1. "What's The Meaning of This?"
Posted by Kat on Nov-4th-02 at 2:03 AM

In the Witness Statements, pg. 12, by Doherty, which are featured in this current issue of the LBQ, I have, as Robert put it:  A Burning Question.  Actually 2 Burning Questions.
These are up for speculation, no page numbers needed, unless you're quoting something as proof.  But I'm inclined to believe these 2 questions are more the kind of thing we should kick around to see if any stuffing falls out.  Probably the majority opinion could very well be the reasonable explanation:

Mrs. Churchill's second interview:
"...We then went up stairs, and Bridget asked me if two would be enough[sheets]. I said I think so, one will cover a person. But we brought down two, and gave them to Dr. Bowen. He covered Mr. Borden, and then went out.

Lizzie requested the Doctor to send a telegram to her sister Emma, but not to tell her the facts, for the lady whom she is staying with, is old and feeble, and may be disturbed.

Lizzie then said I wish somebody would go up stairs and try to find Mrs. Borden."

--Why did Lizzie ask Dr. Bowen not to shock an old lady, who was Not a relative, with the wording of the telegram, when EMMA was to receive the news of her father and step-mother's tragic illnesss(?) or whatever Bowen decided to put?  Why not ask him to be careful not to shock EMMA!?
--And why did Lizzie ask Bowen to leave before the second body was found?  That ensured that these poor ladies saw the dreadful sight...whether on purpose or not?
--Oh shucks, that brings up another question:  Why didn't Bowen search the house before he left at least to ensure these ladies gathered were safe?

Besides shocking the old lady, I was thinking that perhaps it had something to do with the social mores of the day, don't air your dirty laundry in public.  Yeah, the public found out soon enough, but, maybe, guilty or not, Lizzie was embarrassed by having to let family business be put out in the open like that.  Maybe Lizzie was really thinking that she didn't want the people at the telegraph office to know what was going on.

I think that Emma would have wanted "to know the truth" as Lizzie did, she sounds like she was a very practical woman and didn't need things to be sugar-coated for her.  And, could you imagine Emma's shock at getting a telegram saying Father and Abby are sick, come home, and she gets home and finds that they've been hacked to death?  Yikes!!!

Maybe Lizzie wanted Dr. Bowen to leave because she felt he would have seen through her "I think I just heard Abby come in, could someone look for her?" speech?

Yes, I've always kind of wondered about that too, why Dr. Bowen never looked around the house.  I can only guess that he thought that the murderer had done their thing and had taken off already or, he just wasn't thinking all that clearly that day. 

I agree about the social mores of the day.  Remember that Hiram Harrington supposedly said that he hired a horse to go notify his wife because she had been sick and he wanted to tell her himself because of the shame he feared(Jennings hip bath notes). 

And as far as Bowen goes.  He comes off as pretty fragile to me..
I'm not surprised he didn't do the right thing and go looking for a murderer in the house.  After all, according to his Inquest testimony, he says he looked over the bed at Abby and was not sure whether he took her pulse or not but he "satisfied" himself "in some way" that she was not living. 

Then, when the trial comes up -- not only does he remember that he did take Abby's pulse, but that he had to pull her right wrist out from under her body to do so.  By trial time he was really back into his role of the ministering physician and also testified that he knelt by the body, felt Abby's head, and saw the wounds there.

I'm sure he was glad that he was not asked either at the inquest or the trial about about Officer Doherty, who claims Bowen told them Mrs. Borden must have died of fright.

As far as sending him to telegraph Emma -- it seems to have required a horse and buggy ride to get to the office -- and maybe Lizzie felt the ladies weren't up to the task.  She also may have realized that Bowen's rig was still ready as he had just returned from somewhere.  I can understand why she would want her sister notified as soon as possible.

I still don't understand Lizzie sending off Dr. Bowen once she gets him there.
We thought maybe she wanted it to be thought that both Andrew and Abby were killed around the same time, so why put off finding the body.  Why are the ladies chosen to find the body of Abby rather than Bowen?  Is she hoping that the longer he is away the longer it takes to find Abby, the better chance that that body will seem to be as long- dead as Andrew?  The disparity in their obvious outward signs of death would not be so apparent the longer she waited to have the body seen by an Official.  She is buying time, but also trying to establish that Abby's murder was contemporary to Andrew's?  *I think I heard her come in, go look.*  ...and she makes sure the Professional is gone and the neighbor and the maid find Mrs. Borden....

I had no preconceived idea about this, am just connecting the dots right now, as I read your posts.

Maybe?

Well, back to that telegram.  I suppose that it would necessarilly have to be addressed to the householder in Fairhaven, whose place Emma was visiting.  So maybe the telegram was written TO Mr. Delano, or his wife or Mrs. Delano Brownell, his sister, all in their 70's.
If that was a reason tact and delicacy was called for, then I doubt Dr. Bowen would think to leave his notes on what and who to write, in the Telegraph lobby waste basket.  Especially if there was an aspect of secrecy at first.
The secrecy at first does seem to make sence because Lizzie never did send for a policeman.  And it wasn't as if that house had never had to deal with a policeman before.  I think she was buying time.
Buying time HAD to be related to the timing of the finding of Abby's body...I keep coming back to that.
It must have got to a point where she could wait no longer for Abby to be found...and there again is a question as to why.  What was the *deadline*.  Was it that all the bodies HAD to be found before Morse returned?  She does make a point of saying Morse returned AFTER the bodies were found...as if this Was the point, I thought...

The reason Dr. Bowen did not search the house still eludes me.  I remember at one point he is asked about Lizzie's demeanor and whether she seemed faint, and he said he was in charge of two dead bodies and so he figured the alive could take care of themselves!  I thought, this is odd, you'd think his response would be exactly the opposite.  That the dead were dead and that his job would BE to succor and help the Living!

Telling Dr. Bowen not to tell Emma the facts might have been because the telegram no matter who it was addressed to personally was received by the house owner at the address it was sent to, and they didn't want whatever old lady was involved to know of the events.  However, if Emma only got the telegram, if that was the practice, then she could have read it, kept the knowledge to herself, and just told the rest of the household something had come up.

About the two sheets, does this mean that Dr. Bowen put two sheets over Andrew or kept one sheet to the side?  He did not yet know of another body so couldn't have kept one out on that knowledge. I am surprised he covered the body so fast seeing as he was taking it off so many times on his "body tours."

About the search of the house that Bowen didn't make, neither did Allen make a search of the house before he took off back to the station.  He just put Sawyer at the back door and walked around the main floor before he left. Bowen and Allen left shortly after arrival so they were safe enough, and Sawyer just locked the back inside cellar door to protect the space he was involved with. So much for common sense, chivalry and precautions.

Yes, these precautions did work: no other murders.
Note how a lot of people think a locked door will protect them!!! As if it can't be kicked in, etc. The burglary that I know about occurred when they came in through a window. Are your basement windows easily opened? Alarmed? Maybe just a SENSE of security?

Are you all assigning the same weight to ALL testimony? Doesn't it change slightly in the retelling? Remembered details, etc? Isn't the testimony closest to the crime likely to be the most accurate, since there is no interaction with other testimony or facts?

If the dictated note was sent in a telegram, the original paper would be brought back to the house by Dr. Bowen. No mystery there?
Unless there was more than meets the eye. AR Brown says the main purpose of Dr Bowen's hasty trip was to recall Uncle John. That sounds believable to me. (Yes, they later agreed that Uncle John was to return for dinner, etc.)

[Lizzie would certainly send for Emma!]

(Message last edited Nov-6th-02  4:17 PM.)

Sorry to jump over you Ray, but I was out hunting tonight and found what happened to the other sheet.
That was a good question.
Mrs. Churchill says in her Inquest testimony, pg. 129, that she put the extra sheet on the dining room table.

Nowadays Bowen would be in deep you-know-what for covering the body ....(and etc. as to what else he did...)

Also, I noticed Bowen later saying that he had satisfied himself that the officers were informed before he left the house.  I think that was his idea of a decent explanation as to why he left so soon without checking for murderers or Abby.  He comes up with this later...

I meant to ask you Ray, if you saw the map and whether you thought that Dr. Bowen had time to go home, see the train schedule, probably talk to his wife...then go send a telegram... then stop at his friends drug store to tell them the news (which could be easily checked) and still make it to Weybosset street to see, in person, Mrs. Emery?  And hightail it back to the Borden's in the time he says he was gone?

Excellent detection, Kat. Alice Russell comes through again with a spot of information about the extra sheet. I hope I remember this. Cheers.

Aha!  Freudian slip.  We now know you are concentrating on Alice!
Actually, it was that fine example of nosey neighbor (bless her!) Mrs. Churchill.
BTW:  While you weren't around we discovered a new feature on this Forum, where if you scroll down to the bottom after you've clicked on REPLY...way down under that white box there is the post you clicked on to respond to...it can be re-viewed while answering.  We didn't have this feature until lately and it was a big surprise and very useful.

I've always found that oddly prophetic, Mrs. Churchill's behaviour, when asked by Dr. Bowen for a sheet, Bridget and Mrs. Churchill bring back two!  In the Witness Statements, Addie even says that Bridget asked her if 2 would be enough and Addie replies that one will cover a person, so, why did they bring two?  Very strange! I'm not saying that Mrs. Churchill was the guilty party or knew anything, just oddly psychic that day. 

Yes, Alice must have been on my mind. I wasn't paying minute attention to what you posted was I. But that makes more evidence for my case regarding Alice's selective memory that it was Mrs. Churchill that remembered what happened to the extra sheet.  It makes more sense anyway, it was Mrs. C. who went up to get it with Bridget.

I did find out a while ago about that neat repeat of the post a person is replying to below this blank box for our our reply, my mind was just thinking Alice when I read Mrs. Churchill.

I don't know about the two sheet deal. Maybe Dr. Bowen just told the women to get something to cover the body with and they interpreted it to mean a sheet so when they got upstairs they made their own determination.  It must have been something like that. When they brought down a sheet then from then on people referred to getting a sheet from upstairs. This might be something like the "dying of fright" situation.  Words got repeated and changed that day and later are remembered differently than what was said.  I don't see Dr. Bowen saying go upstairs and get "one sheet", that doesn't sound normal, but I can see him saying get "a sheet."

I think, at that point, that Bridget would have brought down every sheet in the house if it meant she didn't have to go up the back stairs again!
Funny she went up the front stairs later and even entered the room where Abby's body lay, when Addie wouldn't!  (Prelim. 29)

Kat, you quandry over the sending of Bowen seems to assume that Lizzie was guilty of the crimes and needed somehow to get him out of the house so as not to discover the second body?

If Lizzie was innocent does it still bother you so much that she sent him on her errands?



(Message last edited Nov-8th-02  11:11 PM.)

But what would Lizzie gain by sending Bowen out of the house.

If i was Lizzie and did the murders by my self i would leave the house after the second murder. That would leave Bridget finding the body, or been find in his room when someone else found the body.

By leaving the house rigth after the murder, and go to the sale that she told Briget aboute. That would get Lizzie a much better alibi!

The only reson for Lizzie not to leave at this point is...

1. She has no reson, she don´t know about the killings.
2. Someone has told her NOT to leave. If that person is the killer, you can understand why Lizzie stayd, got Bridget, then ´Bowen then the police.
So maybe Lizzie knew whats happend, but was not in on it, but then the same have to go for Bridget.

In the end, Lizzie and Bridget should been on the same sida. Inocent or gulity. Ethter they both were inocent, both in on the murders or both awere of them but not in on them.

She can't be "Innocent".
She was , in Blaisdell's words, *in possession of * 2 dead bodies.
Innocent of the actual murder with her own hands is one thing, but "Innocent", no.  She knew or else knew pretty quickly what was going on.
She does not search the house or cause the house to be searched until Bowen leaves  (is sent away).  HE was more muddled than she, to follow her request, until every family member was accounted for.

The only reason I can think of for Lizzie to consciously delay the finding of Abby, Jimmy, was so the time between their deaths seemed not so wide.

[Edit here:  Your new post was not there when I composed my reply]

(Message last edited Nov-9th-02  12:38 AM.)

Please excuse my silly questions Kat,I haven't read about this for quite awhile.
But dose not this point at some one that Lizzie knew did the actual killing?

Are you related to Fritz Adilz?  He is famous for his theory that was printed in many issues of the LBQ!
He thinks that yes, Lizzie knew the person who committed the crime, and gives his reasons why.  He is a Wonderful writer and I think from your country.
I don't know  if Lizzie would know the person, meaning having Met the person before.  But she might know to be ready for him, or when it did happen she may have known or been told what to do After.

My reading of Fritz Adilz paper, "On the Evidence" is that he thought William Davis did the actual murders, the son of the man Uncle John was staying with in South Dartmouth at the time, but Uncle John planned the murders and Lizzie and Emma were in on the planning. He thinks Lizzie saw or helped William on Aug. 4th.