Forum Title: LIZZIE BORDEN SOCIETY
Topic Area: Life in Victorian America
Topic Name: Thanks, I'll Stand

1. "Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by augusta on Mar-15th-03 at 8:41 PM

Here is a picture I came across at victorians.org.  Didn't they think of putting a seat on it?  Or did the seat come off over time?


2. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Kat on Mar-16th-03 at 5:41 AM
In response to Message #1.

Do you suppose people stood over it?
Bloomers wouldn't allow that, would they?
Did girls wear underwear back then?  Real panty type, well, panties?
{I hope there's not gonna be pictures....)


3. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Mar-16th-03 at 1:54 PM
In response to Message #2.


You called?

Edisto can probably answer that question better than I can, but, my understanding of women's drawers or bloomers of the time was that they were split crotched.  Can you imagine hiking up all those skirts and petticoats just to have to take those off to use the facilities?  Yikes.  Anyhoo, here are a couple of pics.

 

From this wonderful site; Gabbie's Bloomers
http://www.gabbiesbloomers.com/VintageBloomers.html

Augusta, I would imagine that that flush privy was like a chamber pot, no seat to speak of, just my opinion. 

(Message last edited Mar-16th-03  1:54 PM.)


4. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by harry on Mar-16th-03 at 2:05 PM
In response to Message #1.

Ah, no seat to have to put down!


5. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by kimberly on Mar-16th-03 at 2:24 PM
In response to Message #1.

Are chamberpots to hover over? Does anyone know how they
were actually used? It seems like those bulky skirts &
petticoats would have been hard to keep off the floor --
and for that matter -- out of the pot.


6. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Mar-16th-03 at 3:27 PM
In response to Message #5.

Well, I can tell you the one year I went out as Lizzie on Halloween I had problems with that!  Thats alot of material to have to pick up and hold, especially since the bulk of it tends to be in the back of the skirt.

Chamberpots, I have no idea?  I have seen some antique potty chairs before where the chamberpot was slid into and under it.  Kind of like this pic here.  I wonder if Lizzie had a potty chair in her room or just the chamberpot?


7. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Kat on Mar-16th-03 at 9:40 PM
In response to Message #2.

I had heard of the split crotch but I thought it was an "old wives tale".  Not that you're an "old Wive"...
Thanks for the pictures!
Thanks for the info.
So girlz CAN "go" standing up?.....


8. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by augusta on Mar-21st-03 at 9:50 AM
In response to Message #7.

Girls can go standing up if you're desperate.  If you've seen the PBS series on the families that lived like it was 1800's Montana, the two rich teenage girls said they taught themselves to do it.  Uh, it has to do with, um, aiming. 


9. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Edisto on Mar-23rd-03 at 5:56 PM
In response to Message #3.

I missed this entire thread somehow.  Not surprising, given what's been going on in my life recently.  I see split-crotch bloomers for sale at auctions and antique shows quite often.  I don't wear them with period attire because they're well, drafty...


10. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Edisto on Mar-23rd-03 at 6:03 PM
In response to Message #2.

Back about 25 or so years ago, some plumbing genius decided what women needed was a "female urinal."  Somebody designed one that had the usual roundish bowl, but a narrow "trench" (for want of a better word) attached to the front of it.  The woman was supposed to straddle this narrow part and use it standing up.  The person who designed it had no inkling what kind of underwear women wear.  If one pulled down one's panties and pantyhose, they would be down around one's knees, and one couldn't straddle anything, much less a female urinal.  In most cases, this new invention was placed in one of the stalls, and everyrone avoided it like the plague.  So a few months later, somebody tore it out and reinstalled the old convenience.  I wonder what happened to all those female urinals.  They might make nice planters.

Apparently the idea is still around: http://www.femaleurinal.com/factsandfables.html


(Message last edited Mar-23rd-03  6:11 PM.)


11. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by augusta on Mar-24th-03 at 2:43 AM
In response to Message #10.

That was a good link, Edisto.  Apparently the Victorian ladies did stand.  They said we can aim further than guys, and that the younger ladies seem to have better control to do so. 


12. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Mar-24th-03 at 11:39 AM
In response to Message #11.

I'd be game to try it out, the female urinal.  I'm tired of all the things they refer to in that article, the long lines, the filth, etc.  But, somehow I still can't see myself in a row with other women up against a wall like men do. 


13. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by augusta on Mar-24th-03 at 2:00 PM
In response to Message #12.

Right, I'd still need some privacy.  Maybe we could practice that in the stall.  It beats practicing at home!  (I know, I'm terrible at times...)  But the germs in those places is enough of an incentive to make me want to try.  My gynecologist told me you certainly can get diseases off toilet seats. 

Then there's the germs on the flusher (I always flush with my foot).  But then there's the germs on the door latch, the sink, the paper towel dispenser or blower and the door to the restroom.  I always carry a tube of waterless anti-bacterial gel and Wet Ones in the car, and whenever we stop at a public restroom I pass them around to the fam once we're out of the building. 

If we're using a rest area, it usually means we're on vacation.  And headed toward a hotel for the night.  You know how sanitary those are!!


14. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Mar-24th-03 at 10:31 PM
In response to Message #13.

Somehow the thought of rows of stalls with women's feet in heels pointing away from the stall doors just cracks me up! 

I guess as funny as we find it now, this may become a reality in the future, what do we do then?

I'm with you, Augusta, I touch as little as possible in public bathrooms.  Sometimes if you time it right, someone will be coming in or already going out the door and you don't have to touch the handle then. 


15. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by kimberly on Mar-24th-03 at 10:54 PM
In response to Message #14.

The Sanitary Way to Use a Public Restroom:
1. Flush
2. Towel off seat with large bundle of toilet paper
3. Line seat with toilet paper (this usually ends up in the
  floor or else it is hanging out the back of your pants,
  sometimes it is dragged along on the bottom of your shoe)
4. Go
5. Flush with foot
6. Turn faucet on with one finger
7. Wash hands
8. Get paper towel to turn faucet off
9. Dry hands
10. Touch door handle going out -- this causes an unwashed
  feeling & have to use baby whipes that are kept in car for
  this situation


16. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Kat on Mar-24th-03 at 11:29 PM
In response to Message #15.

This discussion should be in the Privy.


17. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Mar-25th-03 at 11:45 AM
In response to Message #16.

  Yes, privy discussion should be done in the privy.  Could you imagine the shock of the Victorians that we are discussing such a delicate subject, or would that be indelicate

(Message last edited Mar-25th-03  11:46 AM.)


18. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by harry on Mar-25th-03 at 11:59 AM
In response to Message #17.

Emma would have had the vapors!


19. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Kashesan on Mar-25th-03 at 1:39 PM
In response to Message #12.

I'll provide the cheap domestic beer-then watch out!


20. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Mar-25th-03 at 10:54 PM
In response to Message #19.

Oooo, cheap domestic beer, we will really need those female urinals! 


21. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by kimberly on Mar-26th-03 at 12:03 AM
In response to Message #16.

Personally, I think the Victorian's couldn't have been all that
prissy about bathroom habits -- they did it in a pot they kept
under the bed. Andrew was said to have poured his chamber pot
or slop pail outside -- that is very indelicate. To make it
totally public -- I couldn't imagine doing something like that.


22. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Kat on Mar-26th-03 at 3:35 AM
In response to Message #21.

A brother in California had a problem with coyotes when his dog was in heat.  He lived near some foothills.  He was told by his wife to go pee around the perimeter of the property fence to discourage foraging scavengers.  He didn't really know why, but being a former hippy, he didn't ask questions, just did what came naturally.
It did work from what I heard.  He mentioned it to me and I was aware of the theory which he thought was odd, since he wasn't.  He just did what the lady said.


23. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Mar-26th-03 at 11:19 AM
In response to Message #22.

A friend of mine back in Arizona who happens to be Navajo went camping with another friend while she was pregnant.  To keep the critters at bay at night, my pregnant friend peed around the perimeter of the campsite.  Apparently something about pregnant female urine keeps other animals at bay.  Native American wisdom or my friend is just a smart cookie? 


24. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by rays on Mar-26th-03 at 3:43 PM
In response to Message #21.

What about those Victorians?
I can remember back in 1940s Penna when visiting relatives (NO electricity) keeping a potty under the bed. Have we become too spoiled? You need running water for flush toilets! Else the one-holer (unless you had a two-holer).
And when travelling by car a potty was kept in the back seat with the children. Don't follow too close!

(Message last edited Mar-26th-03  3:44 PM.)


25. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by kimberly on Mar-27th-03 at 9:49 PM
In response to Message #22.

I wonder if it works for stray dogs & cats? Hmmmm.......


26. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by augusta on Apr-5th-03 at 10:18 AM
In response to Message #25.

In the 1950's somebody came around to my mom's house.  She was pregnant with one of us at the time.  And they asked if they could buy her urine.  They were from a bleach company and said they use it to make bleach.    My mother said no.


27. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Apr-5th-03 at 3:04 PM
In response to Message #26.

I know urine was a component in Ammonia, but, not in bleach.  How strange! 


28. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by augusta on Apr-7th-03 at 8:42 AM
In response to Message #27.

My mom said 'bleach' but maybe she meant 'ammonia'.
Loved your toilet, Susan!


29. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Edisto on Apr-7th-03 at 9:14 AM
In response to Message #26.

My gawd!  I'll never use bleach again!  (Or is it ammonia I shouldn't use?)  One of my (numerous) old boyfriends was a doctor who ran a weight-loss clinic.  He injected his patients with something called HCG that was made from the urine of pregnant women.  Thank Heaven I didn't need his services in those days.  I asked him what effect the HCG caused, and he said it gave dieters a feeling of well-being.  I remember being at a cocktail party with him.  He and another doctor were discussing what they charged for HCG shots.  My boyfriend charged about six bucks in those days, but the other doctor was charging about four times that much for a few cc's of pee.


30. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by kimberly on Apr-7th-03 at 12:51 PM
In response to Message #26.

Maybe it was just an April Fools joke. Y'all
have done that kind of thing, ain't you?


31. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Apr-13th-03 at 4:52 PM
In response to Message #30.

Back to the split crotched underwear of the day, I found out something interesting.  A friend just made me a copy of the movie Moulin Rouge on CD and I went on a search about the real Moulin Rouge.  Apparently the reason the can-can was such a popular dance was besides getting a glimpse of a woman's frilly underthings, with those split crotched drawers, you apparently got a glimpse of you-know-what!  And all the dancers wore white underwear, except for their one star, I think it may have been Jane Avril.  She was the only one who wore colored underwear.  And, there were special moral police that stopped by on a regular basis to make sure that the dancing girls were wearing underwear.

Do you think our Lizzie ever visited the Moulin Rouge while she was in Europe? 


32. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by rays on Apr-17th-03 at 6:43 PM
In response to Message #31.

NO, a moral person like Lizzie (or her friends) would not have visited this "French restaurant". A code word for a dining place that had private bed rooms on the second floor rentable by the hour. Wouldn't they all have had chaperones?

Surely you knew the answer to this question before you asked it?


33. "Re: Thanks, I'll Stand"
Posted by Susan on Apr-17th-03 at 10:22 PM
In response to Message #32.

Rays, I was being facetious.  You know and I know that that would be the last place Lizzie would ever be found. 



 

Navagation

LizzieAndrewBorden.com © 2001-2008 Stefani Koorey. All Rights Reserved. Copyright Notice.
PearTree Press, P.O. Box 9585, Fall River, MA 02720

 

Page updated 12 October, 2003