Stuff being buried?

[snokkums]

I was reading thru some old post, and came across a post posted on December 21, 2004 about stuff like clothing rug piece and the like being buried. I have never heard of anything in this case being buried. Did this really happen? And why did the police allow this to happen if it did at all.

What's the deal on this?

[1bigsteve]

From what I remember reading on this forum is that the Borden's bloody clothes were buried in their back yard behind the barn and then dug up again, if I remember that right. I don't know why the police would bury them there but then they left the bodies on the dinning room table over night. Times were different then. You might do a search and see what comes up, Snokks. I'm still trying to figure out when and why that tree in front of the Borden's house was removed and what kind of tree it was.

-1bigsteve (o:

[Kat]

If you go to this link and download the free Witness Statements there will be info in there on this.

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Resources ... uments.htm

BTW: The bodies probably weren't laid out on the dining table. The undertakers had tables for that and adapted to the room they had to work in.

[Harry]

I ran across this curious paragraph in the Fall River Herald of August 12, 1892 regarding the clothes buried in the yard:

"Dr. Dolan sent an express wagon into Third street about 10 o’clock last night and had the box containing the clothes worn by victims dug up from the earth behind the barn, transported through Dr. Chagnon’s yard and carried to the central station. ..."

Why through Dr. Chagnon's yard? The crowd at 10 o'clock could not have been that big and it was a full week after the murders.

[JoAnne]

This doesn't have to do with the buried clothes; but, I have wondered what happened to the blue bengaline dress that was evidence at the trail. Did Lizzie get it back and did she ever wear it again as a celebration dress, do you think?

[Yooper]

I ran across this curious paragraph in the Fall River Herald of August 12, 1892 regarding the clothes buried in the yard:

"Dr. Dolan sent an express wagon into Third street about 10 o’clock last night and had the box containing the clothes worn by victims dug up from the earth behind the barn, transported through Dr. Chagnon’s yard and carried to the central station. ..."

Why through Dr. Chagnon's yard? The crowd at 10 o'clock could not have been that big and it was a full week after the murders.

I wonder if this might have been an attempt to avoid attracting a crowd. Is an express wagon a police vehicle? If so, a police wagon headed up second street to the Borden residence would probably have been noticed. The errand taking place at 10 o'clock that night might further support an attempt at discretion on the part of Dr. Dolan.

[Harry]

This doesn't have to do with the buried clothes; but, I have wondered what happened to the blue bengaline dress that was evidence at the trail. Did Lizzie get it back and did she ever wear it again as a celebration dress, do you think?

There is this that was in a Boston Globe article of June 21, 1893, describing the scene of Lizzie leaving the courthouse in New Bedford after the trial:

"Next an express wagon arrived, and into it was dumped a trunk, several boxes and that old lounge on which Andrew Borden was killed, the blood spots being concealed beneath a wrapping of cloth. Those boxes and that trunk contained the "exhibits," from A to Z, hatchets, axes, old iron and lead, and so on, those "exhibits" which hardly reached the jury at all after their retirement. The ghoulish, ghastly lot of stuff was carted off."

It doesn't specifically mention the dress but we know that it was part of the evidence submitted to the jury. Was it in the trunk? Maybe. We know that some of the evidence ended up in Jennings' hip bath collection but not all.

[Kat]

Thanks Har!
I've found the reference to the evidence, and the next step as to what may have happened to it. This is from Terence's Collection:

[Kat]

I was reading thru some old post, and came across a post posted on December 21, 2004 about stuff like clothing rug piece and the like being buried. I have never heard of anything in this case being buried. Did this really happen? And why did the police allow this to happen if it did at all.

What's the deal on this?

Well, we've found some things out about the evidence that was buried- snokkums- did you get to read The Witness Statements as suggested for info?

Does anyone remember an allusion to *the mementos of an interesting occasion* as explained in the Pearson/Knowlton Correspondence? (Or was it?)

At least we found out about the dress! So far that is...we don't know if anyone called for the trunk...

[Nadzieja]

Did they return everything after the trial? Articles like the bloody clothes, I'm sure they would have disposed of it or by law would they have to attempt to return it? Even today, does evidence get returned to the person if the person is acquitted? If not does it get stored in case it is ever needed again?

[diana]

Does anyone remember an allusion to *the mementos of an interesting occasion* as explained in the Pearson/Knowlton Correspondence? (Or was it?)

Pearson says he heard from the daughter of Senator Lodge who heard from Moody that Lizzie sent Moody some souvenirs of the trial. Frank Knowlton suggests this was an "improbable" scenario and downplays its veracity referring to "fanciful" stories coming from the Lodge descendants.


". . . In a letter to Mr. Frank W. Knowlton, son of Hosea M. Knowlton, dated October 29, 1930, Pearson wrote: "Did I tell you that Miss Lizbeth sent a collection of photographs of the scene, bodies, &c., as souvenirs, to Mr. Moody. I have this on the authority of the daughter of Senator Lodge, formerly Mrs. Augustus Gardner, who had it from Mr. Moody." On October 31, 1930, Mr. Knowlton replied, "I hope you will pardon me if I was a little skeptical about the alleged souvenirs sent to Mr. Moody. We get some pretty fanciful things from the descendants of Mr. Lodge, particularly in the female line, so that I don't take much stock in what I hear. Mr. Moody was a very good friend of my father's and used to visit us almost every summer. There again I am surprised, if it is true, that I never heard of it. Frankly, it is quite improbable." (from Rebello page 298)

[Kat]

Oh thank you, Diana!
So it was referred to as *a collection of photographs.*
But not a transcript or a dress or physical evidence... I wasn't sure.
So Knowlton's son disproves the *Mementos* angle.
Thanks again.