Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Second Street Second-Hand Shop
Topic Name: buyer beware!

1. "buyer beware!"
Posted by Stefani on Feb-2nd-03 at 5:52 PM

I happen to notice that  a certain seller on eBay offers Lizzie Borden items that are touted as RARE and UNIQUE, using such phansical phrases. Please beware of these assertions. The Lizzie fan that most often makes it appearance is not unique as evidenced by the weekly sales of this item. Before you waste your money, ask us here. I bet some of us have purchased these things and could let you know how we like the item and if it is worth your time and money.


2. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by stuart on Feb-2nd-03 at 10:52 PM
In response to Message #1.

Hi Stefani: Being relatively new here, I notice that there is a bit of antagonism towards Phaye, but I don't know any of the background of it. I must say that I have dealt with her on eBay, as well as on her discussion board, and she was always friendly and courteous to me. I don't want to disturb sleeping dogs, but could someone perhaps fill me in a bit on the history here? Thanks very much.


3. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by kimberly on Feb-2nd-03 at 10:57 PM
In response to Message #2.

I know the question wasn't directed at me, BUT, you should really read some of the stuff that is said in the Privy on this subject & you will see why.


4. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Stefani on Feb-3rd-03 at 12:00 AM
In response to Message #2.

My comments were meant as a heads up to those who stop by here for information regarding the purchasing of items related to the case. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and may do exactly as they please in regards to this seller. I just felt it my obligation to warn people to be careful.

I am glad you had a pleasant experience with her.

By the way, what did you buy from her?


5. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Edisto on Feb-3rd-03 at 2:27 PM
In response to Message #2.

When I was new to eBay, I was buying lots of Lizzie Borden items, and I bought several from this seller.  My first few experiences were pleasant enough.  Then I paid over $100 for a copy of the trial transcript that turned out to be missing quite a few pages.  I emailed her about it, and my email was ignored.  I was finally able to get the missing pages from a couple of thoughtful Borden buffs.  About the same time, I ordered another item from her (not via eBay), and I received something different from what I had ordered.  The item I received was a duplicate of something I already had.  Since I'd begun having bad experiences with her, I decided not to bid on her auctions or order from her any more and to just forget about the mistake and give the duplicate item to a friend.  Then the seller contacted me by email and asked if I'd gotten the item.  I told her I'd gotten AN item, but not the one I ordered.  According to her, she had sent my item to the winner of an eBay auction, who hadn't yet sent payment!  When I described the mix-up on my end to her, she insisted it couldn't have happened that way, even though she had already admitted to having mixed up the packages!  After that, she began "flaming" me on a board to which we both belonged.  I wasn't singled out for that honor; she flamed others too.  Once she became enraged because I referred to her as a "Borden expert."  Most people would hardly consider that an insult.  She also posted bizarre pictures of a bloody nude doll or action figure on the board, one of whose members was a very young teenager.  Largely because of her and another person with a similar personality, that board collapsed and is no more.  The easiest way to get to know this seller is to read her feedback comments, paying special attention to what she herself writes.  What's not to like?


6. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by kimberly on Feb-3rd-03 at 3:28 PM
In response to Message #5.

I think the fact so much of other people's copyrighted
work ends up for sale on those auctions shows what a person
is really like. It is STEALING.


7. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by stuart on Feb-3rd-03 at 8:06 PM
In response to Message #4.

As I recall, I bought a copy of Lizzie's will from her, as well as some articles on Emma, and a video on the Second Street house. As I said, I wasn't trying to stir the pot, I was just curious. Oh well, I guess it just takes all kinds to fill the globe!


8. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by zoe219 on Feb-8th-03 at 3:48 PM
In response to Message #7.

I too bought from her.  Don't feel that I got taken or anything.  I got the fan & the "Cat's Meow figurine of the Borden house".  Wanted both of the items to decorate w/.  Didn't figure the fan was TO rare, since I'd seen it being sold more than once.  Would be cautious abt buying much else,tho for fear of promoting plagarism <sp?  Have a great day all.


9. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by augusta on Feb-24th-03 at 10:19 AM
In response to Message #8.

Kimberly is right.  Things have been stolen and sold by this person.  I bought a disk from her on eBay not long ago and she refused to sell it to me.  She told eBay that I had bought things from her before and given them to another person to steal!  That is a total lie.  I have no idea where she was coming from.  I had bought a few things from her a long, long time ago and they were for my own personal use.  And, as with others, our transactions were smooth and friendly.  I don't know what happened to her, but she's turned into one nasty old woman.


10. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Tom on Feb-24th-03 at 11:58 AM
In response to Message #9.

Noticed that this seller is selling 5 CD's on ebay at the same time of the images she stole ,& claiming they are still her's & copyrighted,she should be reported again to ebay as that is pretty arrogant,not nice at all

Tom


11. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by augusta on Feb-24th-03 at 10:22 PM
In response to Message #10.

Really.  I mean, what does it take??? 


12. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by charlie on Feb-25th-03 at 11:28 AM
In response to Message #11.

Just a quick note about copyrighted material. Any work, whether artistic or written, is copyrighted by the author/artist whether it is a recorded copyright or not. It is the author's/artist's property and cannot be used without permission. That is the law.

However, it is the responsibility of the copyright holder to protect his/her works. To do such, that person must be willing and able to go through the legal process. That means usually (1) Send a letter to the party infringing on the copyright stating that he/she is in violation of the law and that legal steps will be taken if the offener continues to use such copyrighted material. (2) If the copyright continues to be violated, a strongly worded letter from an attorney should follow. (3) Finally, the copyright holder should file a lawsuit to stop the offening party from further use of the copyrighted material and for damages.

That being said, there seems little one can do in the case mentioned in this thread. It would be too costly to proceed with legal action and the chance of recovering any damages would be slim. I suspect the party in question here knows that and will continue her ways, trying to profit from the works of others, selling pirated videos and anything else she can get her hands on.

In this case it's more of a moral issue. As my son would say, this person is a "bottom dweller".


13. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Susan on Feb-25th-03 at 9:13 PM
In response to Message #12.

Hi, Charlie.  Thanks for the info and welcome to the forum! 


14. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Kat on Feb-26th-03 at 3:19 AM
In response to Message #12.

Hi Charlie!
Come on Up And Post Sometime!
You KNOW you'll get a bunch of axe-murder questions!

Ladies & Gents, Charlie is an axe/hatchet murder expert....


15. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Susan on Feb-26th-03 at 3:42 AM
In response to Message #14.

Really?  Oh, Charlie.....come out, come out, wherever you are. 


16. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by charlie on Feb-26th-03 at 10:12 AM
In response to Message #15.

Oh come on now!  I'm an axe murder expert? I think not. I just check in on this place every so often to see how things are going. While I'm here however, I'll tell you a little story. It's from a newspaper clipping from the 1890s. I don't have it handy but I know it well.

When I stayed at the B&B, our good friend and author Leonard Rebello showed up to promote his book. I bought a copy and we chatted a bit. I asked him his opinion as to who killed the Bordens. His theory at the time was that Lizzie hid the hatchet under her dress until she was able to get rid of it. That theory, like many, I thought was too far fetched. (Don't take it personally Len, I feel that way about most Borden theories)

Later though, I stumbled upon a case in the 1890s where a white woman had been sexually assaulted by a black man. The man was captured and held for trial. At the trial the woman took the stand and was asked to identify her attacker. She pointed to the defendent and said, "That him, that's the rascal!"

With that, she sprang from the wittness stand and pulled a hatchet from under her dress and struck the man on the head. The hatchet was taken away from her and she failed to kill the defendent, but she did "split his head open". Maybe he later died, I don't know. Medical science being what it was at the time, it's probably quite likely.

Anyway, that is probably the only know case in which a woman hid such a weapon under her dress. It doesn't prove anything regarding the Borden case but it does show that it is possible and that the thought did occur to at least one person back then.

By the way, here is a silly little web site I cooked up a while ago, complete with various errors that I never bothered to correct.

http://hometown.aol.com/wtn1975/page1.html



17. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by harry on Feb-26th-03 at 10:50 AM
In response to Message #16.

I believe it was Radin who thought Bridget may have had the the hatchet beneath her dress when she went on one of her trips. It was said that she was limping and maybe that was caused by the hatchet.

Lizzie did lie down briefly at least on the couch in the dining room. Mrs. Churchill was questioned by Robinson at the trial (p366+) as to whether there was anything unusual about the way she lay. He was, however, trying to disprove any theory about her wearing a double dress.

I don't think it an impossible idea either. Those dresses were fairly roomy and if the head of the hatchet were strapped on the inside of her leg it would not be noticeable.  If it was below the knew it may not even interfere with her walking.


18. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Susan on Feb-26th-03 at 11:38 AM
In response to Message #16.

Thanks for the story, Charlie.  I really liked your site, it has 2 of my favorite things on there, Lizzie and Disney's Haunted Mansion! 

I was thinking, it may be farfetched, but, women's dresses of the time period had pockets.  How deep, I don't know?  I was thinking a pocket in those voluminous skirts, who would notice if you were carrying something for a bit?  It might cause limping too having a heavy hatchet bumping against your leg like that, trying not to get cut by it.  Hmmm. 


19. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Tom on Feb-26th-03 at 1:31 PM
In response to Message #11.

Hummmmmm,one person has bought 4 of the 5 CD/TAPE's that were being listed by guess who,isn't that a bit odd,what would one do with so many of them??

Tom


20. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by harry on Feb-26th-03 at 2:29 PM
In response to Message #19.

Tom, check your forum mailbox.


21. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Kat on Feb-26th-03 at 10:08 PM
In response to Message #16.

Oh this is great, Charlie!  Thanks for the gorystory!
  And you do too know how many women killed their *parents* with a hatchet...
Is it, like, none?


22. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by rays on Feb-27th-03 at 1:18 PM
In response to Message #21.

Actually, the crime of parricide is very rare in this country. And elsewhere?


23. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by Tom on Mar-3rd-03 at 10:48 AM
In response to Message #22.

Here she goes again with CD plagerism ,wonder why she only listed it once ,last time it was 5 of them all at the same time.

Tom


24. "Re: buyer beware!"
Posted by charlie on Mar-17th-03 at 10:29 PM
In response to Message #1.

Thou shall not use Lizzie's name in vain. Well, maybe just once in a while. Couldn't help it. The devil made me do it.

(Message last edited Mar-18th-03  12:00 AM.)


25. "COOL SELLER"
Posted by Kat on Mar-18th-03 at 12:12 AM
In response to Message #24.

That is cool, Charlie!
She looks to be wearing DENIM?
Wish you could *stick* around!

Smart of you to put your stuff here!



 

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