Maplecroft

This the place to have frank, but cordial, discussions of the Lizzie Borden case

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twinsrwe
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:11 pm

InterestedReader wrote: ... I thought they'd just had it painted in May and Lizzie chose the colours. There was the daring 'drab' accented by an oxblood - indistinguishable from real blood if you dragged your skirts along it... .

Yes, you are correct, Interested. Mary A. Raymond, the dressmaker, stated that she had gone to the Borden house the first week in May, and made the Bedford Cord dress for Lizzie first. She also stated that Lizzie got paint on the dress during the three weeks she was at the Borden house. So, Lizzie had the dress for 3 months prior to the murders, and decided 3 days after the murders, that the dress just had to be burned the day after she became a suspect. Hmmmm...

See page 1576 of the Trial Transcript for Mrs. Mary A. Raymond's testimony: http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... orden2.pdf

Out of curiosity, where did you read that the ‘daring 'drab' accented by an oxblood’? I have not heard of this before.


InterestedReader wrote: ...Here we have Farrow & Ball paint and it's sold in the States now, i've just read. You might like to see their colours. Farrow & Ball are reckoned to be the most exact reproductions of the colours used in the past. They also recreate the textures of historic paint, such as distemper, and all the finishes once used interior or exterior:

http://www.farrow-ball.com/colours/pain ... egory/list

They're wonderful. They make modern paint-colours seem crude.


Thank you for the link, Interested. I tried to find the drab color within that link, but failed to find it. :sad:
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Trial testimony of the Borden housepainter, John W. Grouard, page 1349:

Q. What was the color of the paint?
A. Kind of dark drab.
---
Q. What was the trimmings? Was there any difference in the color of the trimmings?
A. A little darker.

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... orden2.pdf

I did some research on the drab color, to see if I could find a sample of what this color looked like. There are several description of this color, but no pictures However, I did run across a couple of interesting entries from the Lizzie Borden : Warps & Wefts blog. (I think it is important for us to realize that the color descriptions here are in the eye of the beholder.)

Posted by Administrator (Shelley Dziedzic) on Tuesday November 20, 2007 (Underlining and font highlighting are mine.):

When it came time to choose the color to paint the Borden house after the sale to the current owners, there was much discussion as to what shade to select. Newspaper descriptions and other sources cite the house color as “drab”- a popular Victorian catch-all term for a gray-brown-olive nondescript color. Army khaki fatigue uniforms may come close to the color. The current shade of green on the house is very snappy, but a little greener than was probably found in 1892. However, if you have a good look at the underside of the floorboards in the cellar of the house, a very convincing drab shade can still be seen which is probably the right shade. The trim was said to be painted a darker shade of the same color.

cellar10.jpg

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yb6dqupg


Posted by Administrator (Shelley Dziedzic) on Sunday May 02, 2010 (Underlining and font highlighting are mine.):

Lots of excitement at #92 this week as the house is stripped back to the raw wood on the clapboards. For the first time we see the original color of the house which was called “drab”, a grey-olive color. Since 1996 the house has been tan under McGinn ownership during the opening years of the B&B , and a strong green which was applied in 2004 under new ownership. The new treatment, called “rhino paint” comes with a lifetime guarantee and is advertised as the toughest paint around. The crew is doing a great job of prep work and the glimpse of the raw wood while the paint is completely removed offers some detail as to the way things are put together. The side entry porch overhang was not original to the house and was added after the 1892 murders. The new paint color will more accurately match the drab paint color of 1892. The darker trim paint currently on the house was a very close match to the 1892 color.

Original Color ~ Gray-Olive.png

Source: http://tinyurl.com/y8x366x8
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:41 pm

On Aug-1st-02, Harry posted, in the thread titled, The Bedford Cord Dress (Underlining and font highlighting are mine.):

Regarding the color of the house, there is another indication that the house exterior was brown. This is from the Evening Standard, dated June 21, 1893 and refers to Lizzie returning home after the trial was over:

"Miss Lizzie Borden arrived in this city soon after 8 o'clock last evening. An immense crowd, which reminded one of the early days of the horror, surged about the brown house on Second street."




On August 3, 2002, William posted, in the thread titled, The Bedford Cord Dress (Underlining is mine.):

Item from the Democrat & Chronicle Newspaper,Rochester, New York, Fall River, Mass., August 15, 1892:

"The "murder house" as it is already spoken of by everyone, is No.
92, North Second street. It is a three story and a half house structure, neatly painted in two shades of gray."

Source: http://tinyurl.com/y96uffwk
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby mbhenty » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Very confusing, huh? :?:

The color drab is like the color buff. Everyone has there own idea of what the color tone is. Even reporters.

So, please allow me to stress that I will not pretend to know what color 92 was painted in 92. :roll: :oops: I was always under the understanding that 'drab' was a grey (gray) tone. But in the past references here and there have described tones of green and brown as drab, also.

When I was a child, (no, not in the 18 hundreds. A little later) many 3 deckers in fall river, and I imagine everywhere else in New England, were painted a dull gray. Gray was very popular, very neutral. And I would bet that it had more to do with the cost of paint then with a popular tone. In the 60s and 70s I believe Maplecorft was painted gray. (me thinks, if I can remember correctly) :scratch:

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby InterestedReader » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:51 am

twinsrwe wrote:Mary A. Raymond, the dressmaker, stated that she had gone to the Borden house the first week in May, and made the Bedford Cord dress for Lizzie first. She also stated that Lizzie got paint on the dress during the three weeks she was at the Borden house. So, Lizzie had the dress for 3 months prior to the murders, and decided 3 days after the murders, that the dress just had to be burned the day after she became a suspect. Hmmmm...

See page 1576 of the Trial Transcript for Mrs. Mary A. Raymond's testimony: http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... orden2.pdf

Out of curiosity, where did you read that the ‘daring 'drab' accented by an oxblood’? I have not heard of this before.


Not literally! I didn't mean it literally.

The other day it struck me how violent people can become in their opposed opinions on that dress-burning. On whether or not it indicates guilt.
And last year there was a poster who believed Lizzie found time after the murders to apply paint onto her clothes to conceal blood. Can you imagine? :shock:

twinsrwe wrote:Thank you for the link, Interested. I tried to find the drab color within that link, but failed to find it. :sad:


There's plenty of buff there :grin: I thought the issue was 'buff'.

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:01 pm

Yes, MB, it is very confusing!

At the trial, John W. Grouard testified that the colors were mixed to Lizzie’s satisfaction. What colors he mixed to create the drab color are unknown, because neither Jennings nor Knowlton asked what the names of the colors were. Most likely because what colors were used to create the final ‘drab’ color, were not relevant to the case.

Trial testimony of John W. Grouard, being questioned by Mr. Jennings, page 1349:

Q. Do you remember whether or not any tests were made from time to time by you and her in regard to the appearance of the paint when you were mixing it?
A. Well, the paint was carried there on the afternoon of the 9th and her father said that she was to select the color, and I better not go on with it until the color was determined, and she not being present, it was delayed until the next morning. That evening she came to my house and said the color was not just what she wanted.

Page 1350

Mr. Knowlton. You are not to state the conversation.

Q. She came to your house, In consequence of what she said to you was an appointment made for the next morning?
A. The next morning early before the men came to go to work, that was about six o’clock in the morning ---

Q. That is the time you told us about?
A. Yes, sir, ---and I mixed the colors then satisfactorily.

Q. She was there at the time?
A. Yes, sir.

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... orden2.pdf

I wonder why Andrew wanted Lizzie to pick the color that his house was to be painted. Wouldn’t choosing a color to paint the house normally be a decision that a man’s wife would make?

I could be wrong, but something else which crossed my mind is that the drab color seems to be a very dull unattractive color. It seems to me that the color Lizzie picked reflected how she felt about her life in that God forsaken house.
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:54 pm

Below is an 1879 liquid ASBESTOS paint color chart from the H. W. Johns Manufacturing Company from New York. The last row of paint colors are: Med. Drab, Buff, Dark Drab and Light Drab. However, those drab colors may be a far cry from the drab color Lizzie chose for the house, due to that particular color being a mixture of colors.

Click on image to enlarge.

6973690729c12f2344568e611d209aeb.jpg
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:55 pm

InterestedReader wrote:
twinsrwe wrote:… Out of curiosity, where did you read that the ‘daring 'drab' accented by an oxblood’? I have not heard of this before.


Not literally! I didn't mean it literally. …

Oh. OK, you got me good with that one! :lol:

InterestedReader wrote: … The other day it struck me how violent people can become in their opposed opinions on that dress-burning. On whether or not it indicates guilt.
And last year there was a poster who believed Lizzie found time after the murders to apply paint onto her clothes to conceal blood. Can you imagine? :shock:

I know you are right about people being argumentative regarding the dress-burning incident. From all indications, the color of the paint on that dress, was not the color of dried blood. However, I think many people, me included, find it highly suspicious that Lizzie decided that dress had to be burned 3 days after the murders, and the day after she was inform that she was a suspect, especially since the paint had been on the dress for 3 months to the murders and Lizzie didn’t see fit to burn it during those 3 months. So, why burn the dress that particular morning? Where was this dress when the investigators were searching her other dresses. Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, they did not find the dress with paint on it during their search.

I remember the discussion regarding the member who believed Lizzie applied paint to her dress to cover the blood. There are so many people who believe that Lizzie did not have time to kill Andrew, break the hatchet handle and clean up in the little time she had before calling for Bridget. I personally, believe it is a bit over the top for her to also apply paint to her dress too. But, we were not there.

InterestedReader wrote:
twinsrwe wrote:Thank you for the link, Interested. I tried to find the drab color within that link, but failed to find it. :sad:


There's plenty of buff there :grin: I thought the issue was 'buff'.

Oh for goodness sakes! You are right, the issue was buff. My bad! :oops: :cry: :oops:
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby InterestedReader » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:58 pm

twinsrwe wrote:
I know you are right about people being argumentative regarding the dress-burning incident. From all indications, the color of the paint on that dress, was not the color of dried blood.


It sounds as if it must have been the 'drab'...

twinsrwe wrote:However, I think many people, me included, find it highly suspicious that Lizzie decided that dress had to be burned 3 days after the murders, and the day after she was inform that she was a suspect, especially since the paint had been on the dress for 3 months to the murders and Lizzie didn’t see fit to burn it during those 3 months. So, why burn the dress that particular morning?


It's very baffling. A police officer stood right outside the window. People attribute infinite cunning to this woman yet she starts destroying her clothes in view of an officer?
Someone here once observed that Sunday was also the first day Bridget was absent from the house. It may be just as relevant as anything else.

twinsrwe wrote:Where was this dress when the investigators were searching her other dresses. Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, they did not find the dress with paint on it during their search.


I'm really unclear about when they searched. I need to have a good read of the transcripts for this. Were all the searches conducted before that Sunday? I've a hazy idea they went at it several times.

The problem is, at the time of the search there was no call for the officers to look for that specific garment and the issue didn't arise until Alice Russell belatedly informed everyone of its destruction. So the officers searched for blood on clothing, but not a slightly too-long house-frock of cheap fabric with some drab paint around the hem. At the Trial they had to bring in Mrs Raymond to describe what she'd made so as to lend it some reality. In essence then, how could the police search for a thing they knew nothing about and which only began to exist in the investigators' minds with an account of it being destroyed?

The dress was too long. Was that a good choice for the activity of murder? Hatchet murders sound energetic. In an overlong skirt you might trip.

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Re: Dress-burning digression....

Postby InterestedReader » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:02 am

...I put the light out last night and then couldn't sleep for wondering why Lizzie Borden burned a dress in front of Alice Russell and a policeman.

Twins, was it Emma who was washing dishes? Wasn't she there too?

So it almost seems as if Lizzie wanted people to see her dress-burning.

Suppose she had an incriminating dress with blood-spatter. It somehow escaped the search but she could see no way of getting rid of the thing. So she decided to destroy it in full view of witnesses while declaring the reason to be paint-stains - as if two and potentially three people seeing the act and hearing her words would confer plausibility on the paint stains. It reminds one of misdirection in a magic show. When it came to giving evidence at the trial Alice Russell was asked if she could see any paint-stains and she evidently did not - she saw a quick flurry of fabric.

It was mainly Emma who corroborated the paint-on-dress story, wasn't it? From memory Bridget wouldn't commit herself on the issue and the dressmakers - were they even asked about paint? My memory is the dressmakers agreed it was too long... but I need to look this up :grin:

Who did see paint on that dress?

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Dress-burning...

Postby InterestedReader » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:41 am

In the kitchen there was a cupboard beside the stove. On the Sunday Lizzie was seen to produce the dress from this cupboard, is that right? The Thursday, as people pressed into the house in the aftermath of the murders, Lizzie sat for quite a while on a rocking-chair in the kitchen. Do people believe that the dress was already hidden in that cupboard?

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:27 am

Sorry I haven't replied to your questions yet, Interested, I have been doing some research in between celebrating Father's Day. However, here are some answers off the top of my head.

InterestedReader wrote:
twinsrwe wrote:

I know you are right about people being argumentative regarding the dress-burning incident. From all indications, the color of the paint on that dress, was not the color of dried blood.


It sounds as if it must have been the 'drab'...

Yes, I believe the paint that was on that dress was the drab, but there could have also been blood on it.

InterestedReader wrote:
twinsrwe wrote:However, I think many people, me included, find it highly suspicious that Lizzie decided that dress had to be burned 3 days after the murders, and the day after she was inform that she was a suspect, especially since the paint had been on the dress for 3 months to the murders and Lizzie didn’t see fit to burn it during those 3 months. So, why burn the dress that particular morning?


It's very baffling. A police officer stood right outside the window. People attribute infinite cunning to this woman yet she starts destroying her clothes in view of an officer? ...

I read somewhere that the police officer could not see inside the house because the window was too high. I’ll have to see if I can find that information.

InterestedReader wrote:... I'm really unclear about when they searched. I need to have a good read of the transcripts for this. Were all the searches conducted before that Sunday? I've a hazy idea they went at it several times.

The problem is, at the time of the search there was no call for the officers to look for that specific garment and the issue didn't arise until Alice Russell belatedly informed everyone of its destruction. So the officers searched for blood on clothing, but not a slightly too-long house-frock of cheap fabric with some drab paint around the hem. At the Trial they had to bring in Mrs Raymond to describe what she'd made so as to lend it some reality. In essence then, how could the police search for a thing they knew nothing about and which only began to exist in the investigators' minds with an account of it being destroyed? ...

You're right, the police did not know to search for a paint stained dress, but there was no mention of them finding one during their search either. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Emma testify that the paint stained dress was hanging on a hook in a closet? Yet, the following post by Harry puts a twist in the mystery.

On July 13, 2007, Harry posted the following in the thread titled, red paint on dress:

The police did search the house, several times. No, they did not find a paint covered dress. Where it was has never been explained.

Lizzie burned it the Sunday morning after the Mayor and City Marshal made a call on her Saturday evening. They advised her that she was suspected.

The dress burning incident was witnessed (although she never actually saw Lizzie burn it) by Alice Russell. The police had questioned Alice about whether all of Lizzie's dresses were present. Alice allegedly told the Borden's hired detective, Hanscom, of the missing dress.

The police were not notified until Alice had a change of heart and told Knowlton just prior to the end of the Grand Jury term in December 1892. Up to that time the Grand Jury had not indicted Lizzie and apparently this bit of news tipped the scales against her.


Source: http://tinyurl.com/y7boxrh9

Alice testified that Lizzie pulled the dress from a cupboard in the kitchen. Did the police not search this cupboard? And if they did search it, why didn't they find it? If the dress was not on the hook where Emma said it was, and it was not in the kitchen cupboard, then where was it?

I am going to have to check out the trial testimony, as well as the forum posts, again, to see if I can find the information I am thinking of.

InterestedReader wrote:... The dress was too long. Was that a good choice for the activity of murder? Hatchet murders sound energetic. In an overlong skirt you might trip.

I'm not sure what you mean by the dress being too long. As far I know, the dress was floor length, but it was not so long that one would trip on it. As I recall, Lizzie wore the dress several days before she got paint on it. I think it would be very difficult for a woman in our day and age to wear such a dress, because we are not used to walking around everyday in floor length dresses.
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Re: Dress-burning digression....

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:50 am

InterestedReader wrote:...I put the light out last night and then couldn't sleep for wondering why Lizzie Borden burned a dress in front of Alice Russell and a policeman. ...

Lizzie did a lot of 'odd' things, that leads one to question she mental status, as well as her innocents.

InterestedReader wrote:... Twins, was it Emma who was washing dishes? Wasn't she there too? ...

Yes, if I recall correctly, Emma was in the room, but I do not recall if she was washing dishes or not.

InterestedReader wrote:... It was mainly Emma who corroborated the paint-on-dress story, wasn't it? From memory Bridget wouldn't commit herself on the issue and the dressmakers - were they even asked about paint? My memory is the dressmakers agreed it was too long... but I need to look this up :grin: ...

Yes, Emma corroborated that the dress had paint on it. Mary A. Raymond, the dressmaker, also corroborated that Lizzie had gotten paint on the Bedford Cord dress shortly after she finished making it.
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:49 am

InterestedReader wrote:In the kitchen there was a cupboard beside the stove. On the Sunday Lizzie was seen to produce the dress from this cupboard, is that right? The Thursday, as people pressed into the house in the aftermath of the murders, Lizzie sat for quite a while on a rocking-chair in the kitchen. Do people believe that the dress was already hidden in that cupboard?

If the police searched every nook and cranny, which means they also searched inside that cupboard, and did not find the paint stained dress, then, no, I do not believe the dress was in that cupboard since Thursday.

At this point in time, I tend to believe that the paint stained dress may have been in that mysterious bundle that was on the floor of Emma's closet since Thursday. Lizzie probably panicked after she had been informed, by the Mayor and City Marshal, Saturday evening that she was a suspect. She knew she had to get rid of the dress as soon as possible. I think she transferred the dress from Emma’s closet to the kitchen cupboard on Sunday morning. She then temporarily hid it in the kitchen cupboard, until the fire became hot enough to burn it.

Emma and Lizzie were the only two people in the kitchen before Alice appeared. I think Emma was well aware of who killed Andrew and Abby, as well as what that bundle on her closet floor contained. I think she strongly felt obligated to back Lizzie up, because of the promise she had made to her dying mother; to ‘take care of baby Lizzie’.
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby InterestedReader » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Thanks Judy. I was wittering from memory - I'll read the relevant transcripts when I have a mo, because some of these things are very unclear to me.

Did Alice really not linger to see it done? Wow. That's Harry so I bet it's right.

From memory one of the faults of Lizzie's Bedford cord was its length. I'll go & check what was said about it but I understood this to mean it was a bit too long all round at the hem. (For obvious reasons of practicality these workaday house-dresses tended to be exempt from the fashion of longer back-panels in the skirt - the demi-train effect.)
It's an interesting thing to get wrong, because no dressmaker worth the name would miscalculate a skirt-length. For anyone out there who still sews in the modern age I ask you, what does it tell us? That Lizzie Borden was vain.

No-one is ever surprised by the fabric itself, this 'Bedford cord', but it would be very warm on an August day. It's not corduroy but it was a ridged weave with quite some weight to it.

I also need to find if that officer who said he could or couldn't see - because I can't even remember an officer being asked if he could see the incident :oops: I wonder if he was at the back or at the side window? Photos of the rear exterior suggest it might just be possible. At the sides of the house and at the front the windows were very high off the ground. (In a photo taken in Second Street some passers-by allow us to measure how high they were.) But at the rear the level of the ground seems to sit higher against the house. See what you think. Compare the cellar windows, side and rear, and their relation to the ground-level.

The other issue I really must study for myself is the bundle-on-Emma's-floor. It seems incredible that the police wouldn't bother checking it.

Isn't that interview with the aged Alice weird.... Alice says Lizzie would have been justified in killing Andrew for his failure to fund an appropriate lifestyle - she didn't get enough art, travel and socialising :shock: Is it just me who finds Miss Russell's opinion not quite sane? Alice worked all her life. Andrew Borden twice married women, Sarah and Abby, who worked for their living. From his perspective Lizzie's life must have seemed agreeable - she need never lift a finger.
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby KGDevil » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:08 pm

InterestedReader wrote:Thanks Judy. I was wittering from memory - I'll read the relevant transcripts when I have a mo, because some of these things are very unclear to me.

Did Alice really not linger to see it done? Wow. That's Harry so I bet it's right.

From memory one of the faults of Lizzie's Bedford cord was its length. I'll go & check what was said about it but I understood this to mean it was a bit too long all round at the hem. (For obvious reasons of practicality these workaday house-dresses tended to be exempt from the fashion of longer back-panels in the skirt - the demi-train effect.)
It's an interesting thing to get wrong, because no dressmaker worth the name would miscalculate a skirt-length. For anyone out there who still sews in the modern age I ask you, what does it tell us? That Lizzie Borden was vain.

No-one is ever surprised by the fabric itself, this 'Bedford cord', but it would be very warm on an August day. It's not corduroy but it was a ridged weave with quite some weight to it.

I also need to find if that officer who said he could or couldn't see - because I can't even remember an officer being asked if he could see the incident :oops: I wonder if he was at the back or at the side window? Photos of the rear exterior suggest it might just be possible. At the sides of the house and at the front the windows were very high off the ground. (In a photo taken in Second Street some passers-by allow us to measure how high they were.) But at the rear the level of the ground seems to sit higher against the house. See what you think. Compare the cellar windows, side and rear, and their relation to the ground-level.

The other issue I really must study for myself is the bundle-on-Emma's-floor. It seems incredible that the police wouldn't bother checking it.

Isn't that interview with the aged Alice weird.... Alice says Lizzie would have been justified in killing Andrew for his failure to fund an appropriate lifestyle - she didn't get enough art, travel and socialising :shock: Is it just me who finds Miss Russell's opinion not quite sane? Alice worked all her life. Andrew Borden twice married women, Sarah and Abby, who worked for their living. From his perspective Lizzie's life must have seemed agreeable - she need never lift a finger.


Having been to the house,I can tell you it would be very improbable that any of the officers in the yard could see into any of the kitchen windows from the ground. Which is one of the ways the defense was able to spin the dress burning and brush it off as being innocent. Their question was would Lizzie have burned that dress with those police officers milling around in the yard? Would she have risked it. Well, if you throw in the fact that they couldn't stand tall enough to look into the windows there really is no threat of being seen.

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby stargazer » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:22 pm

Great pictures ! I live in the desert, and it's refreshing to see authentic restorations.
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby patsy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:16 pm

I saw a post saying Maplecroft was up for sale again. Wonder if it's true.

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby mbhenty » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:26 pm

Sadly, yes. Sign went up today.... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :oops:

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:26 pm

MB, thank you for confirming this sale for us. I find it incredibility sad. :sad: I know it is none of my business, but what in the world happened? Kristee Bates purchased Maplecroft in November of 2014, did an amazing job of renovating the house, and she is now going to sell it? I thought she was planning on turning Maplecroft into a bed and breakfast?
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby mbhenty » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:12 pm

Yes, some may ask, WHAT HAPPEN. I can give you a hint.

Some of you have heard (read) me mention the city of fall river using a small 'f' and a small 'r'., writing it that way for the small minds that live here... namely fall river politics and city fathers... and mothers too. In fall river it is who you know and who's palm you grease. As I have mentioned many times, fall river just doesn't care about its past or its future. The reason why I will not be living her for much longer.

That is what happened to Maplecroft. Try and give something to fall river that it can be proud of and it will fight you at every turn, making it very difficult for newcomers to relocate here and make a go of things. Nothing ever changes and nothing ever will.

fall river..... small f and small r for the small minds that live here. That is what happened to Maplecorft.
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Re: Maplecroft

Postby InterestedReader » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:12 am

Sotheby's, no less :shock:

... So did the authorities dislike the guest-house plan?

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:56 am

Thank you for the hint, MB. I know you have posted several times, in other threads, about the small minds that live in the city of fall river, who are not at all interested in preserving its history. :shaking: That is such a shame! I was really hoping that the reason Kristee Bates decided to sell Maplecroft, was because of anything but that. :sad:

I feel so sorry for Kristee Bates; she has put a lot of time and money into restoring Maplecroft, just to have her dreams squashed. :cry:
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby mbhenty » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:08 pm


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Re: Maplecroft

Postby patsy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:08 am

Thanks for the update, mb, it seems so sad that despite the efforts of some to appeal to to Zoning it did not work out. After all that work a shame for sure, and now what will be the future for that beautiful home and all that history.

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Re: Maplecroft

Postby twinsrwe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:05 pm

MB: Thank you for posting The Herald News article on Maplecroft being put on the market again. With having to fight city politics at every move she made, I can see why Kristee has decided to sell. I can also see why you have decided to move out of Fall River, as soon as possible.

I didn't realize Kristee wanted to turn Maplecroft into a multi-use facility that would have included a single family residence, bed & breakfast, museum, tea room, card readings, event center and a gift shop to be located in the carriage house. She really did have big plans for Maplecroft; the mansion certainly had the rooms a accommodate everything she wanted to do.

Jeez, Robert Dube sure made out like a bandit, didn’t he?
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."~ Abraham Lincoln :grin:

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