1. "Lizzie and Central Congregational"
Posted by stuart on Feb-11th-03 at 10:45 PM

I wish that we knew more about Lizzie's return to church after the trial, and the circumstances that led to her finally leaving for good. Someone told me ( I think that it was Florence Brigham) that Lizzie went back to Central several times before quitting. Was there a change in the leadership at Central at this time? I would think that the minister in charge would do everything in his power to make sure that the Borden money didn't escape his collection plate. I envision him paying a few calls on the Borden sisters to reaffirm the continued support from before the trial. So, either there was a change in clergy to a new pastor that didn't know Lizzie and Emma, or something else happened to break Lizzie's connection with Central. But what? Any ideas?

Kat had actually just posted an article about this, but, I'm darned if I can find it right now.  Lizzie was shunned by the women who went to this church, drawing their skirts away from her as if they were going to catch something for her.

I think that would be difficult for anyone to endure for long.  Lizzie dropped off her church going and if what I recall is right, Emma started going, well, religiously.  I wonder how people treated her when she went? 

From "Lizzie Goes To Church??" by Augusta, in the LAB section.
http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?start=1&fid=27&taid=1&topid=670
I was recently wondering myself whether Lizzie kept up friendships with her supporters from her church.

I thought, similarly, that it would be suspicious if she just dropped them after their so visible backing of her, after her trial.  But it would also be suspicious if they just dropped her...or maybe human nature?

Apparently Emma was the truly pious one and did keep up her church relationships.   How hard it must have been for her to leave the town of her birth and go away from her dear friends, the Buck daughters!

From the Archive (old) within the Archive at lizzieandrewborden.com.   Title of Thread "C.C.C." by Kat:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/ArchiveAccc.htm
--Here we had talked about the church and the Mission--and Bill gives interesting info from a book on the church.
Also the FRHS is cited with an article (partly mentioned) as to Lizzie's dedication to her early work for the church.

The article to which Susan refers is:
http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?fid=27&taid=8&topid=1125
Privy--"The Lizzie Borden Sourcebook--final article"
Which I just created. (KK)
It is a fascinating *story*, and was a little lost in the Privy in the "OH! WAITER!" thread.

Anyway, your questions are valid because everything seems to be interrelated in the study of our mystery, and I had thought sometimes that maybe Lizzie joined a church for the wrong reasons...?  Or even just for *social* reasons, as that might have been her only approved outlet for her search for peers/friends.

--Apparently, according to Rebello, pg. 167, Rev. Jubb only knew Lizzie a short while before her arrest for murder.
He was pastor at C.C.C. from Sept. 1891 until July, 1896 when he resigned. 
-  Who succeeded him? hmmm?


(Message last edited Feb-12th-03  7:09 PM.)

Thanks for the links, Kat. I will get busy reading them! I guess I'm just wondering why Lizzie would have been allowed to leave Central for good. I'm sure that she gave liberally to the church, and any pastor worth his salt would not want the Borden money to walk out the door, never to return. Even if sentiment was against Lizzie, a clever pastor would have tried to walk a thin line and keep Lizzie (and her pledge) right there. BTW, did Emma leave any money to the church in her will?

can you imagine the psychological effect on a person when no one wanted to get anywhere near you?  to sit on a church pew empty all around you -- thus calling attention to yourself as a sort of contagious anomaly?  whether guilty or innocent, she had no choice but to leave.  i currently think she's guilty, but i really pity her if she wasn't. 

Forget about the money, what about the behavior of the ministers towards Lizzie after her acquittal?  They walked with  her "arm in arm," and stood by her side.  One of them even preached a moving sermon to his flock protesting Lizzie's innocence (I read quotes from this sermon, but I forget where).  I believe  it was Rev. Jubb.  1.  Did none of this support from the reverends do any good at softening peoples' hearts towards Lizzie?
2.  Did the reverends also drop her after the trial?

The bitchiness of the "good people" who want to show that they are somehow "better" than one marked by an indictment? They mostly supported Lizzie before this. The Providence Journal suggested she should tell all after the trial, but she didn't feed the idle curiosity of this inquiring publication.

After spending a lot of money and time to cover it up, would anyone then tell all? And create another scandal?

[Remember your high school cliques?]

(Message last edited Feb-13th-03  2:25 PM.)

Maybe the other richer members made it quietly known they would prefer she worship elsewhere?
They could have had a *word* with Jubb or left it to the congregation as a whole , relying on their actions of distaste to drive Lizzie away?
I really don't know the answer to this.
Bill's book on the history of the Church, I believe, doesn't even mention Lizzie?
I thought he might reply...

I was looking in Rebello, pg. 168+ and before the trial there were upsurges of support for Lizzie from the memberships of the different organizations, some attached to the Church:
YPSCE, YWTU & WCTU, WAYMCA, MWSL who gave her sympathy and loyalty.
---------

Rebello, 264:

"And 'Me and Brownie's' Pastor," Fall River Daily Globe, December 22, 1893: 6.

"Since 'Lizzie Borden's pastor,' as he [Rev. Jubb] calls himself, is getting notoriety and dollars on a lecturing tour, one can hardly help wondering why Colonel Adams' pastor and Andrew J. Borden's pastor, and all the rest of the pastors do not go into the lecturing business." Providence Telegram.

"Lizzie Borden's Pastor Makes an Explanation to His Congregation About Advertising," Fall River Daily Globe, December 26, 1893: 8.

"Rev. W. Walker Jubb asked permission to address his congregation on a personal matter Sunday morning before he began his sermon. He said, 'That perhaps many people of sense would believe the newspaper reports which had been circulated to the effect that he advertised himself as the pastor of a certain individual. These reports he indignantly denied.

It is probable that some misunderstanding has arisen from the fact that Mr. Jubb recently preached in Baltimore, where he was referred to as the pastor of Lizzie Borden. His name is familiar to thousands owing to his connection with the famous murder case and it would not have been unnatural to bring that tragedy to the front announcing that he was to appear in some other city. At all events he was advertised in the manner described and the mistake occurred assuming he advertised himself.'  "

my impression is that lizzie wished to continue attending as though the murders never happened, and the church as a whole could not accept this.  a sort of "explanation" was expected, which never came about.  that's pretty obvious.

no one wanted a reputation of being her friend and supporter.  one point that should be made about this is that she apparently lacked true friends.

Her friends do seem to post-date the trial.  At least those that are in her will.  And Nance.

I'm reading a book right now about Dr. Sam Sheppard.
While he was still free, before the Inquest, his friends split as to their loyalties.  Then he started lying and when the truth came out he looked MUCH worse.
The family had been used to respect, yet now were receiving nasty mail & phone calls.  The *story* was an international scandal of huge proportions.  A quiet community was beseiged.
Neighbors were questioned for the slightest detail...sound familiar yet?
The victims were "misrepresented" and on slow news days, items were forged to rake the coals of public opinion against Dr. Sheppard..."conversations were stopped when they entered a store"...the neighborhood was embarrassed....

When I think about that, I put myself in Lizzie's shoes, I don't know how she withstood it!  The stopped conversations, the looks, the whispering behind hands as if she wouldn't see.  Can you imagine, guilty or innocent how trying that had to have been.  I would think after a few years of this she would have packed up her stuff and sold Maplecroft.  I wonder why she didn't move to Boston since she seemed to like to shop and eat there? 

I believe that Lizzie only attended church once after her acquittal. But there was an article in the Boston Advertiser dated June 5, 1894 which says otherwise. Rebello (page 290) under the heading "Life at Maplecroft":

"On Sundays, she frequently attends service at the church where she has so long been a member, and at such times, she and her sister occupy the old pew, where so many times she sat with her father. ... The Borden pew, No. 22, is upon the side aisle, slightly in the rear of the centre of the church and quite near one of the slender gilt pillars that support the roof. The pew is not always occupied, but Miss Borden is frequently there and joins devoutly but quietly in the services. She is not especially active, however, in church work and takes no part in the conduct of the Sunday school.

In short, Miss Borden's attitude since her acquittal has been such as might be expected from a well-poised, conscientious, Christian woman. She lives her life unobtrusively, neither affecting a retirement nor causing criticism by demonstrative action. ..."

The article contains a number of factual errors and the Fall River Globe, no friend of Lizzie, even wrote a rebuttal the same day.  The Globe referred to the errors as "trifling". Rebello mentions that the Globe objected to the Advertiser's description of the homes and class of people in the neighborhood and Miss Borden's use or non-use of a coachman but it does not mention her church attendance.

I guess this shows that the political or cultural bias of the owners will determine how the news is played, then or now.

I was just reviewing some of the older posts and noted the comment about Florence Brigham.  Under what circumstances did Ms. Brigham provide the info about Lizzie's return to Central Congregational?
I know a person or two who post here that have met and talked with the late Ms. Brigham, perhaps during visits to the FRHS.  Is that the case with you, Stuart?

Edisto: Yes, that's exactly right. I first met Mrs Brigham back in the early '80s when I made my first "pilgrimage" to Fall River. She was very gracious,and showed some friends and me through the first floor of the museum. She answered any questions I had, and spent quite a bit of time with us.
Through the years, I would occasionally write her with a question or two, and she always answered me promptly and cheerfully. My last trip to Fall River was 1995, and even though she was retired by then, she made a special point of coming down to the museum to see me, and spend some time with me.
During one of my two visits I asked her about Lizzie's going back to church after the trial and it was then that she told me that she thought that Lizzie had gone back a few times.
I'll never forget Mrs. Brigham's ability to humanize the Bordens--they were no longer people that I'd read about frequently on a page, but they were real, human. Two little things that really brought them to life: 1) Emma's post card to Mrs. Brigham's mother in law, sent from Scotland; and 2) Seeing a printed program that featured Lizzie in the cast of "The Tempest." It is the little things like that  that make the Borden Case live and breathe, and I will never forget Mrs. Brigam's ability to do that. I'm sure that she did it for many others as well.

Stuart, Lizzie was in the cast of "The Tempest"?  What part did she play and when was it in her life?  That is quite a find!  My brother wrote to Florence Brigham years ago when she was work for the FRHS, I think he still has the letter somewhere.  I would have loved to have spoken to her as you have. 

Wow, Stuart.  If you can't recall the role, do you remember if it was a male or female part (not very many female ones in The Tempest).  What kind of dramatic group was it?

I'm delighted to find out Lizzie did indeed have connections to Shakespeare!

Tina-Kate: As I recall, Lizzie played the role of "Miranda." I don't believe that the program was dated, but the style of the typeset used looked like it was late 1870s or 1880s. This throws a whole different light on Lizzie's theatergoing later in life, as well as her friendship with Nance O'Neill.

Thanks for the info, Stuart!  As I stated earlier, what a find! 

Incredible, Stuart...Lizzie had the female lead!!!

Thank you very much

Apparently there is a play based on this information that was performed at the New York Fringe Festival in 1998.  The play was called Lizzie Borden's Tempest.

http://www.curtainup.com/fringe98.html

The critic in the above article gives it two thumbs down, however.


(Message last edited Mar-3rd-03  3:04 PM.)

More & more interesting.

Thanks, Diana.

Thanks for the link, Diana.  So, it may not have been Lizzie in that part oh-so-many years ago.  I wonder what the review would have been like had it been written by a true Bordenite? 

My memory maybe playing tricks on me, as my last visit to Fall River was about eight years ago. But while don't think that Lizzie's full first name appeared in the program, I do think that her first initial was used. (I wish we had the date, so we could do some research a la Rebello!) It seems to me that it was a reading, not a staged production. Does anyone here get the FRHS Museum, and can you see if the program is still on display? Thanks in advance.

Ok, now I am really confused! Stuart you remember seeing a program at the FRHS that listed an "L. Borden" in the role of Miranda in a production/reading of The Tempest?

And this item is not in the paper nor in Rebello nor known before now? How very strange.

I am not doubting you, just wondering why no one has mentioned it before now. If true, if this is Lizbeth in the role, then we have some sort of find, don't you think? The review for the current show says "Miss Borden" but we all know how reporters get stuff wrong, especially in this case!

Who wants to call the FRHS and find out the skinny?

Fie!  A pox on these uncertainties!  Methinks my head doth implode! 

O wonder!  How many goodly creatures there are here!  How beauteous mankind is!  O brave new world/ That has such people in't.  (The Tempest, 5.1, 185-7)

We used to have a wonderful Himalayan seal point cat named CALABAN.  Stefani named him!
Ah!  Calaban I have wept for thee
Such sweet countenance
so primitive yet loving creature
form a link to our funnybone
everytime you fell off the kitchen counter
You sweet Klutz!

I love that!    My family used to have a cat that did that, except Snowball used to fall off the dishwasher.  He would sleep hanging half over the edge to begin with and the vibrations would knock him off. 

Stefani: Yes, I definitely remember the program being on display back in '95. I think that they were in the process of remodelling the kitchen or wherever they had the Borden collection a the moment. The program was on display in or near the Borden collection, the implication (to me, anyway) was that it had to do with Lizzie. I hope that somebody can check it out--I hope my memory doesn't prove as reliable as Victoria Lincoln's!

Oh you mean the B&B museum,  not the Fall River Historical Society, right? I mean you say it was during the remodeling of the kitchen . . .

No, it was the FRHS museum. They started out with the Borden exhibit in the kitchen, of all places. Then they remodelled it, much to Mrs. Brigham's delight, and moved the exhibit elsewhere. That was her favorite part of the museum, and considered it "hers."