1. "Emma's interview"
Posted by Tigrelillie on Nov-24th-02 at 11:53 AM

I am a senior at the univ. of Central Florida.   i am writting my senior paper on Lizzie Borden and well I have run into a snag.  Can anyone tell me when I can find the interview between Emma Borden and Edwin McGuire.  Thanks

I don't think I have ever seen the entire alleged interview all in one piece.  It is cited by most authors but in an abbreviated context.  This is from Edward Radin's "Lizzie Borden, The Untold Story", paperback edition, page 229:

"Twenty years after the murders, an enterprising Boston reporter managed to obtain an interview with Emma. "The happenings in the French Street house that caused me to leave I must refuse to talk about." Emma said. "I did not go until conditions became absolutely unbearable." But while Emma no longer spoke to Lizzie and was completely estranged from her, she warmly defended her sister against the murder charge. "Often it has occurred to me how strange is the fact that no one save Lizzie was ever brought to trial . . . as for her being guilty I say, 'No' and decidedly, 'No.' Here is the strongest thing that has impressed me of Lizzie's innocence. The authorities never found the ax or the implement or whatever it was that figured in the killing. If Lizzie had done that deed, she could never have hidden the instrument of death so the police could never find it." In the same interview Emma stated, "Time and again she has avowed her innocence to me and I believe her."

Spiering, in his book, "Lizzie" (pages 213 - 215) goes into more detail:

"What follows is an incredible interview. As the reporter commented, Emma's statement "is the first declaration to the outside world that either sister has made regarding that most notable murder mystery---a butchery on which the faintest light is yet to be shed."

.... The parlor in which the Post representative interviewed Miss Borden seemed consecrated to the memory of the Rev. Mr. Buck, who was one of the most beloved clergymen in Fall River....

Within this demure sanctuary Emma admitted to Maguire that the Reverend Buck was "my best friend in the world." It was he "who advised me when matters reached such a pass that I could not stay longer in the same house with Lizzie."

Why had she parted from her sister? Emma refused to divulge the details. However, she commented, "I did not go until conditions became absolutely unbearable.... I consulted Reverend Buck . . . after listening to my story he said it was imperative that I should make my home elsewhere.... Under the agreement we entered into, Lizzie is to occupy the house as long as she lives, and is to pay me rent for the use of my half." She added:

"I do not expect ever to set foot on the place while she lives."

When Maguire asked her about the stories involving Lizzie with Nance O'Neil, Emma had a ready answer: "Nance O'Neil has for years been a close friend of Lizzie, and she holds that relation to this very day."*

With that, Emma decided to set the record straight regarding the inheritance: "Someone, who knows more about the Borden estate than I and my sister do, has declared that our combined wealth would go over the million mark. Now here is the truth in respect to that. If all the property that we owned jointly should, through our lawyers, be turned into cash, the total amount of our worldly possessions would not go beyond one-quarter of a million dollars. That is a large amount of money, but is certainly less than a million."

At this point it would seem incongruous that Emma, after twenty-one years, could be so open in her remarks to a member of the press: "The day the crime took place I was at Fairhaven on a visit to friends, I hurried home in response to a telegram, and one of the first persons I met was Lizzie. She was very much affected. Later, when veiled accusations began to be made, she came to me and said, 'Emma, it is awful for them to say that I killed poor father and our stepmother. You know that I would not dream of such an awful thing, Emma.'  Later, after her arrest and during her trial, Lizzie many times reiterated her protest of innocence to me. And after her acquittal she declared her guiltlessness during conversations that we had at the French Street mansion. Here is the strongest thing that has convinced me of Lizzie's innocence. The authorities never found the axe or whatever implement it was that figured in the killing. Lizzie, if she had done that deed, could never have hidden the instrument of death so that the police could not find it. Why, there was no hiding place in the old house that would serve for effectual concealment. Neither did she have the time."

....Perhaps people wondered why I stood so staunchly by Lizzie during the trial. I'll tell them why. Aside from my feeling as a sister, it was because I constantly had in mind our dear mother. She died when Lizzie was only three years of age, while I had reached twelve years. When my darling mother was on her deathbed she summoned me, and exacted a promise that I would always watch over 'baby Lizzie.' From childhood to womanhood and up to the time the murder occurred, I tried to safeguard Lizzie ...."

Again, she mentioned the promise she had made to her mother, that she would care for Lizzie as if she were her own child: "I did my duty at the time of the trial and I am still going to do it in defending my sister even though circumstances have separated us. The vision of my dear mother always is bright in my mind. I want to feel that when Mother and I meet in the hereafter, she will tell me that I was faithful to her trust and that I looked after 'baby Lizzie' to the best of my ability."

Unexpectedly the impact of her own words seemed to drastically affect her. As Edwin Maguire watched, Emma's voice became a low moan. And then a howl. Convulsively she began to sob. Clutching the arm of the low rocking chair she abruptly stood up. She began pacing to and fro, attempting to control herself by pressing a black-bordered handkerchief against her lips.

Maguire noted that, "For several minutes the paroxysm of grief continued. Then the little figure straightened slowly to dignified posture, the remaining traces of tears were removed by soft dabs of the handkerchief, and Miss Borden became quite herself once more."

Quietly, she went on. "I intend to defend Lizzie against the harsh public so that Mother will say I have been Faithful to my trust. ... Every Memorial Day I carry flowers to Father's grave. And Lizzie does not forget him. But she generally sends her tribute by a florist."

Suddenly Emma asked that he leave. The interview was over.

As she led him to the door, Maguire commented that Emma "murmured, as if to herself:  'Though we must live as strangers ... I am still the little mother....'"

A rather dramatic summary by Spiering. I emphasize the words "alleged interview".  I'll leave it to others to decide whether it ever took place but personally I doubt it. 

Thanks Harry That helps a lot.

LIZZIE BORDEN:  A Case Book of Family and Crime in the 1890's.
Joyce Williams, J. Eric Smithburn
M. Jeanne Peterson, editors
!980, T.I.S.Publications Div., Bloomington, Indiana.
Pages 248-254.
Is not quite in it's entirety, from the original Boston Sunday Post, April 13, 1913, "GUILTY -- NO!  NO!", by Edwin J. Maguire.