Emma's Beau.

[theebmonique]

I am excited about retracing Morse's path and Andrew's as well...


Tracy...

[john]

Re: Morse
"He has been on intimate terms with Mr. Borden's daughters of late, and has been driving with them frequently."
RB to find the quote. Someone tell us about this.

[john]

Well, Kat, you is the explainer, and we is the explainee.

[Allen]

I have been looking for a thread to post this question in. and I haven't found one so far that seems to fit. I don't really want to start another thread so I'll just put it here. Why does it seem from a newspaper account I read in Lizzie Borden Past & Present that Ellen Eagan testified at the inquest? Yet she is not listed as a witness, and there is no testimony listed anywhere in any of the source documents I've checked so far on the inquest, or even the trial? This has never really been explained away for me. Is there something I'm missing?


Rebello page 128-129:

" There was a witness at today's inquest, whose name was not given out by the police, when the usual bulletin was issued this afternoon. It was Mrs. Egan [ Eagan], who was seen to enter the Borden yard before the murders, mistaking it for Dr. Kelly's property adjoining." Boston Daily Adviser, August 11, 1892:1


" The last witness of the day, and the most inconsequential one of all, was the mysterious woman whom the little Polish peddler, Lubinsky, declared he saw coming out of Borden's yard on the morning of the tragedy, and at the time, not far from the hour of it.

Officer Harrington was detailed to work up the case, and he brushed aside the mystery and revealed the unknown in[is] a big, good natured Irish woman named Emen [ Ellen] Eagen who lives on Mulberry Street.

Mrs. Eagan was put on the stand and after the first three questions had been asked her, the authorities were satisified that her evidence had no bearing on the case.

She answered all the queries directed at her with a bluntness, however, which caused a smile to pass around among the officers, the first tinge of levity which has appeared on this terribly serious case so far.

In the first place, she was not sure whether or not it was the Borden's yard from which she emerged on the fatal morning, and a little questioning satisfied the district attorney that, instead of from the Borden's she had come out from the yard of Dr. Kelly, who lives in the house above the Borden homestead.

Her reason for her appearance there was a most natural one. She had been feeling unwell for a day or two preceding the murder, and on Wednesday last had experimented on herself with a few pills.

On Friday [Thursday] morning she had occassion to go down to make some purchases, and was taking the Second Street route when she began to feel the effects of the pill. She hurried into Dr. Kelly's yard and accosted a servant girl who was washing the windows, and who directed her to a place nearby.

When she came out of the yard the little peddler saw her but she passed down the street, performed her errand and then returned home, totally unconcious of the fact that she was to become quite and important personage in the eyes of the clew hunters. After Mrs. Eagan testified, the inquest was adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning..." Boston Herald, August 11, 1892:2.

[Harry]

I have been looking for a thread to post this question in. and I haven't found one so far that seems to fit. I don't really want to start another thread so I'll just put it here. Why does it seem from a newspaper account I read in Lizzie Borden Past & Present that Ellen Eagan testified at the inquest? Yet she is not listed as a witness, and there is no testimony listed anywhere in any of the source documents I've checked so far on the inquest, or even the trial? This has never really been explained away for me. Is there something I'm missing?........

We do know that the inquest consisted of at least 2 volumes. Volume 1 is missing. That volume contained the testimonys of at least Bridget Sullivan and Lizzie Borden.

Bridget's testimony is still lost to us and Lizzie's was re-created from the Evening Standard newspaper account.

What else, if anything, was in volume 1 is at best a guess. Since volume 1 is missing could there have been a volume 3 which was also lost? Again, speculation.

Even Brown, whose whole book relies on Eagan, says that the police gave her information very little weight. Since the inquest itself was supposed to be secret and her testimony considered worthless, perhaps it never was recorded. More speculation.

I've checked my newspaper files and can find no other mention of her testifying other than a brief line in the Rochester, NY paper:

"There was a witness at to-day's inquest whose name was not given out by the police when the usual bulletin was issued. It was Mrs. EGAN, who was seen to enter the BORDEN yard before the murders, mistaking it for Dr. KELLY'S property adjoining."

I doubt if the Rochester paper had their own reporter on the scene so their account is probably from a wire service.

[Kat]

She is listed as "Allen Eagan" in the Witness Statements, pg. 14 shows in the index. Another mystery

Do you know the Robinsky letter?
I'm not sure whether the papers were alluding to Hyman Lubinsky, the ice cream man or the Robinsky letter who was a peddler.
Any author who includes the letter sent to Emma has a different transcription.

[Kat]

John, since I provided a map I'd first like to know: Did it look like Bowen had time to go to the Emery's? Or was there a mistake made somewhere?
The letter in Knowlton Papers which claims to have seen him driving fast- was that anywhere near the time or the place?

[Kat]

"HK113
Letter, handwritten in ink, enclosed in holograph envelope."

"Fall River Dec 2nd/92

I have a few words of importance that I think will be of service in Lizzie Borden’s Case. on the day of the murder I was coming towards Fall River from the Shove Mill, where I met Doctor Bowen and a young man In a Carriage, driving so fast that I turned around to look after them. I thought at the time that someone was dieing and He was going to see
them. I am well acquainted with Him, but I never saw Him look so wild in my life before, it was 15 about minets to eleven. the young man was sitting on the left side of the Doctor. I met them near the Slade School house, the Doctor had hold of the reins with boath hands, driving for dear life. has Doctor Bowen ever been questioned were He was on the
morning of the Murder. this is the truth and nothing but the truth."

--I'm not sure where the Slade school and the Shove Mill are.

[john]

Good job on the map, Kat.
The times can be nailed down here to a very small window. It appears that Lizzie sent Bowen looking for Morse, yet Morse showed up on his own and according to their testimony she barely talked to him. Why didn't Lizzie also send the police to look for Morse. Why would she want Morse anyway?
Just personally, I found it incredible that two of the principals of the case were at a different house at about the same time within a half hour or so of the time of one of the most significant crimes of all. Coincidence?
Consider this, Lizzie knows her Father is dead, possibly sends Dr. Bowen to look for Uncle Morse, certainly sends Dr. Bowen to telegraph sister Emma who is a long ways away, but never sends anyone to look for her stepmother to console her.

[john]

.... to console her, or tell Mrs. Borden of Mr. Borden's death!

[Edisto]

Harry is almost sure to be right about the Rochester newspaper's having picked up the Eagan story from the wire service, or at least from the same source as the Boston paper, because the text is almost identical.

I think Lizzie's behavior with regard to Abby is one of the strangest aspects of the Borden saga and certainly appears to point to her guilt or at least to her having guilty knowledge. After Andrew Borden's body was discovered, Lizzie seemed almost to forget there was such a person as Abby! Since she sent Dr. Bowen to telegraph Emma prior to the discovery of Abby's body, Emma probably wouldn't even have known about the second murder until she arrived home that evening. Lizzie seemingly assigned about as much importance to Abby as she would have assigned to a housecat: "By the way, has anyone seen Fluffy lately?" I guess we might be able to account for this behavior by saying Lizzie was in shock???

[Allen]

Thanks, Kat and Harry for the replies. It seems feasible to me given the fact Ellen's testimony seems to be missing that there could be testimony from other witnesses missing. Maybe their testimony isn't quite so inconsequential. How many of the people who were close to the scene at the time of the murders were called as witnesses, only to testify they had not seen anything out of the ordinary at the time of the murders? I don't see how testimony given by a witness so close to the house, and so close to the time of the murders, could be considered by the police to be inconsequential. If anything it could go to prove there wasn't anyone strange around the house at that time. Also Lubinsky saw Ellen Eagan coming out of a nearby yard, and he also saw our Miss Lizzie coming from the barn? Something about those two sightings seems not quite right to me, but I can't put my finger on it.

I have read that there are those who believe the missing inquest testimony may be in Robinson's files which have yet to be released. I did search the archives and found a few posts dealing with this subject. If Robinson wanted Lizzie's testimony omitted so badly, how better to make sure it is never heard by the jury than to have it disappear? This, unlike awaiting the judges ruling, was a sure method.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-98/04-14-98/a02lo019.htm

http://sand.loper.org/~george/trends/1998/Jul/99.html

Since she sent Dr. Bowen to telegraph Emma prior to the discovery of Abby's body, Emma probably wouldn't even have known about the second murder until she arrived home that evening.

This is an interesting point. All Emma knew was that there was an emergency of some kind involving Andrew. She would not have any knowledge of Abby being murdered until she arrived home and learned the full details of the situation. It would be helpful if Emma's reaction upon hearing about the murders would've been more thoroughly reported. It would be most helpful if her movements would've been as thoroughly reported as Lizzie's or Bridgets were. Even John Morse got more press coverage. Emma takes a back seat to when it comes to news reports almost from the beginning of the whole ordeal.

[john]

I can see Michael Douglas' point regarding Zeta Jones.
Hey! Free trips to hawaii for three at "Could All The World Have Known This Was Coming Down" site.
Other prizes too - Someone??? just won a duckboat and free breast cancer checks for two years.

[Kat]

'It seems feasible to me given the fact Ellen's testimony seems to be missing that there could be testimony from other witnesses missing. Maybe their testimony isn't quite so inconsequential."

--Allen

I have been studying the sequence of events at the inquest and have developed a timeline. I'm cross-referencing when I can. All the people we know of and are part of the record are accounted for- Ellan (Allen) Eagan was called but left out. The story implies she had nothing worthwile to say. I agree that seems suspicious, but it was a private "inquiry" at the discretion of the State/County/District.

The only person involved (other than "Allen Eagan") in some of the sources who we don't hear much of, was a district officer Rhodes there as an official.

Edit here: I am continuing to work to update my timeline and I have made a statement ahead of myself:
Other than Ellan Eagan who does not show in the inquest, we also have Officer Allen (ironic? ) as being listed as a witness in the Evening Standard but not in the Witness Statements as being called- and we certainly have no police official's testimony in the inquest which we inherited. Also, not to confuse, but Prof. Dr. Wood was there briefly with Dr. Dolan, and either may have spoken to the court behind closed doors but that is not recorded- it might be a casual meeting- and the other thing we don't have is a "deposition" of Lurana Harrington which was reported in the Rochester paper August 11. Some of these sources I am using diverge at places, but these 3 at least- Ellan Eagan, Officer Allen and possibly Mrs. Harrington we might expect to have on record but we don't . It might not be assuming too much to hope that Dr. Dolan's statements would have been recorded as well.

[Kat]

The unknown letter written says Bowen was driving fast at 15 minutes to 11. Andrew might have been dying at that moment, but know one knew but the killer.
Can anyone reconcile this oddity of Bowen supposedly at Emery's when Morse was leaving? I think Morse left at 11:20.
I think Bowen claims to have just gotten to the Borden house about then.
He does say in the prelim that he got there at Borden's between 10 after and 20 after- but 10 after is impossible.

[Kat]

Please see 2 posts behind me- I have edited my statement as to the characters involved in the inquest timeline. Thanks!

[Nancie]

It is almost like we are coming around to Brown's
book, interesting, wouldn't Rays be delighted?

[Allen]

Edit here: I am continuing to work to update my timeline and I have made a statement ahead of myself:
Other than Ellan Eagan who does not show in the inquest, we also have Officer Allen (ironic? ) as being listed as a witness in the Evening Standard but not in the Witness Statements as being called- and we certainly have no police official's testimony in the inquest which we inherited. Also, not to confuse, but Prof. Dr. Wood was there briefly with Dr. Dolan, and either may have spoken to the court behind closed doors but that is not recorded- it might be a casual meeting- and the other thing we don't have is a "deposition" of Lurana Harrington which was reported in the Rochester paper August 11. Some of these sources I am using diverge at places, but these 3 at least- Ellan Eagan, Officer Allen and possibly Mrs. Harrington we might expect to have on record but we don't . It might not be assuming too much to hope that Dr. Dolan's statements would have been recorded as well.

I don't think it is assuming too much to hope that Dr. Dolan's statements would have been recorded. Lurana Harrington's statements would have been of some interest I believe, as would Officer Allen's (yes that is ironic ). I'm not sure about working around to Brown's theory though. I'm incredulous about that one. But I do wonder what would be in the statements of the witnesses that appear to be missing. Officer Allen was the first officer at the scene. Lizzie and Bridget were the only one's still at home at the time of the murder. Ellen Eagan was near the Borden house close to time of the murders. Could there be some evidence in these missing statements that could have shed some new light on things? Good work, Kat.

[Susan]

Theres one thing that really bugs me about this Ellan Egan story and thats Lubinsky's testimony, he saw a woman come from the barn and go to the side steps to the house:

Q. Whom did you see?
A. I saw a lady come out the way from the barn right to the stairs back of the house---the north side stairs, from the back of the house.

Well, if we go by his testimony, it had to be the Borden yard he saw!



Heres why I think so, if you look at that drawing of Second Street and the houses in the neighborhood, it looks to be pretty detailed and accurate. The Kelley house doesn't appear to have a barn, but a shed instead and there is no side stairs on the north side of the Kelley house!!!

[Kat]

Oh Officer Allen- I mean Melissa, it's very hard- I thought I was finished but I'm still not.
I am now looking at the Globe and they make it sound so simple but when comparing documents it's a _ _ _ _ _!
I'm going to submit all my hard work with my last revisions to The Hatchet so see you there!

[Kat]

Susan, I love that picture. I have another which is similar also but which looks hand drawn without being published.
What was Ellan Eagan doing on Second Street anyway? It's a block out of her way in the wrong direction.

[Susan]

Can you post the hand drawn one that you have, Kat, it would be neat to see. Well, maybe Eagan was an opportunist, she heard that a woman was seen coming from the back yard on Second Street and thought she would try for her fifteen minutes of fame? They seem to keep pushing this idea that Eagan was seen coming from the Kelley yard, but, I think Lubinsky's testimony is too specific about what he saw with the steps and all. I guess its then a toss-up as to who you believe is telling the truth, Eagan or Lubinsky. I think I side with Lubinsky.

[Kat]

Never mind..

[Kat]

Ooops.

[Allen]

The Witness Statements on page 20:

John Eagan, No. 103 Pearl Street. " Drove up an down Second street several times between 10:30 and 11:15."


Robello page 129:

Profile: Ellen T. ( Hurley) Eagan was born in Ireland, July 1857. She immigrated to the United States in 1874 at the age of seventeen. She was the daughter of Jeremiah Hurley and Mary Carey. Around 1885, Ellen married Owen Eagan. Mr. Eagan was born in Massachussetts, and the son of John Eagan and Catherine ( Hurley) Eagan...

Ok two things strike me as odd about this information. Ellen's mother- in law- had the same maiden name she did. And I wondered was this the same John Eagan who drove up an down Second street several times in 45 minutes? Encompassing both the time that Andrew got home, the time that he was killed, and the time that Bridget was called downstairs by Lizzie. If this is so, that's two Eagans on the same street, at about the same time. The 1880 federal census at Ancesty.com only shows one John Eagan living in Fall River, wife Catherine. Birthplace Ireland. Even if it wasn't her father in law, were they related in any way?

[Kat]

I think John Eagan was her father-in-law. He had a store(?) on Pearl? Wow, I am searching back into my memory from 3 years ago.
I drew a map as to Ellen's route from the other side of Main to Second Street a while ago.
I will look for it.

Harry has him at #20 Pearl St. and we have her at corner of Hope & Mulberry.

[Kat]

Sorry it's so little.
Birds eye view from Hope to Second Street

[Harry]

I think John Eagan was her father-in-law. He had a store(?) on Pearl? Wow, I am searching back into my memory from 3 years ago.
I drew a map as to Ellen's route from the other side of Main to Second Street a while ago. I will look for it.

Harry has him at #20 Pearl St. and we have her at corner of Hope & Mulberry.

I show John Eagan at 20 Pearl per the witness statements, page 20 and Ellen Eagan at the Cor. of Hope & Mulberry, per Rebello, page 129

[Kat]

Thanks for the sources, Har!

(Harry has an ongoing list of addresses to which I refer).

[Allen]

Thanks, guys. Ok what I am wondering, is if the two of them were on Second Street at about the same time, did they mention this to the police? Did they see each other at any time? What exactly did Mr. Eagan see, if he saw anything? And if his daughter in law was feeling sick, why not stop to give her a ride if he did see her there? And obviously not feeling up to par? I also find it interesting that Ellen Eagan states she was also sick for a few days prior to the murder. Was something going around? Was it the bad food because of the heat? I have a million questions going around in my head right now . I also wonder about these pills she "experimented" on herself with. In listing John Eagan's address as it appears in The Witness Statements I inadvertantly switched his address with the house number of the address listed below his. Sarah Gray, No. 103 Second Street. John Eagan, No. 20 Pearl Street is listed in mine as well. That's what I get for balancing it on my lap, and trying to type while holding it open.

[Kat]

I don't see that we have many Eagan experts here.
Maybe you can find out more?
At least you contribute and at least you make good an error, typo...Thanks!

[Kat]

Federal census, Fall River, Mass. 1900
Ellen & Owen Eagan
The address on Hope looks like a 3 digit #. I think the numbering had changed by then.
He had a "Variety Store."
please click on pic

[Kat]

Ellen Eagan, widow, 1920 Federal census, Fall River, Mass.
Notice the Hawthornethwaite (sp?) =Henry Hawthorne?

please clic on pic

[Allen]

Thanks Kat.

[Kat]

Look at that William Williams and Ella Ella!
That's BillSquared!

[Kat]

The Witness Statements on page 20:

John Eagan, No. 103 Pearl Street. " Drove up an down Second street several times between 10:30 and 11:15."

--Allen quoted

I think we should try to figure this out. Since John Eagan had a variety store maybe he was making deliveries? Maybe he was meeting his daughter-in-law? They might have been going door-to-door, soliciting- trying to sell stuff off the back of a wagon? Anybody know anything? Does any author try to explain this?

In the 1920 census, her daughter seems to be 24, born then in 1896.
I used to think Ellen was pregnant when she supposedly was "hurling" on Second street, but not with Mary, I see.

And what relationship were these "other" Eagans to Ellen in the 1900 census?

[Allen]

The Witness Statements on page 20:

John Eagan, No. 103 Pearl Street. " Drove up an down Second street several times between 10:30 and 11:15."

--Allen quoted

I think we should try to figure this out. Since John Eagan had a variety store maybe he was making deliveries? Maybe he was meeting his daughter-in-law? They might have been going door-to-door, soliciting- trying to sell stuff off the back of a wagon? Anybody know anything? Does any author try to explain this?

In the 1920 census, her daughter seems to be 24, born then in 1896.
I used to think Ellen was pregnant when she supposedly was "hurling" on Second street, but not with Mary, I see.

And what relationship were these "other" Eagans to Ellen in the 1900 census?

These are all good questions you posed Kat. I am working on trying to find some answers for them. It may take me awhile though, I am looking for another internet provider. The only trouble with this, there are only so many who provide DSL in this area. Cable internet is very expensive here. So I don't know what I'm going to do just yet. It does strike me as odd that Ellen and her father - in - law were both on Second Street around the time of the murders, but neither mentions seeing the other. From what we know anyway. John said he drove up and down the street several times. Why? Around the time Andrew got home, during the time he was being murdered, and at the time Bridget was called down by Lizzie, he stated he drove up and down the street several times. Why wasn't he questioned further as to what he saw? If he was it wasn't recorded in the Witness Statements. I have also been researching more about the possible missing inquest testimony from the witnesses. I am going to post more on that whenever I am finished.

[john]

Ellan Egan is, or recently was, a living witness. So if this forum is so fabulous, where is her testimony? Then and now? I don't mean to bash anybody, but what is logical about worring about women fishing, when there is something right in front of your face? I figured this crime out to my satisfaction, and hope you all keep poking at it - long live Fall River!

[Allen]

Ellan Egan is, or recently was, a living witness. So if this forum is so fabulous, where is her testimony? Then and now? I don't mean to bash anybody, but what is logical about worring about women fishing, when there is something right in front of your face? I figured this crime out to my satisfaction, and hope you all keep poking at it - long live Fall River!

First of all, who said anything about fishing? I'm lost on that one. What does fishing have to do with Ellen Eagen? I'm happy you've figured this crime out to your satisfaction, whatever that may mean, but I have not. I'm not in on whatever "enlightened" information you may think you have.

[Nancie]

John has the same info we all have but I appreciate
his skills at processing it all and sharing his own thoughts with us. Lizzie fishing is just an example of how we all go off on tangents that really have nothing to do with the case. The dimensions of the
rooms, the clothing, the color of the house, etc etc
we are just disecting it all and it is fun and useful!
I doubt John has solved this case, he is just like the
rest of us! Otherwise, this forum would not be here!

[Audrey]

Well put Nancie....

[john]

Thanks Nancie!
I did solve the case but it was quite by accident and cost me $ 4,000 when I was buying something else and LB was thrown in.
Long live Fall River.

[weber]

John, I just don't get it...If you have the "mystery" solved to your satisfaction, why won't you really spell out the answer for us? You allude to having the answer cost you $4,000 but you won't give us any details.

I think you post just to get a rise out of people...I don't believe you have any more answers than anyone else on this forum. I suspect that you'll come back with some response having to do with toasters, blenders or some appliance.

[john]

I know that I'm not the only one holding back information on here, Weber, and I've given lots of hints which, surprisingly have led to the correct conclusion. I normally go along here just like everybody else, and the particular post which you were referring to regarded a specific answer to nancie and was not directed at you. If you'll note, I lead with Nancie.
There is a true Lizzie book in the making, whether I write it or someone else is superficial. But I guess I wouldn't tell you on here for free what I know - would you do that?
Again I have given plenty of hints, look back and if you're determined enough, perhaps you can come up with it too.

[nbcatlover]

I think there were a number of socio-cultural reasons:

Patriarchal society--must have father's consent.
Dowry--I believe, at a certain social/economic level, the father was expected to PAY the suitor upon fulfillment of the marital promise regardless of the suitor's own wealth.
Elopement--still had a stigma attached to it in the 1930s.
Different attitudes towards sex--it was a woman's duty. Her pleasure didn't count. She was there to breed children, preferably male (Lizzie ANDREW) to carry on a man's legacy and name.
Religious Outlook--the Puritans left their mark on New England--God and Work were major foci. Aloof, cold, reserved were the description of most Yankee WASPs.

Think: Henry James novels or Merchant-Ivory movies.

Lizzie wasn't out of the game yet. She could have been a second or a third wife. You know, like Abby.

The following isn't new, but it's funny:
http://www.nationalreview.com/king/king200408061231.asp

[snokkums]

I think that emma would be the better catch. I think she had a head on her shoulders as lizzie was the one who to me seems to like to party. And have a good time.

[DWilly]

To me Emma seemed to unemotional. Did she ever do much of anything? As for Lizzie partying, wasn't that just that one time thing with Nance?

[snokkums]

I think she partied more than we know about. Seemed like she had a time with the acting people she was running with after her father died.

[theebmonique]

Snok...are you saying that if Lizzie 'partied', that made her not as good of a "catch" as Emma because Emma didn't 'party' ?

Tracy...

[nbcatlover]

I'm playing Devil's Advocate: We all know Emma went to Fairhaven on 7/21 and was supposed to be away for 2 weeks. Is it conclusive that she was at the Brownell residence the entire time from 7/21-84?

Going through old New Bedford Evening Standards looking for the Marion brief about the Mabel F. Swift , two brief social clippings caught my eye and my imagination.

1) 7/22/1892 p.4, col. 6: HEADING: Westport Harbor "Miss Emma E. Borden has been suffering from muscular rhematism is slowly recovering."

2) 7/27/1892 p.4, col. ?: HEADING: Westport Harbor "Miss Emma E. Borden and Miss Mary A. Manchester are visiting relatives in Providence."

Lizzie was visiting Westport on 7/26; Uncle John's horse-trading gypsies were in Westport. Could Emma have possibly been there too?

Lizzie Andrew's been called Lizzie Drew, Elizabeth Andrew, Elizabeth Drew, Lizbeth, Lisabeth, etc. Emma Lenore's been called Emma Leonora and Emma Eleanor. This might explain why Dr. Bowen had to send the telegram to Emma and why Emma did not take 2 earlier trains back to Fall River. We know she had cousins in Providence. And rumours have persisted through the years that the two girls, Lizzie and Emma, made repeated trips to the Davis household in Dartmouth to visit their uncle.

Could this possibly be our Emma?[/i]