1. "The Borden Home"
Posted by joe on Oct-2nd-02 at 1:59 PM

I just read a post about the "groan" being heard, "street noise", "workmen working", etc.  I thought about that and concluded that when wife & I took the tour in August, I didn't hear any noise coming in from the outside even though the bus station is directly across the street.  I think the house was pretty "soundproof" with insulation, siding, etc.

Anybody else find this true or was I just so enmeshed in what I was discovering inside the house that I "tuned out" that outside noise?

My point is that if someone was outside, windows closed, back door probably open, someone concentrating on finding sinkers in the loft or eating pears, would they be able to hear? 

Could be that the noise of "The Sixties/Seventies/Eighties" sounds have deafened us somewhat, however. (Apologies to all ex- and wannabe-flower children)

Any house built before the mid 1950s had wet-wall construction (plaster over lathing). Dry-wall is cheaper, but is not that soundproof. If Lizzie heard something while she was in the back yard, I think it was the spring on top of the screen door.
You have to be old enough to experience and know this.

I agree, Rays.  I am old enough (ugh! born in '38), and our present home is lathe & plaster.  Can't hear a whole lot from the street.  Or what's going on inside when we're outside.  Thanks for reminding me about the spring on the screen door.  Person in the backyard surely would have heard that along with the "groan" of the door shutting, assuming that neither had been oiled.

I live in a small c. 1986 one-story house & the walls are thin
drywall & are hollow. You cant hardly hear from room to room
unless you are listening thru the door. It is possible to fall &
not be heard in the next room (not really an experiment, more like
an accident). I think it is entirely possible someone could be
killed in the next room & you would never hear it.

I grew up in an old house, lath and plaster and with that wonderful spring on our back screen door, it always screeched more than groaned.  But, I recall that sound traveled in a big way in our house, thumps and bumps that happened upstairs would travel down and our mom always knew when we were up to no good. 

I'm so funny!
I'm so used to having to *EDIT*, that I clicked on EDIT on Joe's post...like yea I'm going to try & change his post!  I got some message that said Who Do You Think You Are?  (Kidding)

Anyway, my only comment is that Lizzie lived there 20 years...you'd think she could distinguish a "groan" from the sound of the screen door?

Come on, you guys think so, doancha?

I should think so.  If Lizzie meant it to sound as if she heard the screen door "groan", why didn't she be more specific? 

Lizzie said she heard a groan from inside the house.  I agree, Kat.  She should have been able to distinguish a person groan from a screendoor.  So then, how come Bridget  didn't hear it.  Her room was just about above the back door.  Mmmmmm.  Very strange.  Guess I'm inclined to believe Lizzie fibbed about the groan.  I desperately want to believe in her innocence, but I really, really have my doubts.

As I believe Lizzie to be guilty or, at least, guiltily involved, I think she either fibbed about the groan, or heard that groan during the commission of Andrew's murder, and used it in - what was it? - alibi #1, #2, or #3?

I've slept in the Borden guest room, and I'll say, even with the door closed, I could hear conversation from the kitchen and the TV from the parlor - in fact, I went down and asked the night attendant to turn the set down a bit!  

If you are in the cellar, you should be able to hear more than in an adjoining room, as I remember it. Maybe sound will bounce around thru the ceiling into the attic?

I believe that Lizzie was in the back yard the whole time (see D Kent's time schedule by stopwatch). When she saw the visitor leave, she went in. But having to deny the presence and witnessing of this, she made up "heard a groan" to explain WHY she went back in at that time.

She heard a groan....
modified to
She heard a scraping noise...

I think since Lizzie's first and second instinct was to tell about a *sound* she heard....then I believe she heard a sound.
What it was, or what it means, is up for speculation.

In the Victoria Lincoln book she portrays Lizzie as being
almost backwards. Usually they just tell of her being ruthless &
hard to get along with. That book was so hateful it seems
like it was written by a snotty schoolgirl. Has there ever
been any real evidence that she was slow? Lizzie I mean, not
Ms Lincoln.

Well, what I've read and heard on TV shows is that Lizzie was known to be "queer" or odd, but, never slow.  She seemed to have done well enough for herself in school, even though she left early.