The front door key lock

[Smudgeman]

Talking about the locks on the front door, didn't Abby tell someone that "somebody" or "they" have taken my key? I can't remember where this source comes from. Also, wasn't Andrew carrying home a lock of some sort when he arrived from downtown, or was that just speculation? Makes you wonder if the lock on the front door was changed at some point?

[Kat]

Since I'm the one who always brings that up, you can bet I will remind everyone - please check my posts & I will give source.
For now, see the first page of this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=2648&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Not everyone has the book, Proceedings.

[Kat]

Also, for the source transcription, see the Privy:
viewtopic.php?t=37

[Harry]

In that same Proceedings transcription that Kat made and refers to above there is this entry:

"e. Mr. Benjamin T. Hart--saw Mr. (B?) ringing bell when I went down to Pleasant St. I saw time by City Hall clock and it was 10:40. He rang doorbells both sides, no one came to door. "

This ties in with what looks like doorbells on both side of the door on the photo of the 92 Second St. door I posted above. The time of 10:40 is about the time Andrew came home.

I couldn't find any further references to Mr. Hart but thought it interesting that he mentions bells on both sides. That's curious in itself.

Also, anybody have any thoughts on why the front door as shown in this photo is so different from the door in Phillips' photo. This photo also shows something in the middle of the door. A mail slot? The missing Borden doorplate mentioned by Stuart?

[Angel]

I always KNEW you were a good lookin' guy, Harry. Very rugged.

[Harry]

Thanks, the hair transplants have done wonders.

[Smudgeman]

Since I'm the one who always brings that up, you can bet I will remind everyone - please check my posts & I will give source.
For now, see the first page of this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=2648&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Not everyone has the book, Proceedings.

Thank you Kat. So who is Abby referring to when she says "they" have taken her key? It could only be Andrew, Lizzie, Emma, or Bridget? I am not familiar with PROCEEDINGS. Where can I get the book? So Abby was missing her keys on Tuesday, 2 days before the murders? The statement from "In response to message #3" is confusing.

[Smudgeman]

Oh yeah, Harry the new "do" is quite becoming on you!

[Yooper]

Since I'm the one who always brings that up, you can bet I will remind everyone - please check my posts & I will give source.
For now, see the first page of this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=2648&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Not everyone has the book, Proceedings.

Thank you Kat. So who is Abby referring to when she says "they" have taken her key? It could only be Andrew, Lizzie, Emma, or Bridget? I am not familiar with PROCEEDINGS. Where can I get the book? So Abby was missing her keys on Tuesday, 2 days before the murders? The statement from "In response to message #3" is confusing.

The term "they" implies more than one person, so some combination of Emma, Andrew, Bridget, and Lizzie took Abby's key. I doubt if Andrew would have needed a second person to demand a key from anyone in the household. Abby would have probably used the term "he" rather than "they" if Andrew had taken her key. Bridget would have jeopardized her job to act in combination with Lizzie and/or Emma to take Abby's key. It is difficult to imagine the gain outweighing the risk from Bridget's perspective. That leaves Lizzie and Emma.

[Kat]

I was also thinking that Abbie very well might use the collective term "they" in order to not differentiate amongst her family members to an outsider, tho friend, Mrs. Dr. Bowen.

If she said *he* it would be known automatically. If she said *she* it would probably imply Lizzie to her friend. A "they" is non-committal.

[Kat]

I just noticed this in Muriel Arnolds' The Hands of Time. Her artist probably stared at the photo while drawing and might have noticed more detail. While I don't see a key hanging out of the keyhole we do see the repetition of that oval- shaped thing I saw on one side- she shows it on both sides as Susan opined. I still don't know what *they* are.
I'm only showing a very small segment of the drawing because of the books' distinct artwork renditions.

I'm not saying this is a difinitive view. I don't know her source- whether she used an original photo or the same one we have been staring at.

I have written the source on the picture:

[Susan]

Thanks for the pic, Kat, I knew I saw a portion on the right of the door of one of those things. Don't know if you caught it, but, I posted a current day pic of the inside of the front door on pg. 2 of this thread, there are 2 different somethings in place of the original somethings. These new things look like small tubes, not at all similar to the originals. Perhaps Shelley might be able to answer what the current day items are on the door frame?

[SteveS.]

2 door bells...........2 different tenement apartments when Andrew bought the house.

[Kat]

Yes I did examine the photo you posted Susan, thanks!
I could barely see those things on each side- on the inside- but once I know they are there I can see them!

I think Harry wants to know if this old picture of the 1892-93 outer door looks the same to us as the old 1892-93 inside shot of the door- if that is a wholly wooden door with inset wooden panels?

There is a question as to whether the door now is still original...I was told during an interview that it is, but probably not the locks.

And since on the inside we don't see a mail slot- that thing in the middle on the outside might be the nameplate we have heard of?

[Harry]

2 door bells...........2 different tenement apartments when Andrew bought the house.

Yes, the two doorbells probably do go back to the time when there were two tenants.

We know also that at the time of the murders there was a bell on the second floor over the senior Borden's bedroom door. That would have been one of the entrances to the second apartment. Bridget testified that she never heard it ring. She was asked if that bell was connected to the front door and she said she didn't know. But Bridget was only there when the house was occupied solely by the Bordens.

However, it would have been a tricky wiring job to get from the front door to the Borden bedroom door.

[william]

Hello Harry,

What was the source of energy for the door-bells? Batteries ? Were they available in 1892? - or - were they pull-type mechanical door-bells??

[Harry]

That's a great question, Bill. The two buttons on there now would seem to indicate they were electrically operated. But when they were installed I have no idea. Could those slot like objects, mentioned by Kat, behind where the front door buttons are, be the place where the batteries were?

If it was battery operated you have to wonder how long batteries lasted in those days. I can't see Andrew springing for new batteries every so often when a mechanical bell would work just as fine.

I've read at one site the electric door bell was invented in 1831. I know they had them, at least a few, in Washington during the Civil War. In a book "In The Shadow of Lincoln's Death" it says, "The exact date when electric doorbells came into use in the United States has proved elusive. It is certain, though, that several years passed after Lincoln's death [1865] before electric doorbells were installed for domestic use. ..."

[william]

After submitting my message to the Forum, I checked Google for some answers. It seems that dry cells became available to the public around 1896.

I remember the "pull type" mechanical door bell. As I recall the "pull" was located in the lower central part of the door. The box on the inside of the door held "the works. Are there any marks in the old paint on the inside of the door of the Borden house that would indicate such a device had been installed?

[Angel]

I remember seeing in old houses something like turnkeys that you would turn in one direction and it would ring a bell. It needed no form of power other than just turning it.

[Yooper]

I wonder if there was electric service to the Borden house. If Andrew installed radiators, what would have circulated the water? Possibly an electric pump on the boiler?

[Susan]

The actual bell part of the Borden's doorbell was located in the kitchen and there was one in Andrew and Abby's bedroom. Info from Bridget's trial testimony. From what I've read on the Daniell cell is that it was quite common and in use for about 100 years to power doorbells, telegraphs and telephones. So, its quite possible that the Borden's doorbell was powered by such.

I also saw that there was a system for doorbells that involved a long wire, small pulleys in the wall, a spring loaded clapper for the bell and a sort of pull that went on the outside of the house to activate the bell. I imagine that it worked much like those bells that were used in boxing rings or possibly still are.

[theebmonique]

I remember seeing in old houses something like turnkeys that you would turn in one direction and it would ring a bell. It needed no form of power other than just turning it.

My Aunt's old house used to have a bell like that. That house had so many good memories for me, that I drive by it now and then hoping to see a for sale sign.





Tracy...

[Curryong]

This thread has, on the first page, a photo of the door and locks. Hopefully they will be useful.

[twinsrwe]

Thanks, Curryong, good job finding this thread!

[irina]

Fantastic thread! My head is spinning just now, but great information. Thanks, Curryong!

[leitskev]

Some thoughts about this front door. It is assumed that Lizzie locked the door with the inside key so that Andrew would not walk in and discover what she was about to do. Maybe.

So when did Lizzie supposedly lock it, before she went up to kill Abby, or after the fact? If before, she was trying to make sure Andrew didn't walk in on her killing. If after, the idea would be to make sure Andrew didn't come home and go up and discover Abby's corpse.

Let's think all this through.
1) the only reason that I am aware of to lock the door with the inside key is to prevent someone outside WITH A KEY from coming in. The bolt lock and the outside key lock would be sufficient to keep a stranger out.
2) so who wasn't home that had a key? As far as we know, Andrew and Emma. There would be no reason to give Morse a key during his visit, I don't think. And he was ushered out the back door by Andrew.
3) Andrew never went up to the girls side of the house, so there was no chance of Andrew discovering Abby's corpse. If Lizzie locked the door AFTER killing Abby, she had to have been worried about someone else coming home, and that would only leave Emma. But that is unlikely, with Emma at the beach.
4) so if Lizzie locked the door, she likely did it before killing Abby. Her only motive would have been a worry that Andrew would come home early. But of course Andrew had left between 15 minutes and a half hour before. This still probably makes the most sense. It's also possible she was worried Bridget, in the yard, would come in the front door and hear something.
5) but other possibilities have to be explored. There are only 3 people that could lock the door with that indoor key: Lizzie, Bridget and Abby. Bridget ended being surprised by the locking, so it's not her. But could there be a reason for Abby to lock the door with the indoor lock?

It's hard to imagine too many scenarios where Abby needs to use the indoor lock. Again, only Andrew and Emma were not home and had keys. Is there some reason Abby wanted to keep Andrew out? Bridget was outside, and she would have a key too, so could Abby have wanted to make sure Bridget didn't enter the front door? Could Abby have been searching the guest room for something of a sensitive nature?

[mysterium]

If I am reading all of this correctly, no one knows when the locks present when the murders occurred were installed.

My question refers to the account Lizzie gave to a friend regarding her return from her European tour. She returned home just a few months before the murders occurred, if I am remembering correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong about this. She told her friend that she returned home from her trip late after everyone had already gone to bed. Her family was not expecting her home that night. In her story she said that Andrew was so elated at seeing her trunk in the entryway that next morning that he bounded up the stairs to welcome her back home. If those additional locks were in place at that time, then there is no way she could have gotten in upon her return that evening without waking someone in the house. Right? So in my mind, either the additional locks were installed sometime after her arrival home after her trip but before the murders or Lizzie totally made up the story or at least enhanced it.

[camgarsky4]

Mysterium -- since you asked, the Europe trip was in 1890, approximately 2 years before the murders.

The story above was in an article published just after the murders and the friend quoted was either Mrs. Brigham or Holmes....I can look it up if you want to know which.

The story was told in the context of whether the Borden family, and her father in particular, had good relationships with Lizzie. As you note, the source of the story is Lizzie herself.

[mysterium]

Camgarsky .. thanks for the correction. I am just trying to understand the Borden family obsession with locks. I know about the property break-ins, but it still seems excessive to me. Bridgett's account even states that she told Lizzie she could lock the door after she went out to wash windows, and she was just going out in the yard. Was the area of the Borden home in a high crime area in Fall River for that time period? Were other neighbors as obsessed with locking their doors, etc.

Again, thanks for your help

[camgarsky4]

Based on some recent threads, it appears I don't view the locked door issue as many on the board.....so please keep that in mind.

Here are some thoughts that relate to the locks and locking at the house:
1) August 4th, I don't think the front was unlocked until Bridget opened it for AJB. I speculate that Lizzie relocked the triple locks as she came down the stairs to join AJB in the dining room just after Bridget let him in. Of course, this assumes that Bridget did hear Lizzie make a laughing like sound upstairs at that time and that Lizzie was up there (which I think she was).
Remember that ordinarily the front door was only locked by the spring lock during the daytime. Lizzie "forgot" to unlock the bolts that day.
2) I think all or most of the interior doors with locks had locks since the original construction of the bldg. as a two story duplex. The doors with locks could have been the external doors for the two separate apartments and the locks remained after the conversion to a single residence. I don't think its odd that interior doors locked often. My 20 year old sons lock their bedroom doors and they say it is for privacy....that my wife and I have a bad habit of walking in uninvited.
3) Great call out on Bridget offering to lock up when she washed the windows. Again, speculating, but I suspect that is a household behavior that became more pronounced after the prior year's break-in. I don't view this as an odd reaction. I live in a very nice neighborhood. Last year, the house three houses down from us had a non-local schizophrenic stranger randomly pick our neighborhood and this neighbors house to go in the backyard and linger. Their camera caught him in action. This gentlemen had a AR-15 and peered in all the windows. Ended harmlessly when he left without doing anything. He was caught in a similar situation many miles away a few days later. Point of story is that I now keep my fenced backyard gates padlocked. Irritates my kid who mows the yard, but I don't care. Makes me feel better knowing that a random person can't easily just stroll into my backyard. We all react differently to perceived threats.
4) All that said, the neighborhood around the Borden home does seem to have had its share of burglaries, etc, so after hearing about a number of them and then his own house burglarized, AJB told everyone to tight it up. Search Newspapers.com for house burglary articles in 1890's Fall River and you will have hours of reading opportunities.

In a nutshell, and I realize I may be in the minority on this, I don't think the lock doors specifically signal that the family had dysfunctions (which they had plenty of). However, I most definitely think there are instances where the doors and locks impacted how those couple of days played out.