Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden
Topic Name: Knock Knock

1. "Knock Knock"
Posted by augusta on Jul-11th-02 at 10:05 PM

At the trial, Emma was asked who attended to locking the front door at night?
She replied, "The one that was retiring last."...
"Whichever one was last to bed?"
"Yes, sir."

......

"And who usually unlocked it in the morning?"
"Usually my sister."

Hm.  From prior testimony of Bridget, I think, we learn that Andrew always answered the front door if he were home in the daytime.  Then the chain of command went down to Abby, and then I think Bridget. 

But from Emma's testimony, it looks like when Lizzie came in Wednesday nite (August 3) after 9 pm however she locked it was it for the night.  And the trouble Andrew had getting in around 10:30 the next morning was possibly due to Lizzie's lack of unlocking the door successfully.  It sounds like the Borden's front door was unlocked each morning by Lizzie.  But to what degree?  Does that mean two of the three locks were undone?  Andrew expected to get in Thursday morning.  And there was a fuss by Bridget - was she fussing over that spring lock?  She never specifies, does she, which lock gave her cause to swear?  However the door was normally unlocked, I think that's how Andrew expected to find it when he tried to get in.  Why was Lizzie the one who usually unlocked the front door in the morning?  I can't believe it was all the way locked - I'd bet one lock was left on, easy enough for Andrew to come in by himself with a key perhaps, but an intruder could not walk in.


2. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by Susan on Jul-11th-02 at 11:06 PM
In response to Message #1.

Well, it seems that Lizzie was lax with her lock duty that morning!  Perhaps the reason was that she needed to know exactly when Andrew came home?  Or, maybe she did unlock it, but, locked it again as she went upstairs to kill Abby.  Or, after she let in a particular guest that was there to see Mrs. Borden. 


3. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by augusta on Jul-12th-02 at 3:48 AM
In response to Message #2.

I'm surprised Lizzie "usually" unlocked the front door, considering she was a late riser.  Or was she?  At least the morning of the murders she was.

But since they seemed to use the side door to leave, the only activity in the early morning hours would be from the side door (deliveries, too).  Business people for Andrew usually came in the afternoon.

I always thought Lizzie was keeping anyone from coming in at the wrong moment by the front door lock business.  And/or as you say let someone in.


4. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by Susan on Jul-13th-02 at 1:58 PM
In response to Message #3.

Did the elder Bordens really have any reason to deal with the front door?  They didn't seem to get alot of guests or neighbors stopping by.  And, from what I can tell, there was no mail delivery to the Borden house.  Whether Andrew's choice or just not available I can't say.  So, no mailman coming to knock on the door or ring the bell and all other deliveries made at the side kitchen door.

So, yeah, it kind of does make sense that Lizzie, or whoever got to it first, would unlock the front door in the morning. 


5. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by diana on Jul-13th-02 at 8:14 PM
In response to Message #4.

Not that this resolves anything -- because there were multiple locks involved, as we know.  But, on the topic, here's Albert E. Chase's information on the door. (Witness Statements p. 42)

"Fall River, August 17, 1892.  During the past thirteen days I have been on duty at the Borden house at the front door.  During all this time the front door locked every time it was closed.  No one has been ever admitted without first ringing the bell.  Several times the people who were inside, have stepped out to speak to me, and the door would close, and lock them out, and they would have to ring to get in.  I have tried the door a great many times, and always found it locked.  Have seen a great many other people try to get in before ringing the bell, but the door was always locked.  I have never seen anyone get in without being let in by someone from the inside."


6. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by augusta on Jul-13th-02 at 9:44 PM
In response to Message #5.

What a good post, Diana.  Thanks. 

Someone testified that they did experiments with the spring lock.  I want to say Mrs. Holmes.  And sometimes it'd lock and sometimes it wouldn't.  Grrr... I just read this the other day.  Did Kat post it? 

I don't think the Bordens got all that much traffic to their front door, either, Susan.  Sometimes people who needed to talk to or see Andrew on business would come to the door.  Remember, they didn't have a telephone. 


7. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by Kat on Jul-13th-02 at 11:51 PM
In response to Message #6.

Edisto named Jerome Borden first, as to the spring lock failure of the front door.
Then we have Mrs. Holmes (who also had MORSE LIE DOWN DEAD IN THE GUEST ROOM so she could see what she could see!!!).
Then Emma testified the spring didn't ALWAYS catch.
And Augusta, I think you named Morse as another one of the "faulty lock" brigade.
There was another Borden...Lizzie Borden.
That's 3 Bordens, a Morse and a Holmes...VS. one cop?
We need more cops!


8. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by Susan on Jul-14th-02 at 2:25 PM
In response to Message #7.

Albert Chase's statement is odd in that he says when the door closed behind anyone who came out, the spring latch caught.  He doesn't seem to be saying that it slammed behind them, just shut.  Was there some sort of automatic door closer on the front door, like a big spring or something?  From looking at this picture I can't see anything, I wonder if the door was not level?


9. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by augusta on Jul-14th-02 at 7:46 PM
In response to Message #8.

That's true, Susan.  He didn't say it slammed.  Maybe it wasn't level, what with there being a slope to Second Street. 

So Mrs. Holmes was (at least one of) the first to do the "Where's Abby?" test at the murder house? 

I guess it's one of those things where it's one person's word against another.  When someone says 'sometimes it didn't catch' how can anyone disprove it?


10. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by bobcook848 on Jul-15th-02 at 9:37 PM
In response to Message #9.

Foot Note to Item #8 re: the photo of the front hall entry at No. 92:

Pay close attention to the closet door to the left of the front entry door...you will note that the door is open but a crack. 

This "famous" photo was taken by a young legal assistant to Mr. Andrew J. Jennings(1849-1923), Lizzie's attorney, one Arthur Sherman Phillips (1865-1941).

The photo is actually an "experiment" conducted by Mr. Jennings who is hidding inside the closet whilst Mr. Phillips snaps the photo.  Mr. Phillips did not participate in the actual trial but did much of the "leg work" for the defense team.

The purpose?...To exhibit to the public (albeit many years post facto) that indeed a "normal" sized man could in fact have hid himself away in that closet without being seen.

The photo was, according to Mr. Phillips own words in his own publication, "The Borden Murder Mystery: In Defense of Lizzie Borden" orginally published in 1937.

Now this is my story and you know the rest...

BC

(Message last edited Jul-15th-02  9:40 PM.)


11. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by Kat on Jul-16th-02 at 2:44 AM
In response to Message #10.

Yes, it's very a very odd feeling to know Jennings is hidden in this picture.

Kieran did an experiment with a guy in the closet, too.
In trial, 107-8, he states that the door being ajar slightly his man could not be seen by him at 10 feet away.
BUT, when viewed by him from near the parlour door, once the man in the closet moved he was noticed.

It's also interesting to note what Kieran said was kept in that closet:  Leaves for extending the table (in a box), and a carpet sweeper.

As you pointed out, the photo posted was a "Phillips" photo, and not evidence.

(Message last edited Jul-16th-02  2:46 AM.)


12. "Re: Knock Knock"
Posted by bobcook848 on Jul-17th-02 at 9:01 PM
In response to Message #11.

We should maybe rename this thread..."Hide and Seek"...maybe, do you think?

BC



 

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