1. "Uncle Morse's suits"
Posted by harry on Jul-2nd-02 at 9:44 PM

That character of characters, John V. Morse, had a reputation of not exactly being a clothe's horse. These are various descriptions of his suits from articles in the New Bedford Evening Standard newspaper:

August 6th in an interview:

"Mr. Morse wears a suit of light grey clothes, all he has with him since he has been in the city.  There is not a spot apparent on them.  "Look at me," he said, "as a man of common sense, and say if I could have committed such a horrible butchery and present the appearance I do." The last remark shows keenly the unhappy man feels the injustice that hasty suspicion has done him."

August 19th in the Hastings, Iowa newspaper.

"He would wear the same suit of clothes everywhere, and on all occasions, and one suit usually lasted him two or three years.  Indeed, it is pretty certain that the suit he is now wearing at Fall River is the same one he wore when he left here two years ago."

August 27th at the Preliminary:

"When the witnesses entered the courtroom John V. Morse trudged in the rear of the procession.  So much has been written about "Uncle" Morse's seedy clothes that it was rather disappointing to find him attired in a good looking suit of black broadcloth and ministerial tie.  He had, however, a sunburned hat in his hand that appeared to have been long in the service."

Also from the 27th:

"When the angular figure of John V. Morse took the stand a fresh wave of interest swept over the court room and every eye was turned toward the witness, and Mr. Morse made an impressive appearance.  He wore an iron-gray suit and had a beard of the same color.  His eyes are dark and restless and deeply set under a straight projecting forehead.  When looking straight into the face Mr. Morse has a shrewd but weird expression.
The old man had to be asked several times to raise his voice.  He looked a farmer down to the ground and had the speech characteristics of that class.  He said that Mrs. Borden was "tolerably comfortable," and also that Lizzie "shet" her door, and made hosts of other old fashioned remarks, but there was something impressive in the man's manner, and even the women that are left forgot to laugh."

I'm sorry, but, all I can think about is what that suit smelled like? 

I wonder how you keep a light gray suit clean for two years.

Of course there was always the Lee cleaners on Second street. Somehow, I don't think he frequented them.

Well, he did get a new one for the Preliminary.

(Message last edited Jul-2nd-02  11:51 PM.)

Thanks for the beautiful picture, Harry!  I've never seen Second Street from that angle before!  The picture looks odd though, doesn't Second Street slope down towards the Borden's house and not the other way.  When Andrew walked "downstreet" wasn't it actually down hill past the Churchill house?

And if John got his suit cleaned at the Lee's, what did he wear in the interim? 

Yes. The picture does show "down street". That's the Kelly cottage to the right and then the Bordens. Just a part of the Churchill/Buffinton house can be seen.

That's probably Uncle John on the left coming up street to the laundry. Either that or he's on the way to Weybosset street.

stef and i looked at this photo last week.
she asked the same question about the street.
it does seem to be sloping up at borden's before sloping down toward borden street.
mrs. kelly makes a big deal.. i think..out of making sure we all know her house is above bordens...
is this an optical illusion
-signed, cheeto-fingers

Don't be too harsh w/ Uncle John; he was a working horse trader, not a primped and perfumed member of the leisure class. His costume seems designed to strike a familiar and comforting pose with the farming jury. (I'm just one of the boys, like you.")

I realize in that era people did not own anywhere near as much clothing as we do today, but, one suit and shirt to wear on a trip to Fall River, and in the summer no less?  But, then Uncle John shows up in court in another suit, did he buy it or borrow one of Andrew's?  I'm refering to the black broadcloth suit. 

My grandfather, born before the murders, and dead for over 30+ years, worked a farm for decades. He had one suit worn winter and summer.
Or maybe more than one, but that's how I remember it.)
Just look at the inventory: 18 dresses for the Borden girls, most of them Lizzie's. Before they came into money.

Great picture, Harry!  I think "downstreet" was used like "downtown".  That was the way to downtown Fall River.  I don't know that they used it meaning the street went down or sloped.  I wish all the other houses were still there.  That would make SOME tour, huh?  There's a bus terminal right across the street from Lizzie's now.  Sort of jars you back into the present.  I can't recall there being a noticeable slope to the street.  But the Hill is definitely higher.  I am surprised Lizzie bought the mansion she did (was it even considered a 'mansion'?).  There are way more attractive ones in Fall River, like on Rock Street where the museum is.

Who says Uncle John didn't have another suit of the same kind to put on after the murders?  I hope he had a change of shirts. 

Yes, it does sound like he borrowed a suit of Andrew's for court.  Sometimes an attorney will arrange for more suitable clothing for a witness if he's on his side.

You were on Second street and didn't notice a slope?
Lubinsky says it is downhill.
Kelly says it is downhill. 
(?)

The Davis family is interviewed (yea, right?) and say Morse left to go to Borden's with just the clothes on his back, as he expected to return the same day.  If they really said that, then that's their story & they're stickin' to it!...as bobcookbobcook would say.

This is my own post, Out Of the Privy:

Kat
1141 posts Mar-13th-02  8:28 AM
   

1. "The New Bedford Evening Standard--MORSE"


     
Did She Or Didn't She?  is the title of this over-sized soft-back book that reproduces the newspaper articles from the Evening Standard, beginning Aug.4th, 1892.

From Aug,5th, 1892 :4 , FRIDAY (remember the press was chaotic at this time):

"THE SUSPECTED MAN
__________________
John V. Morse, a Well-to-do Western Land Owner
__________________
He Lived in the Family of Isaac C. Davis of South Dartmouth
__________________
Spoken of as a Man of Excellent Character
__________________

......John V. Morse (who was located at South Dartmouth), a relative of the murdered man, had been living for a year with Isaac C. Davis, and that he had gone to Fall River the day before the tragedy.

Calling upon Mr. Davis, who lives on Potter's Hill, just before entering the village of South Dartmouth, much was learned concerning Morse, who in fact has been a member of the Davis family for about a year.  Mr. Davis, who is a butcher, is blind, and he has unbounded faith in him.  For that matter Morse has been his adviser in affairs of business, and with his son William a close relationship has existed for some time.

Mr. Davis greeted the STANDARD man kindly and furnished much material that has hitherto been unknown to the public.

John Vinecum (sic) Morse, he states, was born in Fall River, and about 30 years ago came to South Dartmouth looking for work.  He was given a job by Mr. Davis, and proving to be a steady and industrious young fellow the family soon learned to think a great deal of him..  After working for Mr. Davis a few years he packed up his clothes and went West.  At first he settled in Illinois, buying and selling land.  In this he was very successful and is supposed to have accumulated wealth.  Finally he settled in Hastings, Mill County, Iowa.  About two years ago he came East with a large number of horses of his own raising, and after disposing of many of these animals at Warren, R.I., where he has an uncle, he made his appearance at Padanaram.  There he disposed of the remainder of the horses, and about a year ago took up his residence at the house of Mr. Davis.  As before stated, Mr. Davis is blind and Morse has been his adviser.  His judgement in matters of business was considered good, and in nearly every particular his advice was asked.

Upon being questioned, Mr. Davis said that for several weeks he had talked of purchasing a pair of cattle of Mr. Borden, and on Thursday (sic?), after shaving Mr. Davis, he (Morse) started on foot to take the electric car for the city, intending to take the train for Fall River.

A daughter of Mr. Davis, who was present during this conversation, stated that Morse wore a light gray suit and that it was his intention of returning home last night. (Thursday?)

Continuing, Mr. Davis said Morse was to have purchased additional cattle while away, and that he also expected to run over to Warren to see his uncle.  His purchases were to be brought home with him.

After rehearsing the above facts the scribe was questioned as to the cause for such an earnest inquiry into the particulars of Morse's career.

'Has he been hurt?'  'Has he met with an accident?'  were questions asked.  They had read the particulars of the Borden tragedy as printed in the third edition of the STANDARD, but never for a moment dreamed that their friend was suspected of the crime.

When told of the true situation of affairs each and every member of that household were completely surprised.  The first to recover from this startling intelligence was one of the daughters.  'It's nonsense,' said she, 'John Morse thought too much of his brother-in-law to do such a thing as that.'

'You are right,' replied the aged father,  'He's too upright a man to harbor even such a thought.  Why, sir, he thought as much of Mr. Borden as the day he married his sister who has since died, and he frequently spoke of his brother-in-law and nieces in endearing terms.  No sir, John V. Morse never committed that crime.  It's an awful mistake.  Why, I would have trusted him with everthing in this world, and would as soon think of my own son doing the deed.'

It was in a like matter that the daughters spoke of Morse.  Davis, and in fact everyone present, gave him an excellent name, and felt confident that he would be able to clear himself from the terrible suspicion which at present is hanging over him.    If it should prove that John V. Morse is in any way connected with this murder it will be as great a surprise to the members of the Davis family as was the finding of the murdered man and woman yesterday.

Morse is said to have cousins residing in this city (New Bedford?), and he seems to be very little known by the townspeople  residing in Padanaram.  To them he has been looked upon as a mystery, as they term it, simply because they have known nothing about him.

Morse, who is supposed to have accumulated wealth, had  repeatedly talked of retiring from active business, as being a single man he had enough to live on the rest of his days.

Morse is a good looking man over 6 feet tall and will weigh about 200 pounds."

(Message last edited Mar-13th-02  8:36 AM.)

(Message last edited Jul-6th-02  1:40 AM.)

Well, Kat, that is a horse of a different color!  I had always thought that John Morse was coming to Fall River for a nice long visit with just the clothes on his back.  I never knew that he was supposed to be returning that night. 

A:  No, Sir.  I do not recall a slope to Second Street.  After all, it's been some time since I've been to Fall River. 

But, there does seem to be a slope to the street in every picture I've seen of the Borden house.  The Kelly cottage seems to be higher on the hill or incline and Mrs. Churchill's is lower.

Even today, there's a definite slope to Second Street.  Downstreet is markedly "down" (even though one is moving south), and the other direction (toward where the Kelly cottage would have stood and where the Leary Press is now located) is definitely "up."

Thanks, Edisto.  Did you see Harry's pic of Second Street with the Lee's laundry there?  The street slope looks all off, like it goes down at the Churchill's and is at its highest point at the Borden's and then slopes down at the Kelly's.  Very strange! 

I'm answering my own post for a reason this time.  I meant to say that "downstreet" is NORTH (the opposite of the way "down" is on a map).

Does anyone know what that square thing is on the Borden roof in the middle photo?
It looks like a trap door?
What use would it have?

The trap door allows access to the roof in case repairs need to be made.

I believe Fleet said he inspected the roof or at least poked his head up through there to see he he could see any stray hatchets.

(Message last edited Jul-7th-02  9:40 PM.)

Maybe its to have access to the roof to get snow off of it?  I know in Buffalo, NY, they sometimes have to clean the roof off or it could collapse under the weight of all the snow. 

From page 732 of the trial. Capt. Dennis Desmond is testifying:

Q.  No, I don't want the whole building.
A.  Well, we gave the upper part of the building, the entire attics, a good thorough search.
Q.  Did you go up on the roof?
A.  Is seems to me the assistant marshal did go up there and look out there once or twice.
Q.  So you did go to the top of the house?
A.  Yes, sir.
Q.  Clear up to the ridge-pole?
A.  Yes, sir.

Damn. now I have to find out what a ridge-pole is!

yes please, oh, bwanna, sir

My granddaddy was a carpenter, so I know what a ridgepole is.  (Good title for a country song!)  It's just what it sounds like!  I'm glad this trial excerpt was posted, because some time ago, I looked for it and couldn't find it.  I was looking because I thought I'd read somewhere that at least one policeman went up on the Borden roof during the search.  You'll recall that a hatchet was found on a nearby shed roof (Crowe's yard), many months after the murders.  I had wondered why a policeman on the Borden roof wouldn't have been able to see it, assuming it was thrown there right after the murders.  Of course, I guess the leaves on the trees might have gotten in the way...but still, it's food for thought.  (Also, at least one newspaper account makes it sound as if the hatchet was found on a roof near Third Street and not the roof nearest the Borden yard.)

Is a ridgepole the very peak of the roof? 

Found this drawing, showing a ridge pole. Not exactly the same kind of house as the Borden's but is does gives you an idea. Apparently it runs the length of the roof.

Isn't it amazing how a thread can start out talking about suits, cover whether Second street is uphill or downhill and end up on the roof of the Borden house.



(Message last edited Jul-8th-02  12:54 PM.)

That was good, thanks Harry.
Edisto ended up on CROWES roof which I guess had no ridgepole.
But she opened up a line of inquiry that hadn't been exposed before...

I guess it's me that changes the subject?
Should I be more formal in starting new threads when I go off topic?  I've been wondering this.  Is it too informal this way?  My "habit" just somehow seems to evolve, like any conversation. 
I know I'm NOT being chided ...but really- is it confusing to people?

Not at all, Kat!  I love how the conversation progresses into different untapped areas.

Oh, and not to pat myself on the back too much, but, I guess I figured out what a ridgepole was.  Thanks for the illustration, Harry! 

No problem Kat, in fact it makes it far more fun.

I was just amazed how one thing leads to another, most of the time quite naturally. I find things like that interesting.

Way to go Susan. We'll have to get you a job working for Southard Miller.

(Message last edited Jul-9th-02  1:03 AM.)

  Great, Harry!  Then I'll discover all his building secrets, why a house should have no hallways, and each room have two to three doors in it!

I find it fun & interesting, too.

But I've been to other places (Just looking) where the TOPIC is ALL and OT is like a dirty word.

I just am naturally like this, but I could change if I HAD to...I think(?)

I wondered what our archives would be like, trying to find something in there...BUT, thank God/dess we have a SEARCH FEATURE!