1. "PBS "Manor House""
Posted by Tina-Kate on Apr-29th-03 at 12:19 AM

Just discovered PBS is running 2 British series on Monday nights, both well worth watching.

"Manor House" is a reality show along the lines of "1900 House" with approx 20 volunteers experiencing life circa 1905 in a Scottish manor.  "Upstairs Downstairs" with real people.  The upstairs have to deal with knowing the minutiae of ettiquette & upward mobility.  The servants juggle protocol & very hard work.  Even the ins & outs of how each person on each of the varied levels of "position" within the household is fraught with pitfalls.

An even better confection is "Treats from the Edwardian Country House" which explores the nicer side of Edwardian living; from the ritualistic shave from the professional barber to the many uses for honey & beeswax to making treats like champagne gelatin. 

Oooo, I had seen the commercials for that, but, didn't catch the time it was on.  Looks very interesting, will have to check my local guide for the time.  Thanks for reminding me! 

Yr welcome Susan.  Tonight, both shows had double episodes, 8-9 PM & 9-10 PM for "Manor House" then 10-10:30 & 10:30-11 PM for "Treats".  This was probably a "Premiere" night, so likely the times will change as the series go on.

Also, I pick up PBS via NY/Boston...so times & programming may differ on the west coast or between PBS carriers.

I found out they're running both series in their entirety like a marathon, continuing tonite & tomorrow (Tues & Wed) @ the same times (Eastern) I listed in the previous post.

Oh, thank you, Tina-Kate.  I missed out on both showings last night, gotta set that VCR tonight. 

I saw some Manor House tonight from about 9:18 p.m.  Which would be 18 minutes into the second hour.
It was just when the lady of the house, and her personal maid were holding up her underwear, a garmet she called crotchless bloomers and the chemise thing.
She had just been laced into her corset.
She said it was such an odd feeling to be so rigid and covered and laced up on top, but  there was *movement* and *air* under her skirt.  [the *air* comment was from her maid]
Those undergarmets were practically sheer when she held them up.  There was an all in one item that actually tied.
She described a kind of bloomer also that had the hatch in the back, to unbutton and let down, like in long-johns.

All the servants are complaining. 
And the male sevents are really hard to understand.  I think they're speaking another language!  Oh and they are being *Bleeped* a lot.

The third hour is on now.

Oh, I just have devoured every single minute of all of this.  I'm so crazy for anything fin-de-siecle.

Tonite on the "Treats from the Edwardian Country House", the host put together a dinner party.  And guess what the entree was?  MUTTON!  He spread it with a lovely garlicky filling & did it as a rolled joint.  It looked absolutely gorgeous!

"Manor House" was quite an education to all those people involved, I'm sure.  I feel esp sorry for the servants because it's very de-humanizing being forced backward into all those rigid rules with very little freedom (if any at all).

I'm not having a problem understanding anyone (but I have the advantage of those roots).  The butler is a Scot, so I can see how he might be a bit hard to understand.

Did anyone see the part where they brought in an elderly lady, who had been a housemaid there in her youth?  I thought that part was really lovely & I'm sure she enjoyed passing on her stories as much as the people enjoyed asking her questions & hearing her memories.

Yes, got to watch all of the Manor house, but, no Treats show.  This show has really opened my eyes on what life must have been like for our Bridget working for the Bordens and really how easy she had it compared to those poor people.

Watching how the poor sister, Miss Avril, basically had no leg to stand on and was dependent on her sister's husband made me think of Emma and the half-life she too had.

Don't get me wrong, loved the show, I just had thoughts of our Borden family creeping into my head from time to time. 

Was it 2 one hour shows?  Because the 3rd installment turned out to be the first.
It started here at 8 and was on until 11 and the 10 to 11 spot seemed to be a repeat.

The butler was fine.  Scotch I can figure out.  Must be my bit o' Scotch in me.
It was a Liverpool accent I believe, of one or two of the younger men.  They spoke very fast and dropped the voice in odd places.
I liked the butler the best, as most authentic, but I didn't see the part with the older retired servant.

It sounds like it's being aired differently in different areas.  I guess each station does it's own programming.  The PBS I get, the station is out of Buffalo, NY (WBEN) & every so often it switches to broadcast from WGBH Boston.  I've been getting 2 1-hour shows per night, followed by 2 1/2-hr shows of the "Treats".  It's too bad this 2nd show doesn't seem to be getting aired everywhere, as it's kind of a companion piece, using shots from "Manor House" to illustrate certain things.

Yeah, the butler is great.  He seems to be the only 1 who really knows what it was all about (in 1 show he said his grandfather used to be a butler) & being the head of the staff, he keeps it all "grounded" & provides the reality check of how things that are happening on the show would never have been tolerated back then, etc.  This poor man isn't having a great time with it either -- even tho he's really trying hard to do his best.

1 thing that really hits home with me is how much that time really was "a Man's World".  The "Sir John" is having the time of his life, better than anyone else.  He seems to have easily slipped into the role of Patriarch.  Easy to see how men in his position would have been tyrants, able to get away with just about anything as "King of the Castle".

Good point Susan, re Avril, the resident dependent single woman & how she relates to Lizzie & Emma.  & yeah...Bridget sure did have it easier than most.  I'm thinking perhaps servants in America may have had it easier in general, as even then they were perhaps not as rigid as the Brits.  Also, likely a major difference in working for a middle class family as opposed to a big house with a large staff.

I loved watching all the details of things that went on, like how the Hall Boy had to help with the stove in the kitchen, poking in at the fire, keeping it burning hot.  Those are the kinds of things I pictured our Bridget doing, every single day, rain or shine.

There were also those stories that old servant told and how physical and sexual abuse were just all part of the job, how awful.

When Miss Avril took a break from the show already and they said that many women of the time needed to get away from it all and were sent to health spas, I thought of Lizzie and her trip to Europe.  Do you think it was for sort of the same thing, Lizzie just couldn't take the Victorian life anymore? 

The series is wonderful.  Here is is being broadcast in three parts each is a Manor House episode, each episode has a different title.

On another link here we were discussing menstruation. In last night's episode they showed a sanitary device of the time, a kind of white fabric type belt with the cloths attached.  The housekeeper kept track of the women worker's periods so she would know if any one of them was sneaking around.

The master of the house could have been not only an Edwardian patriarch but his thinking to me fits the mold of a southern plantation slave holder in the pre-civil war south. His wife is either blind, although she did say he was an autocrat, or just makes allowances as she seems so much more caring. Maybe by the end of the show she might just decide to leave him in Edwardian England.

Am not sure how much I would compare this English country manor of l906 I think it was, with the American Fall River of 1892.  The first is Edwardian England and the Borden murder case was still in the Victorian America period.  And I am not convinced that Andrew, even as a wealthy businessman, would have ascribed to the attitudes of Edwardian times, the lavish living which was required etc. The Borden's didn't seem to treat Bridget like the Edwardian servants in a Manor House either. They did recognize and speak with her every day and she was the only house servant.  But one thing I did think was consistent was that the masters and family didn't really take any notice of the under servants, and I am wondering if this was consistent over times and that is why Lizzie didn't know what Bridget was really and didn't pay attention to her so she could tell the police a consistent timeline of activities on Aug. 4th.

It seems Lizzie & Emma had some kind of problem with Bridget, which probably came from Abby having hired her & being mistress over her...Bridget was a kind of ally to Abby.  The fact they called her "Maggie" (either generically or in ref to a former housekeeper) instead of her real name seems to imply they felt "above" her...ignoring her given name.  However, reports of servants Lizzie had on her own...they all seemed to be quite happy in her employ.  Of course, there's the big mystery over the coachman firing/re-hiring.

I haven't decided whether "Sir John" is merely sticking to the role-playing (doing things like refusing to talk to junior staff) or maybe is simply taking advantage of it as a fantasy where he can be as snobbish, chauvanistic & ill-mannered as he wants to be & be allowed to get away with it.  I rather suspect it's the latter.

I was thinking about Bridget's relationship to the household and realized that she was employed after the affair about the property being bought by Andrew and given to Abby for her half-sister. So Bridget didn't know what the relationship between the sisters and Abby was like before that big problem. It would be interesting to know who the Borden's employed before Bridget and why she left. I think you are right about Bridget being in Abby's employ as she had charge of her, whereas in the French St. house Lizzie had control of the servants. So that might have affected the relationships.

After watching the last episode of Manor House last night I think the Master was so caught up in his role which he deeply relished because in that hierarchy he came out on top, that he was crying at the end not because he felt so deeply for the servants but because he was so sad his role had to end.  I deeply admired the cook through it all, a very original & unique fellow, highly skilled but he was surely vexed at not being able to prepare real Edwardian dishes (which was what he signed on to do) because the Master didn't want to eat those dishes. He had the Master pegged.