Arnold Brown's book

[Angel]

I just bought and am about halfway through Arnold Brown's book. Can I get some opinions on what you all think about it?

[Bob Gutowski]

As I was tormented for nearly a year on the Web by someone who thought the book was gospel truth and the only possible solution to the mystery, maybe I should hold off on giving you an opinion...

[Haulover]

true, true. was it only a year? i thought it went on for several. and it's still a record, i think. i don't think there has ever been anyone so singularly devoted. frankly, that brown worship stirred up a lot of brown resentment.

i did read the brown book very carefully since. i cannot believe the whole conspiracy theory that brown finds necessary. i could actually believe in a secret relative somewhere. but actually brown is only interested in conspiracy anyway. his paranoia drives it.

[Bob Gutowski]

All I know, Eugene, is that I can't see the name "Patricia Cornwell" without shuddering.

(Sorry, Angel, this doesn't reflect on the book itself, just an old disagreement!)

[Kat]

I've heard rumors that Brown knew he was writing fiction but exclaimed *It sells books!*
I heard that Pete Peterson was very upset that the story he told Brown turned into that book.
I heard that Brown believed it thoroughly and was writing the truth as he knew it. I heard there was another book in the works, but was tied up in the judicial system in California- see The Brown Controversy at the LABVM/L web site.
I heard Brown had shredded his second manuscript.
I heard there were chapters extant.
I heard some who met him thought he was a wonderful raconteur.
I heard that other's thought he was an offensive blow-hard.

Just what this case needs: More obfuscation.
Thanks a lot, Mr. Brown.

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/NewResear ... oversy.htm

[Bob Gutowski]

I just read the archived material linked above, and I must say that Arnold Brown was a crackpot - and, as he put it, by reading his rantings, this is "a provable fact!"

More on that. He uses that phrase in relation to his claim that Morse declined the invitation to return for the noon meal. In his zeal, Brown calls this opinion "a provable fact."

Dear lord in heaven, how would one go about proving that? It is as rankling a statement as any of that good writer Victoria Lincoln's unsubstantiated claims that "Lizzie could, in fact, not bear any rebuff, even from a child," or her assurance that Abby's corpse could not be missed even in the shadowy guest room (shutters closed!) because her dress apparently possessed some magical luminous quality ("Even in the darkened room, the old calico showed up.").

[FairhavenGuy]

[rays]Arnold Brown is God, and I know it from my own experience.[/rays]





Carry on.

[nbcatlover]

Angel-

I think what many of us found appealing about Brown's book is that it stopped treating the Borden murders like a locked room mystery. Some of us can visualize how another person could have entered the house.

The Fall River police wanted a quick arrest to avert panic that a madman was on the loose on the streets of Fall River. Suspects got confined to Lizzie, Uncle John and Bridget because it localized the "evil" to one spot, one family.

I don't agree with Brown's conclusions, but the book let people look at other alternatives and examine the gaps in the information; the obvious questions that are never asked by the police, the prosecution or defense. It stimulated "out-of-the-box thinking" about the case.

[Kat]

Remember this?

"How many children has your father?"
"Only two."

[FairhavenGuy]

Or this:

ANDREW: Lizzie. . .I am your father! Join me and together we can rule the galaxy!

LIZZIE: NOOooooooooooo. . . . .

[Bob Gutowski]

I consider Ms. Dunaway one of finest actresses, even if she's pulled her face so tight she looks like a Mexican mummy, and...oh, never mind.

[Angel]

Bob-
Is that an inside joke?

[Bob Gutowski]

One might say that. You're better off NOT going inside this one, dear Angel!

[Angel]

I'm not, Bob, but it is something like that which always makes me feel apart from this group. There's a touch of an "in" group here, and then there's the rest of us who try to become a part of it and never seem to be able to do that. Whether it's because we are relatively new, or don't have all the knowledge the long standing members do, or don't have the writing skills or whatever, it seems like there is a slight feeling of disdain or elitism here that is rather hurtful. It makes me sad.

[Bob Gutowski]

Kat? Stef? What do we do?

It isn't about elitism at all, but merely an unpleasant time we're trying to put behind us, and you must believe that.

[Angel]

Anyway, I finished the Arnold Brown book and found it interesting, but the point at which he goes into the little boy's experiences with Billy Borden almost seemed like a different person was writing it. It seemed to be alot of fabrication at that juncture and he lost his credibility with me at that point. I agree that if there had been so much plotting and maneuvering with the judges, lawyers and higher ups, something would have leaked out at some point. It certainly would explain the wild eyed man, the fellow covered in blood stories on the outskirts of town, the guy who was seen waiting outside the house, etc., but I can't quite buy the whole thing. And I can't imagine Lizzie going through such lengths to protect a madman who was probably an acute embarrassment in the family.

[Bob Gutowski]

And with everyone knowing everyone else's business in that town, you'd think, if Brown's story was correct, there'd be plenty of wagging tongues - at least, the lower-classes, and at first.

[Angel]

I really don't understand about this whole "illegitimate" son thing. Is that actually fact, just a rumor, something made up by authors, or what? Where did that come from?

[doug65oh]

The illegitimate son theory...that's something that (if I remember correctly) is entirely a "Brownism"... Actually ... isn't there a little squib somewhere in the vaults - an interview transcript posted by Kat perhaps - in which Brown actually admitted he made it up virtually of whole cloth? Sounds terribly familiar... I forget the wording exactly, but it was very simply stated.

[Stefani]

I'm not, Bob, but it is something like that which always makes me feel apart from this group. There's a touch of an "in" group here, and then there's the rest of us who try to become a part of it and never seem to be able to do that. Whether it's because we are relatively new, or don't have all the knowledge the long standing members do, or don't have the writing skills or whatever, it seems like there is a slight feeling of disdain or elitism here that is rather hurtful. It makes me sad.

I guess there is sort of an inside group here, if you count among the members of this inside group people who have been posting on this case for five or six years---which is well over a dozen people now. You have to understand that there are members here who have been doing Lizzie for decades and decades and decades. They can't be expected to speak about the case thinking of their audience---some of whom may be new to discussing the case. The stream moves quickly in places, so just jump in and come along for the ride. Or sit back and watch the others play in the current---whichever you choose is up to you!

There used to be a Lizzie Borden forum on DarkRose and then there was mine on Arborwood when DarkRose when kerflunk and then this one when Arborwood decided to charge money. Three incarnations in about six years. That is a lot of talk and a lot of chances to get to know people.

Some of the discussions go back a long way, and your question about Brown brings some of that up. Please don't think of us as hateful if we harken back to bad old or good old days and mention something you might not know about. Just ask what we mean and we will tell you! It isn't meant to alienate anyone or make anyone feel left out. Trust me on that point, please.

Also, as the years go on, we have finally physically met many of the members here--so there are closer friendships than others all around. Some of us are even best friends because of Lizzie. And business partners and email buddies and customers and such. I don't know of any romances that have come from the study of Lizzie---so far.

Anyway, my advice is this: if you don't get the joke, just ask what the person meant. Kept the communication gates open and you will see the warm results.

The elitism remark is the one that jabs me right where I live. I started this entire web site as an ANTI-ELITIST Lizzie study area. I and Harry and Kat were the ones who made almost all the primary sources available FOR FREE to anyone who wanted to study the case. The old Dark Rose forum that I mention above was chocked full of true elitists--people who pushed people around and flamed those who had not read the sources, which at that time cost a ton of money to get. Before Harry did all his transcriptions, it cost you over $200 for the primary sources ($75 for the Trial, $80 for the prelim, $30 for the Inquest, $25 for the Witness Statements). Now most of that stuff is free, here on LizzieAndrewBorden.com, for the taking.

I wanted to create a level playing field---a place where anyone could come and play and study and learn and hash it out. I am not upset by your remark, just wanting you to know that this place is heaven compared to what used to be in its place.

The longer you hang out with us the more you will see how wonderfully giving the members are here. Heck, the forum is a treasure trove of research! Sorry for the rant. It just hit close to home for me.

[Kat]

Ooops. Didn't see your post, Stefani, until I submitted mine!
~ ~ ~ ~
"Gordon Bordon" I call him.

Knowlton Papers:

"Letter, handwritten in ink."

"HOTEL KENMORE

Albany N.Y. Aug 12 1892

District Atty. Knowlton

Fall River, Mass.

Dear Sir:-

Feeling quite safe from all possible arrest, I write you This information regarding the Fall River Mystery. The Killing of old man Bordon and his wife was not perportrated by any immediate member of his family as is generally supposed. But They were put out of the way By an illgitimate
Son whom Bordon refused to recognize after the Mother of his off-spring died a number of years ago in a certain Mass. Insane Asylum of a Broken heart. That son is now twenty five years of age. He was not known to any member of the family save the old man and woman. When that sons
Mother was sent to the asylum through Bordon, the Son was put in a New York Orphan Asylum. When he was subsequently bound out to a farmer.

When he reached his age he left the farmer and went to Bordon and demanded recognition and some sort of an understanding. We mutually agreed to a certain contract part orally & part written. What the contract was does not matter here more than to say - He was to be educated at his,
Bordons expense. Allowed a certain sum of money a year and when completed course preparatory to College was to be paid a final sum of $5,000 to commence life with and then they were quits. Through the influence of his Wife who disliked the said son because he once insulted her when she made a stinging remark regarding that sons mother in his presence was persuaded to renounce his obligations & promises after he had partly filled them. The son repeatedly thereafter tried to induce Bordon to carry out his agreement as he was abundently able to do so. He wouldn't listen. So to make a long story short the son Brooded over his and his mothers past troubles and resolved upon Vengeance, with the result known to all. One point More Lizzie Bordon my half sister may have heard of me and it is to shield her fathers infamy and good name that she is taking the course she has so nobly with stood. The girl is entirely innocent and it is only that justice may be done her that I write this otherwise I would not have written this for I fairly hate the Bordon name.

The instrument the deed was done with was a Lathers Hatchet and was droped over board from a Fall River steamer at the Dock. Entrance to the House was gained by a front window afterwards fastened egress by side
window. The time of Revenge about 11:45 I think.

And the illigitimate who took the revenge is the Writer of this confession. No use to track me for it will be an utter impossibilty to do so. At the hour this letter is mailed I shall take a train for hundreds of miles away.
Yours Truly
Phillip Gordon Reed
______________________________

See Rebello, pages 377-379 for the accepted parentage of William Borden.

These papers, known as The Knowlton Papers were donated to the FRHS in 1989. Arnold Brown was there doing research for his book at times prior to his publish date 1991. It has been my theory that he had some sort of access to the material. I've not verified that. The Knowlton Papers were finally published in 1994. The Hilliard papers were also donated around 1989, but have yet to be published.

[Haulover]

here's a sample from rebello i quickly found in the archives (i think from one of kat's old posts), and there is much more there.
_______________________________



--Rebello's research on William s. Borden, pg. 373+

"Profile: Charles Lott Church Borden was born in Fall River, November 12, 1811, and was the tenth of twelve children born to Joseph Borden (1763-1843) and Susan Church. Charles Borden was a carpenter and was involved in church work all his life. He was a member of the First Baptist Church in 1846. He later assisted in the formation of Second Baptist Church, serving as a deacon for many years.

Deacon Borden was married twice. His first marriage, at the age of twenty-eight, was to Phebe Hathaway, age twenty-three, on October 16, 1839. She was the daughter of Michael and Hannah (Davis) Hathaway of Freetown, Massachusetts. Phebe was born in Freetown, July 30, 1816. Charles L. and Phebe (Hathaway) Borden were the parents of six children: Charles A. Borden, Amanda M. Borden, Hannah H. Borden, Eliza Ann Borden, Eliza Ann Borden (2nd.), and William S. Borden."
.....

"The last son, William S. Borden, was born in Fall River, April 20, 1854 (see marriage record, Weld Genealogy, p. 253 and Federal Census, 1900) William, age twenty, a laborer and peddler, married seventeen year old Rebecca Francis Gammons of East Taunton, Massachusetts, October 14, 1874. They were married in Raynham, Massachusetts, by Rev F. A. Reed. Rebecca was born in East Taunton (January, 1858- ?). She was the daughter of Lewis B. Gammons, a nailer who worked for the Old Colony Iron Company, and A. Frances Gammons. Rebecca was the sister of Frederick B., a shoemaker and Jesse B. Gammons. The Gammons and Bordens all resided at 38 Liberty Street from 1872-1901. Within those years, William moved twice (1885-1893, 1896-1897) to a house at the corner of Caswell and Staples Streets located about a half mile from Liberty Street. This was the home of Eldridge Staples and his son, Charles G., both farmers. William returned to Liberty Street in 1898. Two months after he was married, William was committed to Taunton Lunatic Hospital in Taunton, Massachusetts, December 8, 1874, and released December 2, 1875. William S. Borden committed 'suicide by hanging.' He was found hanging from a tree on New Boston Road in Fall River, on April 17, 1901 (death record). Hospital records and newspapers accounts of William Borden's suicide reported that his two sisters, 'Eliza Ann Borden [2nd.] and Amanda (Borden) Taylor and two aunts were at the asylum in Taunton at the time William committed suicide. He was survived by his wife who had been "ill and ...partially helpless for some time." ' Funeral services were conducted by Rev. Mr. H. H. Loud at the Congregational church in Taunton. Burial took place at King's Furnace Cemetery (King Cemetery) in East Taunton, Massachusetts. His wife and her two brothers moved to Brockton, Massachusetts, in 1909. Rebecca Borden's last known residence was in Bridgewater, Massachusetts, in 1917."

[Kat]

We were referring to an old member who did not join us in our incarnation here. That was the first time we let that out of our system.
Aren't you going to Fall River in the Fall, Angel?
Tell them you are a Lizzie Borden Society Member!

[Haulover]

since we're letting it out
(NOTE: this is trivial)
i had forgot that it corresponded with the forum transfer -- and that he was convinced that he had been locked out of the forum at some point -- he thought it was a conspiracy -- which was actually a great coda to his thesis.

[Bob Gutowski]

Oh, lord, I'd forgotten that!

[Harry]

Angel, let me echo Stefani's remarks. We NEVER mean to be elitist or try to exclude anyone. It is a natural thing that after many years at these forums that some members know others better and friendships form. That does not mean there is no room for others to join in.

One particular poster on the previous forum had an obsession with Brown's book and would turn every topic (and I mean EVERY topic) into a discussion on Brown.

Brown's book is a legitimate item for discussion. Personally, I don't think much of his theory as he offers no sources as proof. The "Final solution.." it's not.

What always bothered me about his book is that it may very well be the best selling book on the Borden case. For we purists on the case that's troublesome.

[FairhavenGuy]

You folks had a lot longer experience with him than I did. I joined in on the Arborwood forum and quite enjoyed taking jabs at the Brown enthusiast. He was such as easy target. Between his one-track mind and his belief that old fashioned horse sense and personal experience pointed to Brown's conclusion being the ONLY possible explanation, I though he was a hoot.

In fact, sad to say, one of my last posts on Arborwood was suggesting that he sign on here, as everyone else was. . .

I wonder if he lurks. . .

[FairhavenGuy]

Oh, and he posted each response to others posts separately.

[FairhavenGuy]

So there would be several posts in a row that all adressed different thoughts and arguments.

[nbcatlover]

I've been reading the Archive regarding the Genealogy of William S. Borden to refresh my memory. If Andrew did have an illegitimate, insane son, it really does seem to be someone other than Bill.

The mind does play tricks on people. I remember something in the book about the smell he identified with Bill Borden. It was the smell from butchering. But there are a lot of ties to butchering (as an occupation) around the Lizzie story.

[doug65oh]

...and at least one lesson in Latin per week - Morituri te salutamus and...stuff like that there...

[nbcatlover]

And one required summer reading. "The Jungle" was meant to show the plight of new immigrants and the poverty they faced. Instead it became an expose on the booming meat-packing industry.

Those knockers could floor a cow with a single blow...

http://sinclair.thefreelibrary.com/

[1bigsteve]

I just bought and am about halfway through Arnold Brown's book. Can I get some opinions on what you all think about it?

Well, Angel, I never liked the book. I remember being excited about it when I bought it new in 1992 but as I read it I got the strange impression that Arnold Brown was looking at his readers as clueless and he was their Guru. I felt as if he were saying: "Don't question my judgement. The answers are out there and together we will find them! Hang on to my coat tails and I will lead you to the promised land!"

Excuuuuuse me?!?

I felt he was too full of himself and was passing his view points off as fact without proving his points. The whole tangled web he spun did not have any ring of truth to it. It just seem's too far out in right field for me. It may have happened the way he say's it did but I just have a hard time swallowing it. It sound's like a work of fiction to me. And those pictures he had in his book: lousey! Frank Speiring's pictures are much better.

So personally I was disappointed with the book. I still own it but only because it is about the Borden case. Anyway that is my view on the matter.

-1bigsteve (o:

[DWilly]

Excuuuuuse me?!?

Frank Speiring's pictures are much better.

-1bigsteve (o:

I hope you're right because I just ordered this book from Abebooks. I can't wait to get it. Hopefully, by the end of this week.

[nbcatlover]

I started re-reading Spierling this morning. There is a reason he is known as controversial. In parts he should be known as a fiction writer.

[1bigsteve]

I started re-reading Spierling this morning. There is a reason he is known as controversial. In parts he should be known as a fiction writer.

I had the same feelings, nb. His theory was a little far-fetched but there may be more truth in this book than in Brown's. More plausable anyway.

-1bigsteve (o:

[Audrey]

The main thing in Brown's book that was almost laughable was his theory that strappingly strong Lizzie tried to buy prussic acid to heave at Billy Borden in case she needed "self defense"....

[1bigsteve]

The main thing in Brown's book that was almost laughable was his theory that strappingly strong Lizzie tried to buy prussic acid to heave at Billy Borden in case she needed "self defense"....

I must have missed that comment in Brown's book, Audrey, or perhaps I was laughing so hard I couldn't read it. I imagin the fumes from hydrogen cyanide would be enough to kill them both. A dangerous weapon.

But Brown did have a way with words. Sort of.

-1bigsteve (o:

[Tracie]

Hi folks,

I must say that Arnold Brown's book made me remember my interest in Lizzie. I received it as a gift one Christmas from my mom. It renewed my interest and got me started again. The first book I read was when I was a child and I had the hardest time trying to figure out the floor plans of the Borden house. So I found the ARborwood website and got crazy with all the information made available to us. Thank you Stef, Harry and Kat!!

I remember Rays well and as frustrating as he could be, we had alot of laughs with him as well. You could always count on Rays to debate anything that wasn't from Arnold Brown.

Tracie

[Kat]

Hi Tracie!
I recall being very impressed with the writing of Brown when first we read it. It was a book that was different. It wasn't like any other Lizzie book.
I was convinced after the first day in 1991. But that only lasted a week or so. I count how good a book is by how long I believe it afterwards.
I fell out from under the spell rather quickly.

I'd been looking it over today actually and Stef and I had written all over the inside.
We wrote all over the inside of Masterton's book as well.
Stef loves me to annotate first- she gets a kick out of reading my comments.
Maybe I could make some $ selling annotated versions of Lizzie books?

[1bigsteve]

As I was tormented for nearly a year on the Web by someone who thought the book was gospel truth and the only possible solution to the mystery, maybe I should hold off on giving you an opinion...

Oh, I remember now. Your the guy who did not agree with ME on EVERYTHING Brown said! How dare you! Where is my voodoo doll!?!

Don't you just hate those types of attitudes, Bob? I've had run ins with those types on other forums. There is always some "know-it-all" who has to be right and everyone else is wrong. They can't stand to be corrected or proved wrong. It's enough to make you want to take a hatchet to them... Oopps!

-1bigsteve (o:

[Kat]

Well, I can't speak for Bob, but IMO our member was not quite like that. He was like that character that Lee-ann mentioned- always trying to roll that boulder up a hill.
He could be snide but he was rarely mean, and I must say he had a lot of patience- I think some members would agree on that. He was more like a broken record, the needle stuck in one groove. And he would ask us to try to prove a negative, which was frustrating. Heavan only knows if we frustrated him.
He wasn't any Type which I've ever met before- or since.

[Haulover]

a broken record impervious to criticism. a one-track mind -- that's not often encountered -- here for one purpose only. a monument to a theory. determination can be a virtue -- that i admire. the consistent suspicion of any intuitive or creative turn of mind is what isolated him. actually, my biggest question was what motivated him in the first place. i asked him this once, and he simply reiterated the theory. he made himself an easy scapegoat for frustration. if he was right, we're in serious trouble, aren't we?

[Kat]

Thanks for your take on the man, Eugene. You have a creative way of expressing it.
I used to joke that HE was Arnold Brown and was trying to sell more books. Or Brown's legatee.

[doug65oh]

This is sounding strangely like a eulogy. The moments I recall most were those occasional, all-too-rare times when he’d drop some hint (like a bread crumb in the forest) suggesting that there was at one time a life beyond that of shill-boy, perpetual trumpeter the words of “the great God Brown.” Several times when these hints be dropped I asked – both from interest and some genuine desire of an insight into what really made the man tick; it was my effort to “meet him on his own ground” you might say – and it was always, always fruitless. My questions always went ignored, or rebuffed.

Oh well, no skin off my snout, said I. If nothing else there was always the chance of picking up a little Latin now and again – he was nearly as free with that as with the “bastardly murderous offspring who stank much like stale ‘horse water’.”

As some might wear clothing or authority casually, it seemed he almost wore the Brown theory like a shield, or medieval armor, which he’d gladly thrust or parry with whenever the need arose.

I wonder if Chris might have been right some months back: He's probably out there right now, back of his yard closely inspecting some tree for signs of borer damage as the twilight fades, cursing ever louder as the pests and the darkness take over...