Emma & the Horse Buggy with a flustered man

[Curiousmind2014]

In Victoria Lincoln's book, she mentions that the owner of the stable states that he saw a buggy next to the Borden household. It was present there all morning, and left after Andrew Borden got in the home. It had a man standing next to it. He seems finicky, flustered and sort of waiting for someone. There was another gentleman who noticed the same.

One sure thing about the double homicide is that the murderer hated Abby and Andrew beyond a point. They must have done something real bad to deserve such an end. 19 whacks for Abby and 11 for Andrew are a bit too many. I have concluded that it had to be an insider job. Which means it was Emma, Lizzie or Bridget who did it ( I so want to believe in Debbie's molestation theory). If we believe observations of the stable owner, and the man in the passing buggy were true, that horse buggy probably took the killer, the murder weapon and the dress wore to make the kill with it.

Emma's Alibi always bothered me. We have assumed that she got the telegram and then came down to Fall River. Or for those who are open to the possibility of her committing the crime, assume she would commit the crime, go back to Fairhaven and come back to Fall river ( she came to 92 Second St at 5pm, thats 6 hours away from the murder. Still enough of time in my books). However, maybe she went to a quite place by a water body, disposed the axe and burnt the dress and came back to Fall river. If Lizzie or Bridget committed the murders, I would have taken time to burn the dress, dispose off the axe/hatchet/cleaver and discover Andrew's body at their own leisure. However, Lizzie chose to alarm Bridget very soon. Not very intelligent I would say if she was the one who did it.

I think I am now very open to the idea of Emma doing it than Lizzie. In my opinion, if Lizzie was a liar as good as Bridget and did not have the motivation to acquire wealth, she would have never got into trouble. Bridget had the same set of opportunity to kill as Lizzie did.

I wonder if they actually tried to look into this possibility. From what I read, the prosecutors were 100% sure from the first day that Lizzie did it.

I would love to learn about perceptions of y'all on this theory.

[Curryong]

Emma wasn't living in a hotel, where she could dash out for hours and no-one give a continental where she was from one hour to the next. She was living in the home of an old lady, a Mrs Brownell and her middleaged spinster daughter, a dressmaker. In those days it would have been considered very rude to treat your hostess's home like a hotel and go off by yourself, unless you were making a short courtesy call to other friends.

is this the man you were referring to who was behaving strangely?

Witness statements Page 24.
James Cunneen No 17 Freedom St.

'Drove up Second Street that day and the only strange thing I observed was Dr Handy's actions. His carriage was drawn up on the west side of the street, about opposite Dr Kelly's yard. He sat in the buggy and was quickly turning his head from right to left and left to right. He seemed very nervous and his strange actions caused me to look around to see what was the occasion of this; but I observed nothing. Before I reached where he was standing he started and drove slowly down the street by me.'

Dr Hardy was one of the leading doctors in town. He was regarded as being pushy.
If Emma had left Fairhaven she would have had to hire a horse and/or buggy at the local livery stables, something which would surely have been noted. She would have had to be away for at least three hours. (Remember there was an hour and a half between the murders.) She was not noted as arriving at Second St with or without a horse. Emma was known by the neighbours and some locals. She was not seen by anyone as entering the Borden property at any time.

[Curiousmind2014]

I will start off by reiterating that I am more open to Emma committing the murders than Lizzie. I am not saying she did it. I am just sharing a possibility previously shared by Nancydrew stating that through a dental hygienist who happened to be the great grand daughter of someone on the defense team. The dental hygienist quoted that her great grand-father and the defense team were convinced that Emma did it. She apparently claims that Emma dressed up to hide her identity and managed to enter the house.

I definitely don't see Emma as someone who cares much about etiquette. Nor are we sure about her social skills. However, not having many friends before and after the murder speaks for it. Whereas Lizzie definitely had more friends and social presence than Emma. Has anyone verified with the Brownells if Emma was with them during the morning and the afternoon on the day of the murder? If yes; I believe Emma being a murderer is definitely not plausible.

Wasn't John Morse stationed 5 miles away from Fairhaven and had a horse trade he was working on? Can anyone verify that Emma received the telegram? Can anyone verify she came by train?

I am flabbergasted by the short duration between Andrew's entry and Bridget running across the street. If Lizzie actually committed the murders, she should have taken her own sweet time to clean herself up, as splatters could have been on her hair, not just the face or the clothing. I believe she was an accomplice, not the murderer. The only way I can see Lizzie as the murderer is if Bridget lied about everything that happened right from the moment Andrew entered, till he was found dead. If Andrew was dead by 10:50am, which I doubt was the case, that may give both Lizzie and Bridget a chance to clean themselves up, dispose off the murder weapon (I wonder how) and hide/burn their dress.

I will reiterate again. Lizzie could have easily postponed discovery of bodies by an hour, by stating she was in her room taking a nap. But she decided to alarm the whole city about it. If we give her the credit for planning this out, we can't assume she was stupid enough not to have an alibi. We cannot assume that she was stupid enough not to wait long enough to regain her composure, get rid of the weapon, hide the dress, clean herself up, wear a new dress. The only reason she was cavalier about the situation was because the dress, package Andrew bought home, murder weapon and the murderer had escaped some time before she alarmed Bridget and the rest.

Even if her inquest testimony was admissible, we still have no proof that she did it other than circumstantial evidence and the best opportunity to go for the kill. There is no murder weapon, there is no eye witness and no clothing which could be possibly worn by her at the time of murder. Absolutely no proof!

Jennings was a smart guy and he knew Lizzie would get in trouble based on his assessment on the situation. Jennings helped Emma become the Administrator of Borden estate on August 5,1892; not Lizzie. And he probably was fairly comfortable with the prosecutors trying to prove an accomplice to be the murderer. The question we need to ask ourselves is for who would Lizzie put her life at stake? Given her history and social circle, I believe we know the answer to it.

[Aamartin]

I have never thought of that-- Had Emma left the Brownell home long enough to go to FR, be involved in the murder and return in time to get her telegram... It would have been noticed and probably reported.

[irina]

I remember Victoria Lincoln mentioning the carriage and man. She kind of mentioned it in passing. All the information available to us today shows that Dr. Handy had a carriage in the vicinity. There was another wagon with a team of horses the livery stable people did not recognise. They said the day was so warm that it was the humane thing to park in the shade for the horses. This wagon departed at some time and nobody knows who or what it was. I don't see how Emma could have gotten away from her hostesses.

[Curryong]

Lizzie almost certainly didn't know that uncle John was arriving home for the midday meal that day until her father informed her when he got home. She knew Bridget would be down by 11:30am to stoke up the fire and warm the soup the family were having for lunch. John was the sort of man who could have arrived home at any time.

It was Bridget's afternoon off on Thursdays and Lizzie would have murdered Andrew later (at say about 1pm) after Bridget had departed. However, Uncle John coming back was a huge setback. He was the sort of man who enjoyed sitting and talking with Andrew for hours. Also, he was sleeping in the guest room. What if he had gone upstairs to comb his hair before lunch and discovered Abby? With Andrew still alive the job was only half done.

Also, if no Abby had appeared after Andrew had had a nap and before the family had lunch he would almost certainly have gone looking for her. Andrew was a male, an old one but a male all the same. A sleeping or dozing male however is at a strict disadvantage. A female killer could have managed that whereas Andrew awake and standing would have been a problem.

Nobody ever said in any statement that Emma was a woman who ignored etiquette or was rude or unthoughtful. Both Borden sisters were regarded as ladylike but a bit snobbish. Emma didn't go in for Church affairs like her sister but she had friends. Alice Russell was as much Emma's friend as she was Lizzie's. Emma was the one who wrote to Uncle John several times a year. Lizzie didn't. Emma was very close to other relatives like the Gardiners, with whom she lived, also with the Reverend Jubb's unmarried daughters.

The Brownells would have noticed if Emma had been gone that long from Fairhaven. If they didn't say anything to the police the livery stable where she hired the horse certainly would. They would have kept a record. Emma caught the 3:50pm train from Fairhaven which arrived at River Fall at just before five.

We don't know whether there was a direct road from Fairhaven to Fall River in those days, or what the roads were like. A horse can't canter too quickly along a rough road. Second Street was busy. Emma was known. Unless she had a cloak of invisibility I don't know how Emma and a horse would have escaped not being seen.

[irina]

If the note was a pure invention~which I don't believe, but just suppose~I think the purpose would have been to cover for Abby not being back for lunch. That she was out in the morning, marketing or whatever wasn't necessarily odd, so if she was simply unaccounted for at mid-morning there wouldn't be a reason for an elaborate tale of someone sick in town. Somewhere in testimony a question is asked of someone, maybe Lizzie, if Abby was very often out such as she was (supposedly) on the morning she was killed. The answer which was accepted was something like twice in a number of months. To me this has to be making the distinction that it was unusual for Abby to be out (potentially) past dinner. Earlier testimony had established that Abby frequently did the marketing.

So if one goes with the idea Lizzie planned it and did it, it's a bit more complicated I think than OMG, Abby is dead upstairs, father just came home and....Uncle John is going to do WHAT???!!! The note, if pure fabrication, is covering for Abby being gone a much longer time. So then what was the plan? Lizzie did it folks argue that she planned to get Bridget off to the fabric sale and while she was gone, dispatch her father, but because Morse was coming back things got expedited. Or did Lizzie plan to leave but felt forced to kill her father before Uncle John returned? I like the suggestion he might have gone upstairs to comb his hair. In a family that cleaned their teeth~at least Andrew did~in the kitchen sink, I doubt Uncle John would have gone upstairs to comb his hair. Maybe he had left a little hatchet behind and Lizzie knew it and assumed he would go upstairs to retrieve it...

[Curryong]

John didn't clean his teeth at all, at least there's no testimony from Bridget that he produced a toothbrush from somewhere and started scrubbing away! I used the comb as an example. Lizzie could not risk Uncle John going into the guest room for any reason that morning as he would have found Abby. With Andrew still alive the fat would then really have been in the fire.

Remember, Lizzie didn't see John to speak to until after the murders. He was a complete grub and no doubt was known in the family for turning up to stay without so much as a change of clothes. There may have been exceptional occurrences however. What if he had brought other clothes and decided to change his shirt or have a wash in the hand basin before lunch ? What if he had taken a local newspaper into his room the day before and decided to go and retrieve it to read something out to Andrew?

[Curryong]

A reporter called at the Brownell home in late August 1892. The elderly Mrs Brownell spoke to him. Her daughter was out. The results of the conversation (couldn't call it an interview) were printed in the Evening Standard the next day. The reporter was interested in Emma's correspondence.

[irina]

We think of the pressure a guilty Lizzie would have been under with Andrew home, Abby dead upstairs and the sudden knowledge that Uncle John is coming back for dinner. BUT Lizzie still acted normal, at least according to Bridget's testimony. Lizzie was messing around with her ironing & interested in fabric sales. None of this really makes sense to me. I don't think Bridget lied. Seems to me if Lizzie was guilty and under horrendous pressure she'd be doing something other than trying to iron handkerchiefs in the moments before she killed her father. In reality until Bridget actually went upstairs,a guilty Lizzie would only have known that she was in deep doo-doo and should have been frantic about how to either get away or kill her father efficiently without Bridget or a returning Uncle John catching her. Lots of complications.

[Curryong]

If you look at it in another way however, it was imperative that Lizzie try and get Bridget away from the scene of the action, so to speak, if she could. Don't you think that it's odd that, on a very warm day, a woman who doesn't have a huge amount of domestic duties wants to fire up the kitchen stove and use the iron. Use the iron too on a table that was probably already set for lunch or about to be ? Also that she would start speaking to the maid about fabric sales on this particular morning when, as Bridget said in court, she had NEVER done so before, though Emma had.

People who murder do some strange things before and after the act. Some are agitated so it shows, some are as cool as cucumbers, some try and act normally but are churned up inside. What about poisoners who sit down and calmly eat and drink with their victims? Some poisoners in the 19th century were regarded as good, loving wives and mothers before their arrest! As I'm a 'Lizzie dun it' person, I find the fact that she had a great love of the theatre very interesting. I believe she took a starring role for herself on that Thursday, even if certain remarks she made about undertakers and so on, did cause consternation among her friends!

[irina]

The whole ironing thing was crazy from start to finish and that's why I started a thread on that. She was actually just using what was left of the breakfast fire which had fairly gone out. Just a crazy thing to do on a warm day when folks were getting murdered. I think poisoners distance themselves from the act mentally. Hatchet/axe murder is so personal and the resulting gore...I mean if one isn't used to gore and horror, it's hard to imagine a middle aged woman acting normal after committing the first overly brutal murder in her life. Ironing no less. It would make more sense if she secreted herself in her room with a "sick headache" or "monthly sickness" or vapours or whatever Victorian women got.