Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden
Topic Name: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie

1. "Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by Stefani on Sep-8th-02 at 5:12 PM

Our own Kashesan is going to give a lecture on Lizzie in November at the Brighton Allston Historical Society in Mass., outside Boston.

I hope anyone nearby will attend and lend her your support and hear an interesting and informative talk!! Way to go Kash!!!

Here are the details of the event.

http://www.bahistory.org/bahevnt.html


2. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by Kat on Sep-9th-02 at 3:34 PM
In response to Message #1.

Knock their socks off, Kash!


3. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by Susan on Sep-9th-02 at 11:30 PM
In response to Message #2.

I think we need a round of those neandrathal hooting sounds that guys make a sporting events, whoop, whoop, whoop!  Go, Kash, knock 'em dead!  Wish I could see it live! 


4. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by Stefani on Sep-9th-02 at 11:36 PM
In response to Message #1.

Hey Kash, now is your chance to meet F. Lee. Invite him to your lecture. Nothing like having famous people in the audience to really add stress to your life!

Seriously, you should. I bet he would show up too!


5. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kashesan on Sep-10th-02 at 11:29 AM
In response to Message #4.

Are you serious? F Lee in the audience? (hands wringing, sweating, looking about for cheap domestic beer...)
Thank you though, I will do my humble best! (wish you could be there for support-and for domestic beer afterwards...)


6. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by Kat on Sep-10th-02 at 8:23 PM
In response to Message #5.

Can this be video-taped?
Or is that asking too much?
Or is it ONLY asking too much if you ask F.Lee to hold the camera?


7. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kashesan on Sep-11th-02 at 6:45 AM
In response to Message #6.

I'll try, Kat. Right now I'm up to my eyebrows with getting my powerpoint graphics squared away, and building my narrative around them. I don't own a camcorder; however I'm hoping that if this goes well, to offer it at other local libraries and by then I'll be able to tape it. (and have it polished up a little too)
Cheers!
Nance

(Message last edited Sep-11th-02  6:46 AM.)


8. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by Stefani on Sep-11th-02 at 9:33 AM
In response to Message #7.

If somebody does tape it for you, try to get them to use a digital video camera and that way you or me or we can post part of it on the website or whatever. If you use a plain old video camera it is harder, and the transfer to digital can be done, but not with the same quality of image.

That is if you get it taped. If not, you have to report back with DETAILS!!


9. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by harry on Sep-11th-02 at 11:21 AM
In response to Message #1.

I'll wish you luck with some cheap domestic beer!  Knock 'em dead!



10. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kashesan on Sep-11th-02 at 2:18 PM
In response to Message #9.

God bless you...(domestic beer for all!) Will do my best to get it taped properly at some point Stef.


11. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by Edisto on Sep-11th-02 at 6:01 PM
In response to Message #10.

Wow!  This sounds exciting!  Kash, please remind us all when the time gets near, and be sure to let us know afterward about the audience reaction.  I have an idea for something similar (but different) for our local Victorian Society chapter.


12. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kashesan on Sep-12th-02 at 6:50 AM
In response to Message #1.

Absolutely Edisto-I'm actually attending 'Toastmasters' meetings to help with my jitters! By the by-any suggestions on where I can find a photograph of a Victorian 'wrapper' (mabe pink and white?) V. Lincoln describes a 'wrapper' as a two piece ensemble, but informal. I love the pictures of the blue velvet ball gown Kat, by the way. Can definatly picture Lizzie in something like that. But a 'wrapper' ? Sounds like a plain brown potato sack...


13. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 12:31 PM
In response to Message #12.

This site sells reproduction Victorian wrappers,
http://www.holleygene.com/wrapper.htm.
Or if you have time look thru the Victorian section on http://www.antiquedress.com/gallery.htm, they have a very
beautiful floral silk 'dressing gown', I'm thinking it is
another name for a wrapper. They might have more I haven't
had a chance to look thru them all.


14. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 12:34 PM
In response to Message #13.

The silk floral dressing gown is from c. 1909 & is item #923
and it costs only $965.


15. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kashesan on Sep-12th-02 at 12:35 PM
In response to Message #13.

Bless you Kim! Most helpful and interesting


16. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 5:35 PM
In response to Message #15.

I found another one! The most Lizzie-ish is c. 1890-1900 & is
blue & white striped cotton. They have several more, the link is:
http://www.victoriana.com/antique-marketplace/fashions.htm

#C2213. STRIPE COTTON WRAPPER/ DRESS (C.1890-1900) 
A pretty cotton day-dress or wrapper made with a deep
blue and white stripe heavy cotton. Small collar and full
sleeves with pointed caps. The one piece front
construction (no waistband) features a back belt to tie
in front in order to tighten or loosen the waist. The
inner bodice of the dress is white cotton that buttons
down the center. One side pocket. There is a 9 inch wide
self-fabric ruffle along the hemline. Inside label reads:
"BEST MAKE, La Mode". $245.00

(Message last edited Sep-12th-02  5:39 PM.)


17. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 5:44 PM
In response to Message #16.

I tried to post a picture with that last one but it was
lost somewhere. So I'm trying again.


18. "Re: Lecture/Slide Show on Lizzie"
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 5:45 PM
In response to Message #17.

Oh, brother.


19. "Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by Kat on Sep-12th-02 at 7:05 PM
In response to Message #18.


20. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by Kat on Sep-12th-02 at 7:09 PM
In response to Message #19.

A Detail From Kim's Dress (Wrapper)


21. ""Vintage Clothing Selection"-Fake-Pink"
Posted by Kat on Sep-12th-02 at 7:15 PM
In response to Message #20.

I went to a Vintage site and found what they called a "Wrapper" from the 1880-1890 period.

Mine was very fitted and NOT pink, but Bronze.  (I think Lizzie would have looked good in bronze)

Anyway, to MAKE mine PINK, I colored it.
(I'm just learning coloring)

Here is what I've been doing for the last hour.
It looks ridiculous....

Please, EDISTO, comment...I can take it, truly!

(Message last edited Sep-12th-02  7:19 PM.)


22. "Re: "Vintage Clothing Selection"-Fake-Pink"
Posted by Edisto on Sep-12th-02 at 7:53 PM
In response to Message #21.

Goodness!  It comes out fuchsia on my screen!  (No, folks, that isn't a dirty word.)  It certainly looks dressy.  It also looks as if it has the "belled" sleeves that came in during the mid 1890s.  I think that's what Emma was talking about when she said Lizzie's Bedford cord dress had "full sleeves, but not so full as they are wearing them now."  (not a direct quote)  I do think Lizzie's Bedford cord (which wasn't actually a wrapper, was it?) was made by a rather dressy pattern.  The pink wrapper with the bright-red ribbon tie also sounds the same way, so this may not be a bad approximation.  I agree that Lizzie would have looked good in bronze -- the same kind they used to use for baby shoes!  I understand the secret to good coloring is to stay within the lines.  I never could master that!


23. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 9:19 PM
In response to Message #19.

Thanks Kat! I don't know what was happening with the
attachments, it would get all the way to the end & then post
my message & then there would be nothing with it. Is anyone
else having a problem? Is it my wonky computer or is Arborwood
having a problem?


24. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by Kat on Sep-12th-02 at 11:21 PM
In response to Message #23.

If you were posting as "Attachment" that file was probably too big.
It should be just around 75K.
  When I went to capture that picture, there was SO much bytes it took 4 whole minutes to load.  I suppose it was because of all the photos's that were derived from the main one, all attached to that file.
I'll tell you what I did, but you'll have to translate it into PC "speak."
I waited for the loading, as I said.  Then FINALLY, clicked on that first image and "Opened to new window" where just that first photo was isolated.  Then I captured the address at the top, and copied and pasted it here.
If you captured that photo onto disc, or desktop, and then tried to add it here as "Attachment", it may have been too big.  You may check the file size in your computer...
"Posting a photo", and "adding attachment", are 2 different processes, so I may be misunderstanding your problem.
----------
I note these two dresses are really different.
Kim's is more like a "shirtwaist dress" whereas mine is more like a traditional dress.  The first looks really comfortable.

The questions asked in testimony, by a MAN, called that blue dress  a "wrapper", erroneously.  You have a GREAT memory, Edisto!

Trial, Emma questioned by Jennings, pg.1542:
Q.  Do you know whether she had this blue wrapper on under that that morning?
A.  I know that she had not.
---------------
Trial, Robinson closing, pg.1735:
Of course she would completely change her clothing. There was that waterproof exposed, and nothing found missing there. She had nothing over her, and you assume that, and then you have to assume that the wrapper was put out of the way and destroyed. To get out of one alternative you get into another. 


(Message last edited Sep-12th-02  11:49 PM.)


25. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 11:29 PM
In response to Message #24.

That is what I was doing---saving the pic & then attaching it.
They were taking a long time to download on the Victoriana site.
How do you just add the picture to the post? I've tried doing it
with the <img src="http://www.blahblahblah.com/picturename.jpg">;
and it hasn't worked. 

(Message last edited Sep-12th-02  11:31 PM.)


26. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 11:34 PM
In response to Message #25.

Oh goodness! I just put what I thought was a non-real-website name
as an example (I used 'picturesource') and it created a link & I
clicked on it & it was dirty! So I changed it to the blahblahblah,
I haven't checked it yet, I'm just warning everyone.

My follow-up: The blahblahblah link goes nowhere, thankfully.

(Message last edited Sep-12th-02  11:36 PM.)


27. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-12th-02 at 11:48 PM
In response to Message #24.

Back to the dresses, I always thought that a Victorian 'wrapper'
was like the house dresses my grandma always wore, (but she wore
those sleeveless shift dresses) it is a real
'dress' so you were not just wearing your robe or nightdress all day,
you needed a dress but not one of your good ones. I always pictured
a wrapper as probably very comfortable & would button up the front.
It would be easy to change should you need to go somewhere but still
modest should someone pay an unannounced visit.

(Message last edited Sep-12th-02  11:49 PM.)


28. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by Susan on Sep-13th-02 at 3:28 AM
In response to Message #27.

My understanding of a Victorian wrapper is a dress that is made to be loose fitting and made to be worn without a corset.  But, from Emma's trial testimony, she says that these 2 dresses or wrappers, as well as Lizzie's other garments, are made snug.  I guess it would be possible to wear a snug fitting garment without a corset, but, to me, it sounds as if these 2 housedresses were made to be worn with one.  Edisto, your expertise, please? 


29. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kashesan on Sep-13th-02 at 6:51 AM
In response to Message #28.

Wow, thanks for all the great links. Loved the various wrappers (not to be confused with rappers-don't anyone to think Lizzie went up to her room and put on Snoop Dogg)


30. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-13th-02 at 7:47 AM
In response to Message #29.

Puttin' on the Dogg?


31. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kashesan on Sep-13th-02 at 8:25 AM
In response to Message #30.

Now that would be a funny couple: Lizzie Borden and Snoop Dogg. Think he'd have escorted her to the ball?  ("Yo Lizz, what up? Lookin nice Girl! Mmmmm MMMM!!")

(Message last edited Sep-13th-02  8:25 AM.)


32. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by Susan on Sep-13th-02 at 11:38 AM
In response to Message #31.

Who let the Doggs out, woof, woof, woof! 


33. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by Edisto on Sep-13th-02 at 12:18 PM
In response to Message #28.

I can't really say I'm an expert on 1890s underwear.  (Or, as some eBay sellers spell it: "underware.")  I'd agree that a housedress would probably be made to be worn without a corset.  However, there used to be some ladies (my maternal grandmother being one of them) who wore their corsets during all of their waking hours.  She lived until 1954, and every morning she got up and put on that iron-clad undergarment, which required that she wear stockings with it, because it had attached garters.  She was a rather corpulent lady.  I certainly think it would have been possible for Lizzie to have worn a "snug" dress or wrapper without a corset underneath.  Most dresses of that day had linings (as do the garments shown on the Victorian websites) and some even had boning built into them.  Whether Lizie wore a corset around the house probably depended on her preference.


34. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-13th-02 at 12:34 PM
In response to Message #31.

I personally would expect to see her with someone more
dapper, you know, like P. Diddy. They could go to the
Headbangers Ball.



35. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kashesan on Sep-13th-02 at 2:11 PM
In response to Message #34.

They say my Lizz done the forty whacks
But I dont think y'all got half the facks
Cause my girl Lizz, she be kinda sweet
She lives at 92 Second Street
When we walk downtown, everybody stare
But me and Lizz,we just dont care

She dress like a queen, man she really phat
But she dont act like she all that
She dont ever drink, cause she dont like it
And if I scope another honey, she dont play that s**t











(Message last edited Sep-13th-02  2:13 PM.)


36. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-13th-02 at 6:57 PM
In response to Message #35.

 


37. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by Susan on Sep-14th-02 at 12:02 AM
In response to Message #35.

Yo, yo, yo, yo, Kashesan!  What up, G-money? 


38. "Re: Blue & White Wrapper-"VICTORIANA.com""
Posted by kimberly on Sep-14th-02 at 6:17 AM
In response to Message #37.

G-money? I must be getting old, what is G-money?



 

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