to any major online bookstore, each selling the diary. But it is all pure King.

Great mix of documentary, diary, Internet, TV and literature. Three cheers for the effort.

I don't see why King needs all that hype..unless he is legitamately flirting with a kingdom that includes forevermore, the Internet etc.
The first part of the series was SO WINCHESTER HOUSE, with some Hill House (Shirley Jackson) thrown in.  YOU know the Winchester, Stef, You were there...
Makes me think the tie-ins, book, mini-series internet site et all, might be because there's something LAckinG & they hope we won't Notice?

God I was so had by this hoax!!!!!!!!!!!....until I went to amazon and read the reviews.

I almost bought Ellen Rimbauer's diary. KIng is such a prankster. U know he wrote it of course. All he did was TRY to write from a woman's point of view, which he has done well before (Dolores Claiborne, etc), so he gives the diary's narrative a feminine and emotional style, and throwns in a few daring sexual bits like Ellen's attraction to her African maid, or where Ellen eavesdrops on her philandering husband committing "unspeakable acts" with girls who are "barely budding", just to titillate. And of course, the seances,and supernatural phenomena, like rooms changing and disappearing, etc. God I wish this story WAS true, its so good!! I LOVE that creepy old mansion, I wanna live there . Ya, I'll probably buy this fake diary anyway, just cuz I hear its a clear, compelling and entertaining read.

I'm delighted you opened this topic, Stef.  I'd never even HEARD of "Rose Red" until this weekend, when a bout of flu left me stupified & channel surfing.  I've watched the 1st 2 episodes.

Yes, Kat--I too noticed the Winchester connection right away.

Dave--King's no stranger to "ghost" authoring.  Back in the 80s he tried to shake off some of his celebrity & horror "genrification" by writing under the psuedonym Richard Bachman, but savvy reviewers spotted his style right away & blew the whistle.  The publisher certainly didn't care; made the Bachman stuff instant bestsellers.  Also, this whole "hoax" thing reminds me of the hype (faux documentary, etc.) used before the release of "The Blair Witch Project". 

Art reflects its era, & that's the secret to King's popularity.  Western culture is ruled by fear, & that's what makes King so seductive.  Fear is a survival mechanism.  Things come thru to us as negative so that we pay attention.  However, Western society has elevated fear into an object of reverence.  It's a manifestation of an imbalance in society. 

What got me into this movie was that the parallels with my own upcoming book are quite interesting.  A Victorian woman's diary, a haunted house, secret panels, etc etc.  However, what King leaves secret & dark in his work, I illuminate & reveal in mine.  I'm very interested in the ending of "Rose Red", but I have a feeling it will leave me as unsatisfied as most of King's doom & gloom.

Am I advertising MY book?  Sure, I don't have King's gazillions...& I need to finance my future work 

My book, "The Paradox of Paradise" should be out by this spring.  My publisher has been dragging its heels, much to my frustration.  I'll be sure to post the links when it's available.

Anyone interested in "Rose Red" should like my book.  & Kat---from what I know about you (yes, I'm mostly a shameless lurker!), I believe you'll LOVE my book.

T.

I just watched Helter Skelter, Friday night, the Manson movie, on private video.  His philosophy, as explained by one of his ex-minions was to teach them to live in fear...Fear = Awareness...puts you "in the now", in the Moment, and that "Living in the Moment is ALL."  Sounds like what you said about Western Culture, Tina K.
Stef and I discussed the "documentary" she had caught, before we each watched the first episode of rose red.  After her re-telling, I said "With all your expertise on the Internet, and all my dozens books on the paranormal, between us we would know about this place, under any name..."  She agreed and so we decided it WAS a hoax and a Hype.
I've not yet met a male writer who can convincingly write as a female character..some may disagree, but that's my stance. Wilke Collins came the closest...In the current LBQ there is an example of a man trying to think like a woman, and it just doesn't come off.  Assuming Emma would be holding Lizzie emotionally captive and a pawn in a tug-of-love with Abby, until Emma is "sent away to school" is an example of the not knowing a female mind.  Perhaps , at 14, Emma might welcome a respite from being Lizzie's little mother and would prefer to have her teenage life to herself.  It may have been a personality clash with Abby, not a duel over Lizzie....
Regardless, yes, I'm sure I'd like your book about Victorian women By a Woman.
And "shameless lurkers" are SO COOL!!!

Kat, I recently (finally) saw Helter Skelter on A&E a few month's back, tho I read the book back in the late 70s.  Manson, what a brilliant (but thoroughly twisted) mind!  Evil personified.

I lurk mostly because I'm not as well-versed in the Lizzie particulars, tho I enjoy reading others' comments.  Once I satisfied myself on the "why" Lizzie did it, I haven't thrown myself into the investigation with such passion.

Re my book--it also includes a Victorian woman's diary.  A LOT different than King, tho.  My Victorian lady (Adela) is the illegitimate daughter of a British newspaperman & an Egyptian bellydancer!  My other heroine is one of her descendants, who sets out to learn about Adela's life.  Coincidently, her name is Katia, nick-named "Kit-Kat", etc.    If you like, I can email you my outline.  Once my publisher gets it together & has everything up on its website in the next few months, they'll have the outline & the 1st chapter for anyone who's interested.

Oh, & Kat, excellent sleuthing, BTW re yr post on Andrew's 1st will!

Oh, Tina-K., How can you be "satisfied" as to "WHY"?
My "why" changes, my "who" changes, my "what with" changes....

I'm pleased with your offer of an advance peek at your outline, though I don't know what one looks like.  It must be brave to write fiction...I can only tell the truth.  It's almost a handicap.
BTW:  Our cousin's wife is a belly-dancer in Las Vegas, and her father is a magician!

IMO, the best fiction IS truth told thru story format.  My "outline" is a one page synopsis of my book, without revealing the ending, of course. 

How I satisfied myself to the "why" is a long story, spanning years.  In a nutshell, it deals with my initial fascination with the story & the gut feelings I had.  Certain connections in my own life I shared with Lizzie.  My trip to Fall River, which turned out to be amazingly akin to a "pilgrimage", & what I learned while there.  My personal psychic gift (which most people would think is a load of hooey).  Basically, my opinion is the end result of a circumspect view of her story from many angles.

What it comes down to at the base, I believe, is Lizzie never felt truly loved.  Nor was she ever free to become her own person, her true self.  She felt trapped.  She believed her life was controlled by others.  She feared for her survival, feared her father would leave her destitute.  The trapped, enraged animal inside her finally broke free.  However, the end result of her misdirection was that she found herself in another trap of her own making.  Like I mentioned re Western culture, Lizzie is a daughter of Western culture.  I don't think of her as a victim, but a case history of how human beings can fall in our society.  She's not so far from Manson in many ways.  In our world, $ is placed before love, there is a dreaded fear of poverty, etc etc.

Oh, BTW, thought I should mention there ARE works of Stephen King I greatly admire.  "The Shawshank Redemption" is a masterpiece, which earned my respect for him.  However, so many of his works have disappointed me, & I believe it has to do with the speed at which he writes.  Sometimes he doesn't take the time to fully develop his ideas, which is a damn shame.  He is a great talent, which IMO is all too often wasted.

T.

Rose Red:

1st off, you were so right, Kat.  This story definitely came from a combo of the Winchester House & Shirley Jackson's classic.

Once again, King has let a story with enormous potential slide into a meaningless spook show.

What I dislike is how things like this make a mockery of true psychic abilities, which are God given.  Everyone has them in different degrees.  It's never something to fear, only joyous experiences of higher knowledge that helps us to grow. 

Fantasy ghoulish images of rotting corpses that appear is something I find rather laughable.  It capitalizes on the idea that death is something to fear, when in reality it is only a natural progression of the soul.  Anyone with true psychic ability knows what a crock of lies these kinds of stories are.

Sure, there is evil in this world, but it's not as powerful as we think.  The only power evil has is the power WE give it. When you understand where it comes from, you're no longer afraid of it.  Evil is to be pitied, not feared.  It always destroys itself in the end.

King wastes his talent on his overt horror writing because it makes $.  King was born into poverty & had to fight his way out.  He wants to ensure his family never has financial trouble again, & that's why he fritters away his talents on the ghoulish stuff that sells.  Fear of poverty.

If only he'd write more along the lines of "The Body" ("Stand by Me") & "The Green Mile".  Those things have elements of evil, but they're based on truth.

Lizzie:

To get inside Lizzie, all you have to do is read her will.  She left a large sum for the care of animals, for in them, she found the unconditional love she did not find in humanity.  All one has to do is see what she says re animals; it reveals how she felt her whole life about HERSELF:

  "...their need is great and there are so few who care for them."

Lizzie is to be pitied, not judged, hated, nor deified.  She was just a misdirected human being trapped in her own personal hell.  She acted out from her own pain & aloneness.  She felt trapped & controlled, so she "stole" that control.  In the end, she only found herself trapped in a gilded cage & probably, an overwhelming amount of guilt.

T.

Tina, my fellow architect of the Written Word, its clear to me from yr posts that u can think and write! I look forward to yr book. And i share yr interest in all things Victorian (especially UNDERthings Victorian LOL!!!!!!!!!). Ah, turn-of-the-century Paris. Where else would I rather be? Too bad Time has to change everything, has to make things go old and disappear.

Allow me to respectfully disagree with something u said, about Manson. I dont think he was in any way a "brilliant mind." Cunningly twisted? Yes. Knew how to brainwash and control people? Yup. But he had no special creative or intellectual gifts. He was just one really messed-up individual. The Charles Mansons and David Koreshes of the world are not "brilliant", certainly not near the caliber of a Marquis de Sade or Aliester Crowley. The evil ideas of Sade and Crowley are much more sinister becuase these two men were very gifted, but they used their gifts for evil's sake.

Alas, as a good friend of mine used to say, "Time waits for no one".

Yes, I can think, write & even chew gum at the same time

Everyone's entitled to their opinion.  I believe Manson was brilliant in his evil simplicity; he got everything perfectly backward!  I agree he wasn't particularly talented...unless you count his talent for manipulating others.