1. "Lizzie & The "Boy At School""
Posted by Kat on Sep-15th-02 at 2:47 AM

Radin, Edward
Lizzie Borden, The Untold Story, 1961

Pg. 266-7, (hard):

"...Superior Court in Taunton. Mrs. Estella Margarido, the head clerk, kindly conducted a long and arduous search through tons of records without success. Before leaving, I chatted with her for a few moments. She was young, had never lived in Fall River, and seemed unlikely to know anything firsthand about Lizzie Borden. I idly remarked that I was trying to find people who had seen and known Lizzie and could tell me things they knew personally.

'Well, I know something about her,' she said unexpectedly. 'When I was a little girl I went to the Hornbine School. It was a one-room schoolhouse at the edge of Swansea. There was a boy attending the school who you might say was feeble-minded. He never learned anything but he sat quietly and it was a way of keeping him out of mischief. Every year on the day school opened, a large black car, with a woman in back and a chauffeur in front, would pull up to the school and the boy would run to the car. The woman always had some presents for him: clothes, some simple toys that could keep him amused, and some pocket money. This went on year after year while I was attending the school. The woman was Lizzie Borden.  The boy lived on a farm not far from her place in Swansea.'

She paused and looked out of a window at the busy, stream of traffic beyond the courthouse square. 'You know,' she said softly, almost as if speaking to herself, 'they say so many terrible things about Lizzie Borden. I saw those gifts and I realized how much care and thought went into selecting them to make certain they would be appropriate for a boy like that. I have never believed she could be as bad as they say.' "

--I do not remember this, though it is the last page of text, in Radin.  Does anyone know anything about this or heard it elsewhere?  Who could this boy be, if he *be* ?
When Radin says the lady was young, she would have to have been at least 44 or so to have known Lizzie, in say, 1925, at a school age of 8 or so...


(Message last edited Sep-15th-02  3:28 AM.)

That's the only such account I've ever read.  However, we do have the woman's name, don't we?  Her age, etc. could probably be found out.  She may even be living.  I've wondered why Lizzie would go to the school to deliver these things.  Was this a boarding school?  If the child lived at home with his parents or other family, it would have made better sense for the things to be delivered there.  For that reason, I wonder about the truth of the story.  (Thank Heaven this child would be much too young to be the infamous "Billy Borden"!)

This is the first time I've ever heard this also.  I wonder if the boy was a nephew or the son of a friend?  Why would Lizzie take such a personal interest in a neighbor's son?  It would be great to find out more on this if there is any way to, whether its true and why if it is. 

I wonder if Andy didn't have any more "mistakes" hanging around?
Could it have been a distant relative? More believable that way.

Note that Radin mentions nothing about Bridget's children. But V Lincoln says there were. Was Radin using 1950s reticence to "protect the innocent"? Has anyone found definite proof? And how many Sullivans were there in Butte area? I understand the owner was Irish, and preferred to hire those who may not be hirable then (before the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which probably benefitted a lot of white ethnics.)

I remember a co-worker who bought a home in 1965 whose restrictive deed limited the buyers to white anglo-saxon protestants.

Radin's interviewed many for his book, and came up with his own solution. He did show that Lizzie was not some sort of witch.
When I get a chance to re-read it, I will look to see if he was playing devil's advocate in naming Bridget as the killer (immigrant servant assumed guilty, as w/ Berth Manchester).

It sounded to me like:
a) This boy might be a relative
b) Why would Lizzie show up in a Limo on the first day of school and make a big production in front of the other children by giving him gifts in front of them?  That's a bit callous, if kind.  Sounds more like a *show* than a definete act of charity which could easily have remained unknown.
c) As Edisto said...if it really happened...

"If it really happened" is the critical opinion. Do you mean that Radin lied (I don't think so)? Or that somebody remembered something that put their name in a published book (self-serving statement)?
Given the (rare?) kindnesses of Lizzie to her help, it is probably true. But has it anything to do with the main topic?

The main topic is "the boy at school".
Finding out about all the facets of Lizzie may help us reach an understanding of her nature.
*If it really happened*--I don't consider an opinion.  I consider it a *suspension of an opinion*...as in no corroboration= put it on the side-burner until if/when more is discovered on this subject.  It was opened so that if someone could verify this as happening, other than this one account, we could then move forward.
Someone yet may still come to contribute more to the story.
Also, hearing Forum members remarks on the *incident* is also valuable...

(Message last edited Sep-16th-02  6:22 PM.)

I am ready to believe "it really happened" because Lizzie was known to be charitable with relatives and servants. It wasn't easy to get good help in those days. Bridget may have been paid off so she wouldn't gossip on her new job. Tattletaling can be dangerous; who would trust them?

The real question is: was he a relative, or someone suggested to Lizzie? We know Lizzie helped out at the hospital; charity work is still alive.

Is there ANY other documentary proof for this story? Would it be in character for Lizzie?

(Message last edited Sep-16th-02  7:07 PM.)