1. "Orbs at 92 Second St."
Posted by Carol on Apr-22nd-03 at 3:30 PM

I was reading "How to Photograph the Paranormal--Identifying and Understanding Orbs, Vortexes, Ectoplasm and Creators of Crop Circles" by Lenore Sweet, PhD. and on page 125 came across a reference to the 92 Second St. B & B. The book is a wonderful description of her filming orbs of light over the years and a wealth of information on this type of activity.

She says a couple named Jim and Gretchen Costa stayed overnight at the house and as per their usual, took pictures inside. When the photos were developed they found one orb each at the murder sites of Andrew and Abby, one on the sofa and one on the floor upstairs in the guest room.

There is a reference to an article in Florida Today, Oct. 2001 called "Ghost Orbs Haunt Couple's Snapshots." And a webpage is listed
http://www.floridatoday.com/news/people/stories/2001/oct/peo10310lb.htm

The website article gives information on filming these kinds of energies or odd balls of lights and some explanations. Also are included comments from the CSICOP organization which denigrates any kind of paranormal activity. The reference to Lizzie's house is at the end of the piece.

If this information has already been posted maybe it will be new for those new to the forum. I don't remember seeing it before. 

Very interesting.  As someone who believes in ghosts as detectable energy (I saw some neat ghost photos recently, during a ghost walk in Key West), I'd certainly like to see those supposed orb pix from The House - doesn't it seem a little pat, though, to assume that the orbs would be obligingly posing near the sites of the Bordens' demises?

I'm not making fun, though - I have a very healthy respect for the metaphysical, and no one would be happier than I if we really had a technical breakthrough that enabled us to reliably communicate with the next level.  Or, maybe we're not meant to...

(Message last edited Apr-22nd-03  5:24 PM.)

I'm someone who wants to believe in ghosts, but I'm afraid I'll never believe unless I see one.  I tend toward the theory of "ghosts" as an allegory, or a symbol of a major event people cannot get over or forget.  My mum claims to have seen many.  I'm certainly a "feeler" & "communicator" & believe very strongly death is not the end but a progression.  I've had far too many experiences not to believe it.  We can communicate with "the next level", but I think it's a matter of the limits of our human-ness.  I don't quite buy into "mediums" or people who claim to be able to channel @ will.  In my experience, it's a totally spontaneous thing.

Can't say I totally believe in this orb stuff, but can't truly judge what I've never experienced.  As you say Bob, a bit too convenient to have manifestation of "energy" in those 2 spots.

I'll tell you 1 thing tho -- that sitting room was 1 of the most "negative vibe" places I've ever encountered.  I couldn't wait to get out of that room!

tina-kate?  tell us more about the negative vibe in the sitting room.

Cool!  Thanks, Carol.  I've seen orb photos before, not quite as eerie as seeing a person-shaped anomaly.  I've had some experiences of the ghostly kind before, I don't doubt that there is something there. 

I'm sensitive to vibes like Tina-Kate, I pick up stuff, sometimes its stuff I don't want to pick up on.  Which makes me wonder what kind of reaction I would have at 92 Second Street. 

Awful, gut-wrenching vibes.  Pain & frustration -- hopelessness.  Emotional pain.  If I could "see auras", it was definitely black.  For some reason, my head/eyes kept going toward the hearth.  I don't know if that was because it was important, or perhaps because I felt so uncomfortable in there it was a way of distancing myself -- having a point of focus to protect myself from being overwhelmed.  I remember thinking, "Get me out of here, come on, let's go to the next room..." & I don't think we were in there any longer than to hear her quick schpeel.

What I can't get over was how I felt absolutely nothing like that upstairs in the guest room.  No discomfort, no bad vibes @ all.  I was fine there -- altho a bit annoyed when the tour guide kept prodding me to "assume the position".  I almost lost my temper with her.

BTW, just thought I'd add (tho it's a bit embarrassing), every so often I have "Borden House" nightmares (have had them for yrs!)  Almost always they take place in that guest room.  So, why the real thing felt fine is something I've never been able to figure out.

(Message last edited Apr-22nd-03  10:58 PM.)

Wow!  That sounds horrible, Tina-Kate!  Can you turn this sense on and off at will, or do you just get these sensations wherever and whenever? 

The tour guide picked you and you only to lie on the floor like Abby was found, or, was everyone supposed to do this?  I don't think I would like that at all.

That sitting room was horrible.  No, definitely not "at will".  My whole Fall River trip seemed surreal.  I think pretty much everyone has had a "feeling" about a certain place.  This was very strong, however. 

I think the invitation to pretend to be Abby's body is part of the standard schpeel.  I found it revolting, altho apparently it's considered part of the experience of "doing the B&B".

Sounds like you are a genuine sensitive Tina-Kate.  It would have been very interesting indeed if you had taken a picture in the sitting room or guest room to see if there were any orbs in them. I was thinking about your not having much reaction in the guest room and maybe that's because (who really knows) there was so much more Borden household activity going on in the sitting room ever day and all members of the household didn't generally get into the guest room. You may have been picking up on more than just the murder of Andrew.  Seems like that guide you had was a little too overbearing with her charges, I wonder why didn't she lie down instead.

Bob, in the book she states that the she gets the best results of photos of orbs when using a digital camera, a flash, and at night.
Her book is filled with photos and lists of websites that study this phenomenon and have other photos.  She says that the more she expects to photograph them the oftener they appear.  As though this might be an interaction somehow between the photographer and the orb energy. She doesn't see the orb with her eyes but only after the shot has been taken. This is why she likes the digital, she can see right away if there is or isn't an orb in it and can save film that way. She distinquishes between the different kinds of light phenomenon and has photographed types of mists during deaths of people and animals. She also says perhaps the orbs control whether or not they allow anyone to photograph them.

Maybe the couple could be persuaded to show their photographs with the orbs and discuss what they felt, etc. about the whole experience in the LBQ.  Then others could try to see if they get the orbs in just those spots in the house.  The people in the article now live in Florida but had relative in the Fall River area. There have been other specters or odd circumstances at the 92 Second Street house, by the owners themselves and those presented in the Unsolved Mysteries television episode of 2001. Would make an interesting article for the LBQ.

That's interesting re the guest room vs sitting room Carol, I'd not thought of it that way; likely more confrontations there than in the guest room.  I can say without a doubt I was picking up more than just Andrew's murder, altho that was certainly the climax of everything.

Like Kat would say, "Sometimes I'm psychic, sometimes I'm not."  I've known 1 "true" psychic in my life (she never did it for $, but to help people).  She chose me as her acolyte & became kind of a 2nd mother to me.  However, I never did develop the same way she did.  She was someone who could do things like go up to a stranger & tell them all about their past, & even give names!  The thing that came naturally to me -- sounds a bit like that movie "The Sixth Sense" -- when people I know die, they contact me in different ways & also for me to pass on messages to other people who were important to them.  It's never happened the same way twice.  I know most people think that's a load of crap, (I would if I'd never gone thru it), but it's an intensely spiritual experience that has really influenced my beliefs & given me faith.  I feel very blessed to have that communication ability -- I'm sort of like a pipe

what do you get watching stefani's video of the sitting room?

probably a lot of talking/interaction went on in the sitting room (as opposed to the guest room).  isn't this where andrew would typically receive visitors to talk business?

Haulover, I'm not sure if yr asking me, or in general.  Unfortunately, I've never been able to see Stef's video.  My computer @ home can't handle it & my computer @ work couldn't do it either.

I wonder if Andrew would receive visitors there?  I'd think he'd do that sort of thing in the parlour.

While I've had some major experiences with almost frightening synchronicity, and some long-ago out-of-body travel*, I'm not sensitive in a mediumistic way, much to my disappointment.  I am able to relax in the sitting room, and enjoy, though I know that's a dicey word, the experience of being where you-know-what occurred.

Big ham that I am, I have placed myself on the guest room floor more than once - the first time I did try to pick up some vibes.

Speaking of dreams, I dreamt just last night (and no kidding!) that I was in a little book store in Greenwich Village and there were four or five new Borden books I'd never seen, including a different, oversized graphic novel.  I was in the process of trying to find the cash I knew I had in my wallet to buy them all when my hubby walked in, and I looked to him for help.

*I think one of these trips may have involved the Borden House, but I'm not able to say with any certainty.

  

(Message last edited Apr-24th-03  12:26 PM.)

Tina-Kate:

***BTW, just thought I'd add (tho it's a bit embarrassing), every so often I have "Borden House" nightmares (have had them for yrs!)  Almost always they take place in that guest room.  So, why the real thing felt fine is something I've never been able to figure out.***

one possibility is that you associate your image of the guest room with something within yourself you find troubling.  in which case the actual guest room has nothing to do with it. 

Haulover, are you sure you don't have a wee bit of the gleeming yourself?  That was so intimate & accurate I'm astounded.  You've hit on exactly what I am trying to figure out.

Bob G. or anyone here:
Do you know Len Rebello, or Dr. Hoffman or George Quigley?
In old issues of LBQ's I find they all are teachers?
Is that so?

I have been notified that these are teachers and now looking at the recent LBQ, add Jules Ryckebusch!  And Stefani!

tina-kate:

i like your word for it -- "gleeming."

to answer your question -- probably.  my thinking on it is this:  the subconscious needs images, symbols, etc. to keep itself sane.  this seems to be why dreams are necessary.  what you cannot understand or explain ends up "hidden" as it were in an image or a sound.  i often sense that i'm grappling with something like this within a dream.  when you wake, it's gone, but there is an inexpressible logic that happens in a dream state. 

you've hidden something in the guest room.  how do you get at it?  if you study the image, what things come to mind?  i don't know if you draw or paint, but what if you thought about how you would interpret what you see?

I find my most interesting/helpful dreams are nightmares.  I've been taught that if something comes thru as negative it's so you'll pay attention to it -- you should not be afraid of it, but look for the message.  Quite often I'm successful, & sometimes it turns out to be pretty humorous.

I have yet to determine what these particular ones mean, however.  They do seem to be important to me for some reason.  & that's probably why I'm here -- to sift thru a story that's remained in the background of my life for many years.

I like yr idea re drawing; a bit like art therapy   I'm a prose writer, which isn't always conducive to free-form expression, @ least not for me, because I find I do better when I structure a frame work, & that can often be quite limiting.

BTW, just wanted to say I very much admire yr poetry.  I've never been able to construct poems -- just the humorous or "ad copy" variety.  So, reading a poet is usually quite humbling for me.  To capture such beauty in brevity; that's quite a gift!

tina-kate:

thank you so much for your compliment about my poetry.  i don't even consider myself to be an actual poet.  i haven't been doing it for very long.  i'm working on a lizzie poem that's proving to be more difficult than i thought it would be.  i'd appreciate any ideas you have on the subject.

kat tells me you have a novel.  i want to read it.  tell me how to get it. email me here.  do so and i'll give you my personal email address.

Yes, Tina-Kate, I would be interested too! 

Thanks guys.  Pls check yr INBOX here.

For what it is worth I have heard that dreams are dreamed backwards but remembered forward.