1. "Andrews Coat :  Has This Been Covered?"
Posted by stargazer on Mar-9th-03 at 1:09 AM

Would Andrew have folded his coat to use as a pillow? Wasn't his head on the coat? I read a theory that Lizzie ? or ? put his coat on, committed the murder, then folded the coat, and placed it beneath his head. I can't imagine anyone wearing a black Prince Albert on a hot day!

I think this was covered in earlier post.
From the position of his legs and feet on the floor, I deduce that he was sitting upright when whacked, and the blows on the left side of his head (from right handed killer) pushed the body to the right, onto the folded jacket.
You can try this position at home, if you're over 50 years. It isn't very comfortable that way?

yes.  it's been covered.  some have theorized that lizzie wore it and then put it there.  but apparently he did wear it.  as i understand it, being properly covered was important in victorian times, regardless of the heat.  i tried to find out if the coat was examined thorougly--specifically, if it showed signs of having been splattered--to try and clear up if it was worn, but results are inconclusive as usual. 

He did wear the Prince Albert coat that day.  No wonder he didn't feel so good - having that extra clothing on plus having been so sick earlier.  The papers describe him as having been an "old fashioned" dresser.

But I don't think for a moment that he came home and put his coat on the sofa like that. 

I agree with Rays.  I think Andrew was not laying down - I think he was sitting up when he got whacked.

I think the murderer did use the coat and set it there, knowing that any blood on it would or at the very least could be attributed to Andrew's leakage.

Who was in such a hurry to bury the clothing?  Morse!  I'm thinking Morse's pal here.  It fits. 

Actually, I was under the impression that Morse contracted to bury the clothing, but it was under the aegis of the police and M.E.  Isn't it the newspapers who soil Morse with an ulterior motive?  (See Rebello, 110, 111)

Witness Statements
pg. 42
"ALBERT E. CHASE

Fall River, Mass. August 5, 1892. The following articles and wearing apparel were this afternoon taken from a washtub in the cellar wash room of the Borden House by orders of the City Marshal and Medical Examiner, and were buried under my direction in-the yard back of the barn.
1 sofa pillow and tidy, one large piece of Brussels carpet, one roll of cotton batting, one sheet and several pieces of cotton cloth, three towels, one napkin, one chemise, one dress., one pair drawers, one skirt, two aprons, one hair braid and several pieces of hair from Mrs. Borden's head from five to eight inches long, one neck tie, one truss, one piece of black silk braid or watch guard.
I also found mixed in with the hair of Mrs. Borden a piece of bone, which from it nature I took to be a piece of Mrs. Borden's skull, it was cut so smooth, that I thought it might be of use in determining what kind of instrument was used, as the bone and hair both had the appearance of being cut with a very sharp instrumetn; I gave this piece of bone to Dr. Dolan.
About the middle of the next week Dr. Dolan ordered all the articles dug up. After taking out pieces of clothing and of the carpet, they were ordered buried again. This time they were all put in a box."



(Message last edited Mar-10th-03  4:30 AM.)

Judge Robert Sullivan's book may have been the first to suggest this in print "Goodbye Lizzie Borden". Does it correlate with the other known facts?
...
Was he the originator of the theory of using the coat as a shield?
Didn't somebody say try it, it doesn't work too good?

(Message last edited Mar-11th-03  3:08 PM.)

I'm wondering if both forms of this story may be true.
That Morse agitated to have the bloody clothing removed from the house and appealing to the Marshal, got this response, which states that the burial was under Chase's supervision?

When you arrive at three score and ten, you may feel cool even in hot weather. Hardening of the arteries and all that. It depends.

I can feel my arteries hardening even as I write.  Actually, I'm looking forward to feeling cool even in the hot weather here in the swamplands of Virginia.  Maybe I won't have to replace my ancient air-conditioner after all.

What?  DEPENDS?
I have some in the closet.
Not for me of course, not yet...

looking at that list, what strikes me is both what is there and what is missing.  apparently they were mixing the victim's clothing with other things used for various reasons.  2 aprons?  3 towels?  and where are mr. borden's pants, for example?  how difficult would it have been to get a bloody murder garment mixed in with that?  and there you are -- no bloody garment found.

Yes, Haulover, I've always found that list maddening as it doesn't list Andrew's suit or shirt or longjohns.  I wonder what the roll of cotton batting was used for?  If I remember correctly that is used for the inside of a quilt.  Or, were they referring to a roll of cotton as would be used in say a doctor's office? 

I thought it might be their description of the D.R. lounge cover, if it was cotten.  That isn't listed.

I guess that question by Bridget to Mrs. Churchill was true:
" Is two enough?" answer:  "I should think a plenty."
They only used ONE SHEET?
How can that be when they were autopsied in two different rooms?

exactly.

why two aprons?  would abby have been wearing two?  or is that something one of the doctors would have put on? 

why so sloppy with this evidence when they were looking for a bloody garment?

this reminds me of something else.  you know how we've noted that when lizzie says she could swear her father didn't go upstairs that she's actually convincing?

(actually, there are several of these; i should collect them.)

another one like that is when knowlton asks her if she wore an apron that day.  her response is:  "Did i what?"  (i can see her actually thinking, "an apron?  what does an apron have to do with anything?")

I always felt that when Lizzie paused and repeated the question, she was thinking furiously for an answer and that would be a clue as to when a lie or evasion or 1/2 truth (or whatever is correct in calling it ) was about to be floated for the appreciation of all concerned.

i see what you mean.  it works that way too.