1. "Poisonous Paints"
Posted by Susan on May-27th-02 at 3:41 PM

As an artist, I have come in contact with quite a few toxic substances, including paints.  Nowadays its not so bad, but, consider what was allowed in house paints in the 1800's.

Until the nineteenth century, colors were mixed on-site by the painter.  (Like our Lizzie had done when she wanted her father's house painted that just right shade of drab.)  Oil paint was usually linseed oil-based, perhaps with white LEAD as a color base.

There were once 3 shades of yellow available that were produced using SULFUR, MERCURY, or ARSENIC.

Verdigris was made with ACETIC ACID(which in itself is not toxic, it is the main acid in household vinegar, but, when mixed with copper to get the bluish-green it produces toxic gas!)

And everybodies favorite, Prussian blue, it was made with PRUSSIC ACID!!!  Perhaps Lizzie just wanted to make some paint the day before the murders? 

There was a first-time poster, earlier, who asked if anyone knew the *COLOR* of Prussic Acid.
I not only didn't know, I didn't know how to find out;  nor did I know WHY someone would want to know this.

Do you suppose it was blue?  For some reason I pictured a sickly yellow...

I would believe that prussic acid is either clear or I feel a sort of soft yellow to amber color, my supposition.  I do know that it works instantaneously in death and that it smells of almonds. 

Pulled out the old Funk & Wagnalls.

Prussic Acid (really Hydrogen Cyanide or HCN) is defined in current terms as: "an extremely poisonous, colorless liquid with a characteristic bitter-almond odor."

However it also says that HCN is made differently today than it had been in the past. It "originally was prepared from Prussian blue, from which the secondary name is derived". One of the definitions of the word "cyanic" is blue. I've also seen it described as a light blue. Susan, is Prussian blue a light blue?

Today it is made from methane, ammonia and air with a platinum catalyst. Whatever that means. 

(Message last edited May-28th-02  2:51 PM.)

Thanks for the info, Harry! 

Prussian Blue is a deep, rich, dark blue very close to navy blue, but, not quite as black.

On a currently prepared tube of Prussian blue states that no health labeling is required and the ingredients are as follows:

Vehicle(binder): Pure Linseed oil

Pigment: Alkali Ferri Ferrocyanide (PB 27)

I don't know if Ferrocyanide is any less poisonous than regular cyanide?  But, there are still some paints which contain poisons in them, like Cadmium reds and yellows!  Warning on the labels state that it is a cancer agent by inhalation!  Cadmium red used to be used in lipstick I believe until the 50's when found to be a carcenogenic.  And Cadmium yellow also contains cow urine! 

(Message last edited May-28th-02  4:08 PM.)

Thanks Susan. Probably the "blueness" of the acid depended upon the concetrate.

The following is a link to a small site describing a murder in England by a poison substance, one of whose principle ingrediants was prussic acid. Note that the murderer purchased the acid from his local chemist (druggist as we say in the USA). Also the number of similarities. This was in 1845. Hmmm...wonder if Lizzie read about this case.

http://www.tales.ndirect.co.uk/FITZR2.HTML

BTW, remind me not to buy anything with Cadmium Yellow in it!



(Message last edited May-28th-02  4:58 PM.)

Thanks for the link, Harry!  Steele's Acid was used in the treatment of varicose veins?  Did one drink it, or rub it on the afflicted area?  And just having the chemist's testimony in Lizzie's trial, it would take such a small amount to induce death, how was such a toxic substance marketed?  I realize there was no FDA then, but, there must have been some realization of how poisonous this acid was? 


And I'll keep the Cadmium yellow far away from you, Harry! 
The way I found that out was in school when we had a woman visiting from Grumbacher.  She passed out a tube of Cadmium yellow and asked everyone to rub a little between their fingers to feel the smoothness of their brand of paint.  I did not, knowing that Cadmium is not something to put on your skin, you can absorb it.  Other people did though, and with a twinkle in her eye, the Grumbacher woman told everyone that they now had cow urine on their fingers as it is one of the ingrediants.  She thought that I was a smart cookie and knew about the urine already.  Whatever!

A bit of supplemental info on Prussic Acid:

Rebello, pg. 81, Zephaniah W. Pease, "The Borden Case", New Bedford Daily Mercury, August 24, 1892: 2.

"Prussic acid [hydrocyanic acid] is one of the most deadly poisons known and it is frequently exceedingly rapid in its action  Death usually takes place from one to forty minutes.  It is sure, quick and refined; ...It is a transparent, colorless, volatile, possessing a smell resembling that of peack kernedis [kernels], a taste at first cooling, and afterwards somewhat irritating.  To be techinal, the prussic acid we buy at drug stores is two percent, absolute hydrocyanic and 98 percent, of alchol and water.  One or two drops of the pure acid will kill a vigorous dog in a few seconds - almost instantaneousley.  Death is the result of asphyxia, produced by a direct, paralytical action of the poison on the respiratory centers.  It paralyzes the heart and sometimes produces fatal syncope.  Sometimes death is instantaneous, but usually there are three stages, the first being difficulty of respiration, the second a convulsive stage, when the victim is violent, and the third, collapse.

The peach odor is one of the strongest of indication.  The post mortem appearances are glistening and staring expression of the eyes, a gorged state of the venous system, and if death has been rapid, the blood is cyanotic.  The poison is volatile, but it has been detected three weeks after death."

Well, then, I guess maybe I should try something else!  My souffles have been known to cause a similar reaction.

Thanks for the additional info, Kat!  Very interesting, the peach pit smell, I read it smelled of almonds? 

  Very good, Edisto!  I've heard that Prussic acid goes very well with mutton.

Unnatural Death, Confessions of a Medical Examiner, Michael Baden, M.D., 1989, pg. 40:
"Cyanide is easy to find if we are looking for it.  Any reader of mystery stories knows that it has an odor of bitter almonds.  The odor lingers even at the autopsy, but there's a catch -- not everyone can smell it.  The ability to smell it is genetic, and only 40 percent of the population have the right genes.  For those with the wrong genes, cyanide provides two other clues -- it turns the skin and blood dark scarlet, and it corrodes the stomach.  Cyanide prevents oxygen from being distributed to the body.  It kills by suffocation.
...cyanide is the one most associated with spies and international intrigue.  As a suicide pill it acts rapidly..."

Thanks for the info, Kat.  I wonder what other poisons were common in the Victorian household?  I do recall reading that even the wallpaper was suspect, traces of arsenic and such. 

Found a wonderful site on Prussic Acid.  Apparently it WAS used to gas insects, especially the larvae!!!  This was in the 1940s from what I gather, perhaps Lizzie was ahead of her time?


http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconzyklon.html

While reading this from Susan in post #1 of this thread, I had a visual image:
"And everybodies favorite, Prussian blue, it was made with PRUSSIC ACID!!!  Perhaps Lizzie just wanted to make some paint the day before the murders?"

I had this image flash in my head: I saw Lizzie licking the walls of her room. Now I know that sounds sick, but think about it (I have no idea where I am going so bear with me as I flesh this out while I type it here).

Lead poisoning happens a lot to poor innercity kids doesn't it? They lick the walls, or eat chips of paint from the walls, right? That must mean that this kind of paint has a nice flavor or else is very addictive.

This is dumb, but maybe Lizzie had a prussic acid addiction (if such a thing is possible) and she needed to up the dosage and thought she could buy it for herself from the drug store. Maybe it was only after leaving the house, being in jail and later moving to Maplecroft, that she was able to get over it.

Does this sound crazy to any of you?

Well, Stef, I don't know if someone could have an addiction to Prussic acid seeing how deadly it is, but, what I was thinking was that maybe Lizzie lived in a "toxic" house.  And I mean that as outside of the family relations, what I'm refering to is the wallpaper could have lead and arsenic, etc, the paint was most definitely lead based.  Lead pipes to bring water into the house, you get my drift?  The family may have been poisoned all along by the items in their home.
And something I found out from my brother who paints houses, when re-doing Victorian homes, "mouthable" surfaces; such as windowsills, lower portions of doors, plus baseboards(sometimes) all need to be cleaned of lead based paint.  These are at a level where children can put their mouths on and get lead poisoning.  Lead poisoning is accumulative, it builds up over a period of time. 

I'm not a physician or even a medical technician. But doesn't cyanide (bluish?) also turn Caucasian skin blue? Absence of oxygen, etc.

The fact that it kills so quickly makes it practical for L-pills, or vermin removal; but not for stealth poisoning!  Unless used as a defensive weapon ("here, have some hot tea to calm your nerves, dear William").

There are other poisonous gasses used to fumigate businesses and homes from certain insect infestation. They cover the place with a plastic tent to seal it in. There was something on the news about this in NY city over 12 years ago; infestation in spices from Asia.

(Message last edited Jun-14th-02  2:14 PM.)

I just recently had my apartment(its in a duplex)tented for termites.  I don't recall the gas that is used, but, all house plants must be out of the house, all food must be stored in these special double plastic bags, etc.  And all this for 2 days!!!  Thats how toxic this stuff is that they use! 

Found this little goodie on the links page for the Household Cyclopedia of General Information, it is an article on making oil paints, for household or artist use:

To Make Prussian Blue

Dissolve Sulphate of Iron (Copperas: a green sulphate of iron used in dyeing or making inks. Or Copper Vitriol, which also has the same caustic properties, dangerous stuff to handle!!!) in water; boil the solution. 

Add Nitric Acid(a corrosive liquid used in making dyes, explosives, and fertilizers.) until red fumes cease to come off(!!!!!), add enough Sulphuric Acid ( A heavy corrosive oily acid used esp. in making fertilizers, chemicals, and petroleum products.) to render the liquor clear.  This is the Persulphate of Iron.  To this add a solution of Ferrocyanide of Potassium(Yellow Prussiate of Potash i.e. Prussic Acid!!!!),as long as any precipitate is produced.  (Precipitate: the solid matter that seperates out and usually falls to the bottom of a liquid.) Wash this precipitate thoroughly with water acidulated with Sulphuric Acid, and dry in a warm place.

I would imagine if one survived using all these chemicals you would end up with a dried mass of Prussian Blue pigment that could then be ground up and added to Linseed oil.  Please do not try this at home!!!

I think it would be safer if we just took a PHOTOGRAPH.

Oh, but if we develope the film ourselves there are equally dangerous chemicals in use there too! 

O.K.
How about a POLOROID?

  Okay!  You know I was just kidding before!