1. "Headless Pigeons in the House"
Posted by haulover on Apr-17th-03 at 12:52 AM

lizzie's inquest:

A. No sir, he killed some pigeons in the barn last May or June.
Q. What with?
A. I don't know, but I thought he wrung their necks.
Q. What made you think so?
A. I think he said so.
Q. Did anything else make you think so?
A. All but three or four had their heads on, that is what made me think so.
Q. Did all of them come into the house?
A. I think so.
Q. Those that came into the house were all headless?
A. Two or three had them on.

i'm not sure what this is about.  why would dead birds be brought into the house?  did bridget cook them?  i have not heard of anyone eating pigeons.  did they?

Oh we had fun with this one!
Susan & Kimberly came up with pigeon recipes.
It's possible they were eaten.

As I read this tho, Lizzie got confusing again.  Is she saying that about 3 had heads and about 3 did not have heads?
If so, why didn't she say "1/2" ?
This must be a new language you've discovered haulover:
LIZZIESPEAK.

Let's see if I'm any good at it...

[Fake deposition]
Q.  Why would dead birds be brought into the house?
A.  They couldn't fly.

Q.  Did Bridget cook them?
A.  I was out in the barn and heard them call me to dinner but I didn't eat
     dinner that day.


PS:  I recognize that sometimes the questions are screwy, too.

(Message last edited Apr-17th-03  3:13 AM.)

People do indeed eat pigeons.  (The flesh of young pigeons is called "squab.")  It's considered quite a delicacy in some cultures.  I've posted previously that my father raised racing pigeons when I was a child, and he sold off the surplus young ones to be eaten.  We also had them on our table at home, but I didn't care for them at all.  They're all dark meat, and I prefer white.

Some people favor dark meat because it is tastier than white. Could it also have more vitamins and fat? In older times, walking everywhere, no central heating, fat was prized ('the fatted calf').

A. All but three or four had their heads on, that is what made me think so.
A. Two or three had them on.

i have yet another interpretation of this example of lizziespeak:

all but three or four had their heads on -- these three or four were headless.

only two or three had heads -- the rest were headless.

haha!  Is that clear enough?

perhaps in that part of the country at that time, it was not uncommon to eat pigeons.  i was raised in the south.  i have eaten turkeys that were hunted and killed, and i remember sometimes deer was around.  but i had never heard of pigeon-eating.

recipes?  what about a pigeon casserole?  with onions and mushrooms, white wine, and pears?


Q. Miss Borden, did Bridget prepare pigeons for breakfast that morning?
A. I never eat breakfast.
Q. That is not my question.  Did she prepare pigeons for breakfast?  If you do not know what she prepared, you may say so.
A. I think she did once some time ago, but i don't know when it was.
Q. Did you partake of the pigeon dish?
A. I don't know but that I ate a pear and part of a pigeon.
Q. Miss Borden, you told me you never eat breakfast.
A. I don't think the pigeon I tried was breakfast; I think it was dinner.
Q. You understand, do you not, that I am asking you specifically about that fateful morning?
A. I did not know it was pigeon.
Q. Are you now saying you did eat breakfast the morning of the murders?
A. I never eat a regular breakfast.  I don't know that I did not try the dish Maggie prepared, but I did not think it was pigeon.  Had I known, I shouldn't have eaten any, because I do not eat pigeons if I know they are pigeons.  I keep pigeons as pets.
Q. I understood you to say that you knew you had eaten pigeons before.
A. I told you yesterday I don't eat pigeons.  I mean that I may have tasted such a dish before when they were talking about pigeons.  I think someone said later they were pigeons.
Q. Miss Borden, did you or did you not have breakfast on the morning of the murders?
A. I remember having tea in the dining room, but I never knew a pigeon dish was served until someone said so later.

just having a little fun.............ha

Wow, Haulover!  That was good, it was so "Lizzie-speak"!  I tried to do a search to find the weird recipes, but, couldn't find them.  Hmmmmm. 

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive203/StayTea/STpigeonpie.htm


1. "PIGEON PIE ANYONE?"
Posted by Kat on Aug-18th-02 at 7:50 AM


Housekeeping In Old Virginia, reprint from 1879, John P. Morton and Co, originally edited by M.C. Tyree, pgs. 112-3:

To Broil Pigeons

"Pigeons may be broiled the same as chickens, only cover the breast with slices of bacon.  When nearly done, remove the bacon, dredge with flour and baste with butter.  They will be done in half an hour."


Stewed Pigeons

"The pigeons must be seasoned with pepper, salt, cloves, mace and sweet herbs.  Wrap the seasoning up in a piece of butter and put it in the pigeon.  Then tie up the neck and vest and half roast the pigeons.  Then put them in a stewpan with a quart of good gravy, a little white wine, some pickled mushrooms, a few peppercorns, three or four blades of mace, a bit of lemon peel, a bit of onion and a bunch of sweet herbs.  Stew until done, then thicken with butter and yolks of eggs.  Garnish with lemon."


Pigeon Pie

"Take six young pigeons.  After they are drawn, trussed, and singed, stuff them with the chopped livers mixed with parsley, salt, pepper, and a small piece of butter.  Cover the bottom of the dish with rather small pieces of beef.  On the beef, place a thin layer of chopped parsley and mushrooms, seasoned with pepper and salt.  Over this place the pigeons, between each putting the yolk of a hard-boiled egg.  Add some brown sauce or gravy.  Cover with puff paste and bake the pie for an hour and a half.
Mrs. C.C." 

Need a recipe for barbequed squirrel?  Page 108.

Actually, I made it myself!





(Message last edited Apr-18th-03  12:28 AM.)

Thanks for finding all that, Kimberly!    I can't believe I actually was getting hungry reading them.  I'm probably thinking of chicken. 

i know what you mean, susan.  i was thinking about pigeon au vin.

i saw all that in the archives today.  i couldn't get on the forum so i spent some time there.  i couldn't believe how far all that went and how creative it got.

Great "Lizziespeak", haulover!

And Stef, that pie is hilarious!

Yes Stef LOVES her pie!

She said today "Everytime I see that it cracks me up!"

She is just so tickled about her pie!

I remembered where the pigeon recipes were because it was
always so funny to read -- I never did find the recipes
for blackbirds -- but I remember them cooking them up in
the Little House on the Prairie books. Must be a recipe
somewhere -- I guess blackbirds then & farm raised pigeons
now aren't the dirty birds they are running wild.

And I also couldn't get into the forum all day -- up until
about 6 pm. Arborwood was down too. Glad to know it wasn't
just my old computer tearing up.

When the forum came back up around 7:30 I posted a note in the moderator's forum on Arborwood and was told that yes, they have had problems this week and they hope they are resolved soon. That is all that I know. At least we know they know.

tina-kate, your photo makes me think of an actress in the 50s.  (that's a compliment)

i've pored over the inquest so much i've got lizziespeak lodged in my brain somewhere.  it could make a fun parlor game, though i'm not sure how to set it up for playing.

as kimberly said, i just wanted to "touch base" about it being down.  it's bound to happen sometimes.  and glad to know i'm not messed up on my end.

The recipe for "4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie" may refer to the ortolan a French delicacy than it eaten whole, beaks and legs.
You can look it up.

If you give me the first line I can look it up.
I have an Annotated Mother Goose.

I searched for blackbird recipes -- couldn't find a single one.

Do you know the first line?
Because I think the King meant for those birds to fly out of the pie alive, in the dark, to create a sensation.
Not cooked at all.

Its Sing a Song of Sixpence, a pocket full of rye, 4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie......

Thanks.

The Annotated Mother Goose, Baring-Gould, Clarkson N. Potter, New York, 1962, pg. 26 & 27:

"According to Iona and Peter Opie, the editors of The Oxford Dictionary of Nursey Rhymes, an Italian cookbook of 1549, translated into English in 1598, actually contains a receipe 'to make pies so that birds may be alive in them and flie out when it is cut up.'  They continue:  'This dish is further referred to (1723) by John Nott, cook to the Duke of Bolton, as a practice of  former days, the purpose of the birds being to put out the candles and so cause a "diverting Hurley-Burley amongst the Guests in the Dark." ' "

What an odd thing to do!  I could only see this being fun or effective at a dinner on Halloween, why freak out your guests? 

So what about "baked Alaska", or is that unknown today?

I've never had Baked Alaska, but, have heard of it.  Isn't it a flaming dessert along the lines of Bananas Flambe or Cherries Jubilee? 

This sounds like the bored and jaded aristocracy, looking for more fun

i think it's baked with ice cream inside. i'm not sure how it works.

kat:

yeah, don't we wish?

Yes, I found a recipe for Baked Alaska, ice cream on cake or in a pie shell with baked meringue on top.  I guess its supposed to resemble an igloo?  No flame.  Heres a link to the recipe if anyones interested:
http://www.rainforestwebs.com/recipes/bakedak.html

There is a similar dessert that I've had since I've moved west, Mexican ice cream.  Its a ball of vanilla ice cream with some sort of coating that is cinnamony and it is deep fried.  Believe it or not, the ice cream is still frozen inside!