Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Lizzie Andrew Borden
Topic Name: Books, Books and More Books

1. "Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Lola on Apr-15th-03 at 7:03 PM

Hi All,

I wanted to get your opinions on all the books written about Lizzie. What, IYO, are the best and worst, and if you don't mind, why do you feel this way. It sure would help me out.

Thanks!  


2. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by njwolfe on Apr-15th-03 at 8:03 PM
In response to Message #1.

Hi Lola, there is a thread on here titled "what are the best
Lizzie books" that you could pull up from the search option, it
isn't that old. Many posted their lists of books. 
Good Luck, Nancie


3. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Kat on Apr-16th-03 at 12:38 AM
In response to Message #1.

I like all things Pearson.
There are essays in his *compilation* books and then there is his Trial, 1937.  It is literally a gorgeous book.
I like the way he writes but he has added a lot of rumor to spice up his version of Lizzie.  You have to decide for yourself what sounds reliable and what sounds outrageous.  The time period in which he wrote was contemporary with Lizzie mostly, and so that is fascinating to me.

As to newer titles  I adore Rick Geary's *graphic novel* on the case.  It's so accessible.  You can pick it up, put it down, open at random or read all the way through.  It is so flexible.  Of course they all have their errors and when you get realy conversant with the crimes it's fun to spot the mistakes.


4. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by rays on Apr-16th-03 at 4:47 PM
In response to Message #1.

I think Vicky L's book of in-group gossip is the worst measured as non-fiction. VL was a professional writer, and it shows in her book.
F Spiering's book ("Emma did it") is incredible, but gives background information missing in other books (to pad it out?).

I didn't read E Hunter or the other works of fiction.

AR Brown's book is the best because he solved the crime. He explains all the funny things that happened then, and afterwards. D Kent also has a good book.


5. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Lola on Apr-17th-03 at 1:01 AM
In response to Message #4.

Thanks everyone!

I have a few Lizzie books already and I've placed holds on some at the library. You all have studied this case so closely and I was curious what your favored books are.

Thanks again ~


6. ": Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Kat on Apr-17th-03 at 1:24 AM
In response to Message #5.

I would think you would get a bigger response.

I can go on about more of my favorite books on Lizzie, but it's someone else's turn!
PS:  Angela Carter! She is in a compilation book and I think she is a download in the archives.  I can find her if you like.  She is British and therefore biased and error-filled, but Oh so Good a writer!


7. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Stefani on Apr-17th-03 at 1:36 AM
In response to Message #1.

I like The Knowlton Papers. It is chock full of interesting finds you can't read anywhere else. And since it is the writings and papers and letter to and from one of the principals in the case, it is "closer" to the mystery. Too many of the books out there are so far-fetched that you have to read them while biting your tongue.

I think it was Augusta and maybe others who wanted to have a section here somewhere were we take the books apart and find the holes. It might prove, actually, to be a good way to get everyone involved and learn a ton about the truth of the case in the process.

We could pick a new book a month! We could give time for each of us to get a copy, from the library or used book store, read it and then post a date for the deconstruction. We could find the faults, making lists of them, and the things they got right. Going from first page to last. Whaddya say?

If so, let's start with something easily accessible. Like Brown or Radin or Lincoln. We could vote. I think this would be fun and informative. Let's do it!


8. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by njwolfe on Apr-17th-03 at 7:24 AM
In response to Message #7.

I think that is a great idea Stefani!


9. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Kat on Apr-18th-03 at 12:00 AM
In response to Message #8.

What if we start small, like an artcle?
Who wants to critique John Douglas?
I'm reading for the 3rd time his profiling attempt at Lizzie.
What's disconcerting is that many facts are wrong or misrepresented.
So I want to know what weight these wrong *facts* have in his evaluation?
It seems that he couldn't possibly profile Lizzie accurately with stories or rumors.
This is a dissapointment.  Not knowing where he places emphasis in order to decide if she is profiled as a killer.


10. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by emma on Apr-18th-03 at 12:23 AM
In response to Message #1.

I just finished reading "Lizzie Borden" by Elizabeth Engstrom. It is fiction, and I found it to be not extremely well written or believeable for that matter. It was only interesting because of the subject matter, and some of the characters' "inner monologues" were interesting to read; however, on the whole I was disappointed by the book. I also could not believe the way Emma was portrayed: she was a horribly mean, bitter, drunk! I really hadn't pictured her that way from all the other accounts I have read about her. Does anyone else feel this way about the book? What are your opinions?


11. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by njwolfe on Apr-18th-03 at 8:46 PM
In response to Message #10.

Emma I felt the same way about that book, entertaining but
way off the mark.  Kat where would we get the article you
suggest? 


12. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Rays on Apr-21st-03 at 11:19 AM
In response to Message #9.

John Douglas' book is just self-serving boasts, IMO. Why doesn't he do something better, like solve the JFK assassination? That would really be a trial for anyone.
You can read it and form you own opinion.
What about Walter Hixon's book?
...
When I read it, I noticed that he claims he needed to "talk to the defendant". Without a lawyer!!! I don't know if he uses hypnotism or some other trick to put ideas into their minds. We all know it is possible to plant ideas into people's minds by talking to them.


(Message last edited Apr-21st-03  11:22 AM.)


13. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Kat on Apr-21st-03 at 8:46 PM
In response to Message #11.

Whenever I get a question about a book I go to Stef's Bibliography:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/BibliographyCase.htm

She IS a professional at it, after all.

The article I have is just xeroxed for private use so I can write all over it.  (I should probably say "annotated"!)

So to give you info, I do go to the Biblio. at the LAB Libray site:

"Douglas, John, and Mark Olshaker. 'Lizzie Borden'. 'The Cases That Haunt Us'. NY: Scribner's, 2000. 81-118.
Written by the reknowned FBI profiler, this chapter is a disappointment, not because of his conclusion, but for the obviously flawed research and numerous factual errors. Despite this, Douglas makes a rather persuasive argument for Lizzie's guilt."

Thanks for asking.
Try your local library.  If they don't have it, ask for Inter-library loan.


14. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by njwolfe on Apr-21st-03 at 10:50 PM
In response to Message #13.

seems to have gotten off the track here, what happened
to a book review as Stefani suggested?


15. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Kat on Apr-22nd-03 at 12:07 AM
In response to Message #14.

I thought you had asked about where to find the Douglas article?

I've written book reviews and video reviews and so have others.  Stefani is saving them up to display at the LABMuseum/Library.

You're welcome to write a book review here.

Stef was specifically talking about a deconstruction of a book, giving errors and posting the facts.
That is a major undertaking.
Personally I am not reading authors now.
Other's may be.  A person can learn a lot by taking apart a book on Lizzie.

I'm working on comparitive timelines of Morse, in testimony at Inquest, Prelim., and Trial.

Be our guest and pick a video or book and good luck!


16. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by RayS on Apr-22nd-03 at 7:45 PM
In response to Message #1.

David Kent's "Forty Whacks" is the Best Book to start your readings. Not only did it come after almost all the others, but it has the most complete bibliography on all books, articles, etc.
Think of it as the one best reference to all the others. It reviews the known facts of the case. (Does not list the 1963 "Trial of Lizzie Borden" by E Pearson edited by G Gross.)


17. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by njwolfe on Apr-22nd-03 at 8:13 PM
In response to Message #16.

Thanks Ray, I've read Kent and every book on Lizzie, this post
got confusing, Steph posted an enthusiastic inviation to review
and pick apart a book (one by one) and I thought it was a good
idea.  (but I guess I'm in the minority so I'll shut up)! 


18. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Kat on Apr-22nd-03 at 11:14 PM
In response to Message #17.

You can write a review of that Yankee magazine article.
Stef will collect these and display them at the LABMuseum/Library.

Susan is the only one I know who has deconstructed a book.  She did Lincoln and thinks she got *infected* temporarily.  That's one reason it is so hard.
I also don'tknow how long it took.
If you have read a LOT of Lizzie, I still think you can pick something and start.

Stef will be off school next month so maybe her enthusiasm will recover by then.  I know she really likes the idea!


19. "Re: Books, Books and More Books"
Posted by Susan on Apr-23rd-03 at 1:31 AM
In response to Message #18.

Yes, NJ, I was deconstructing Victoria Lincoln's book, kind of stopped in the middle.  If you'd like, you may pick up where I left off with that one.  Or, you could just go check out the thread, Lets Dissect Victoria Lincoln.    Here is the link:

http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?start=1&fid=27&taid=1&topid=1029&ut=1045460386

(Message last edited Apr-23rd-03  1:35 AM.)



 

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