1. "Made it to F.R."
Posted by Kashesan on Oct-15th-02 at 8:05 AM

Made my visit on Sunday-damp drizzly day. We parked at a meter near Fourth and Third Streets, figured we could find our way to Second. Up a little hill that veered to the left, and there were the dark brown shutters and light brown house. So incongruous today. As soon as I walked in the front door, all of my preconceived musings about the crimes fell away-I was suddenly ashamed of my writings and presumptions about Lizzie's thoughts and motivations-the house and family were suddenly very real,as I sat there in their Parlour.
Standing in the dining room doorway it would have been easy as pie to knock someone over the head who was on the sofa, while remaining behind the doorframe.
Upstairs was worse-you can traverse the entire second story in about ten paces. The family was literally on top of each other day after day. By the time we left my feeling was not "Why, Lizzie?" (if she's guilty) but "What took you so long?" I wanted to whack a few of my fellow visitors as we left. They were at the gravesite when we got there, milling about, walking on the graves and snickering. I loomed neaby, frowning, until they got nervous and left. Then I placed my yellow buttercups on Lizbeth. Why?
I picked up a few copies of the L.B. Quarterly and was astonished  (Stef, you dear!)to see my name in it. Almost fell off the chair in the Parlour. Great interview Stef- nice picture.
Maplesauce dreary and unkempt. But the Historical Society was closed, so I'll have to go back.
Loved the portraits of Nance-two words: Brick House.
Ciao

Thanks Kash and Joe for the reports.

Isn't it interesting that Joe thought the house was larger and roomier than he had imagined and Kash thought it more cramped.

I think that's what makes these forum discussions so interesting. Each of us has our own ideas of how things looked and how events occurred.  Each new opinion or fact adds to or alters our perceptions. 

Thanks Harry, youre right everybody experiences it uniquely. Although I expected it to be different than what I'd imagined,it was REALLY different, and my own reaction was unexpected- sort of like the feelings that a dream leaves you with, difficult to shake off. I was IN the house she lived in-IN her room-creepy and fascinating at the same time. I felt like I'd met part of her, looking out her bedroom windows and touching the woodwork. As horrible as the crimes were, I found myself unable to completly dissociate from Lizzie. And as sorry as I felt for Andrew and Abby and the injustice of their deaths, it was Lizzie's grave I placed my flowers on. (Go figure...kind of a scary thought)  

(Message last edited Oct-15th-02  8:45 AM.)

Wow!  Thanks, Kashesan!  You frightened a bunch of disrespectful tourists away from the Borden's graves, good for you!  What was the guest room like, did you take a spin in there?  Poor Maplesauce, Lizzie must be turning in her grave that her fine house has gone so bad. 

We went through the guest room too-steps away from Lizzie's. The tour guide asked if anyone wanted to stand where Abby had been killed-we all respectfully declined. But two little kids came forward slowly, and held hands in the spot, obviously frightened. They were very cute. In Emma's room on a dressmakers dummy, is a dress that once belonged to Lizzie and I whispered to the two kids, "Look and see if there's any blood on the dress" They looked of course.
Dress must have been cream colored once, very elegant and tiny! I touched the sleeves and wondered when and where she had worn it.
Maplesauce kind of depressing-there's also a rather gauche statue of a mermaid or something, bared breasts and all. Lizzie would have been appalled (while surreptitiously admiring it?)

You mean this statue Kash?  I was wondering when that was put there.  Thought it might have driven Emma out. 

That sounds like the dress that was in the guest room when we stayed there.  I was really tempted to take it off the dress form and try it on, but I resisted.  Wonder how they know (if indeed they do know) that it belonged to Lizzie.  I had thought she gained considerable flesh during the trial and probably retained it for the rest of her life.  The dress (if it's the same one) looked to be from a later era.  It was quite pretty and much simpler than the things in which she was photographed earlier in life.  Of course, those Victorian fashions tended to make one look like a wedding cake.  The first thing I did after we had carried our luggage up to the room was to lie down in Abby's spot and have my picture taken.  I opted not to lie face down with my rump in the air though.

So cool!  Thanks, Kashesan!  I envision the day that I get to make the trek to Fall River and what my visit to the Borden home will be like.  I think I would have gone forward to stand where Abby died, if anything just to say a prayer for the poor woman.

Oh, to see a dress that Lizzie actually wore!  And to be able to touch it!  So, it sounds like our big, bad Lizzie was a tiny little thing, one of my girlfriends is like 5'6" and she is tiny, just built very compact, which is how I picture our Lizzie.

It would be wonderful to find out when that statue was put there, if indeed it was during Lizzie's time or sometime after.  Thanks, Harry! 

Ooo, we posted at the same time, Edisto.  You are indeed a brave soul, I don't know that I could actually lie on the floor where Abby was found, gives me goosebumps just thinking about it!

(Message last edited Oct-16th-02  11:45 AM.)

Edisto:
When you saw Lizzie's dress, did your practiced eye estimate her possible weight and height when she wore it?

In the pictures of Maplecroft taken around Lizzie's time there, the statue is not there. I didn't get too close a look at it-but it seems very un-Lizzie if I presume.
The dress, might it have come from Maplecroft? I sure as hell couldn't fit into it (supposing I stayed overnight there, got drunk and came back with bright ideas) There would be the unmistakable sound of ripping fabric all over the second floor as I tried to heave my shoulders through that tiny, delicate little thing!

Perhaps there are women who think that the Borden house is quite spacious but I would think less would than most men. Andrew could leave the house and go about his business activities while the women had to stay inside most of the time, and four of them at that together. Some men probably like more space around them but(get ready to pounce this opinion)I would say most of them can get along with much less space around them than women.  I study sheepherders in the west and most of them lived with just tents, not even a wagon, while taking care of their sheep in the summer highlands, and they didn't complain. Andrew probably was oblivious to this need of "his" women as well as that it would be nice for them to have had a bathtub.

There was a dress in 1997 that was on a mannequin in Lizzie's room, when Stef stayed there and she was told it was Liz Montgomery's dress from the movie.  It seemed tiny to her. Now we hear there is "Lizzie's dress"? Could be....(?) Here is a dress in the front hall.  I don't know WHOSE it's supposed to be...

You have to compare the space to their previous house, and what they were used to in their times. In an era of common 2000 ft2 homes, anything smaller would be "tight".

I haven't been in the Borden house so I can't add much about the clothes displayed there. I would wonder why they wouldn't put a small sign on the dress saying whether it really was Lizzie's or from a movie.

Someone was inquiring before about a Paisley scarf (?) or headpiece that they thought part of the Abby Borden murder scene and which the FRHS has on display in their building. I don't know how or if the FRHS has labeled it but if they don't make it clear some people assume it is from the murder scene and not just part of Abby's wearing apparel at other times. 

I haven't seen this Paisley scarf either but when reading the trial testimony the attorneys inquired several times about whether Abby was wearing anything on her head or whether there were hairpins in the white handkerchief found near her and the witnesses said nothing was on her head and no hairpins were in the white handkerchief. No witness mentioned a Paisley headpiece. 

I don't think the dress in this picture is the same one that was in the guest room when I stayed there.  I would describe that dress as "whitewear" -- a summerweight cotton dress (batiste or lawn) with some subtle embroidery in the same color.  While it looked to be a small size, I wouldn't call it "tiny" exactly.  That dress actually looked as if it had a very pale lavender tint.  I thought it was quite feminine and pretty.  There was a discreet sign nearby saying that it had been part of Lizzie's wardrobe, I believe in the 1920s.  I vaguely recall another garment in the foyer, but don't remember what it was.  The main thing I recall in the foyer is a portrait of Lizzie that isn't very well done.  I would hope somebody would present them with a better one.  I'd have preferred a photograph to that. I believe I've heard that the B&B now has the dress that Elizabeth Montgomery wore in the last scenes of "Legend."  It's the same one shown in Harry's picture -- the one for which we're all supposed to provide captions.  (This time I'm keeping track of the deadline!)  That's a spectacular movie costume but of course has no connection to the real Lizzie.

Harry: When was that picture of the Maplecroft statue photographed?

I took a series of pictures of the house and grounds in 1994.  The statuary and the urn were not there at that time.

Your photograph indicates side steps on the back porch. This is a new addition added since 1994. Previously, a very large bush and tree (arbor vitae?) existed in front of the shrubbery that now contains the statue. They are gone.  Evidently, Mr. Dube saw fit to modify the landscape.

(Message last edited Oct-17th-02  4:01 PM.)

Harry: When was that picture of the Maplecroft statue photographed?

I took a series of pictures of the house and grounds in 1994.  The statuary and the urn were not there at that time.

Your photograph indicates side steps on the back porch. This is a new addition since 1994. Previously, a very large bush and tree (arbor vitae?) existed in front of the shrubbery that now contains the statue. They are gone.  Evidently, Mr. Dube saw fit to modify the landscape.

Sorry William, I don't know the age of the picture.  Picked it up some where on the old board I think.

Attached are 3 pictures.  They all show Maplecroft from that same angle. The first does not show the statue.  The second does.  It was from the second that I magnified and cropped the statue picture.  The third shows the area as it looked when Lizzie occupied it.  Note the bird bath where the statue now is.  Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Could someone tell by looking at the car model first in the line of cars parked?  It looks the newest?

Thanks for the cool pics Harry!