Ghost Adventures

[Bronte]

I am a "Newbie" this will be my second post to this group so please bare with me..I was watching "Ghost Adventures" this morning which is something I do not like but they mentioned "The Lizzie Borden House" and I thought why not..The main ghost hunter Zac was interviewing the resident psychic and one of the tour guides and during one clip of a seance that took place the psychic asked Mr.Borden if he had molested his daughter Lizzie and they made a big deal about how it was wrong to be saying something like that about a dead man who could not defend himself and blah,blah,blah..So then the tour guide said that ever since that night she was being hit and groped during her tours and she felt like it was Mr.Borden getting even with her for taken part in the séance that exposed his dark secret..The big ending was supposed to have happened on Halloween night during another séance that the resident psychic did not want to attend but felt like she had to because there was over 20 ppl wanting to witnesses it..Anyway she actually went as far as to say that while she was sitting in the chair Mr.Borden raped her she described it as cold hands all over her body and then a cold painful event down below..When they asked the owner of the house if she knew about this she said she had heard about it and was wondering why she had been seen running from the house that night and had stopped in the middle of the street crying and vividly upset by other employee's..She did not seem at all upset that they were making these accusations and even said she has been hit ,pinched and kicked at times herself while alone in the house..Here is the weird thing the psychic said it was Abby that was telling her about what Mr.Borden had been doing to Lizzie in order to expose how cruel he had been to Lizzie to try and help explain why Lizzie had murdered him so violently.. However they never explained why Lizzie had murdered Abby before her father you would think if she had spoken up for Lizzie in real life then Lizzie would not have given her those 40 whacks..I have heard ppl say that they think that molestation might have happened but according to this psychic Lizzie was also using sex to get her way and to obtain things from her father that she would not have if she hadn't played the sex card..I was really disgusted with the owner for letting them make such crazy accusations it seemed like all she wanted was the media attention in order to book more guests and ghost hunters..

[irina]

Hi Bronte! Welcome!

Actually Mrs. Borden was whacked 19 times, not 40, but as you know she was the most horribly attacked and the first one attacked.

I'm not sure what to say in reply to your ideas and questions. I have had some accurate psychic experiences; I am Catholic and I pray that I never receive anything God does not want me to see. That said I don't think much of seances. I believe some people have the ability to see the other side and they prove this through accurate and provable information. Even these gifted people are not always right so again my belief is that sometimes information is available and sometimes not and trying to force the activity leads to false impressions. It is easy to play mind tricks on one self. When I research Lizzie I can imagine her saying to me that she is innocent for that is what I believe, but I will tell you honestly I know anything I ever heard from Lizzie came from my imagination.

I don't know anything about "Ghost Adventures" but with the title and format you describe I would say it is for entertainment purposes. I have a relative in the entertainment industry (let me plug his new show~ "Scorpion", CBS Monday, excellent), and so I know that a lot of what is put forth as reality isn't real at all. It's all show business to make a profit.

Lizzie has become an industry. Her name is associated with things ranging from the profane to the collectible. That 92 Second Street is a B&B at all depends on morbid curiosity and marketing. Obviously I can't speak for the owner whom I do not know, but I'd guess TV shows filmed there are good marketing and they may pay something to the owner.

If I am right that "Ghost Adventures" is pure entertainment, their record for solving stuff is probably nonexistent. Check their record and see if they have ever done anything more than entertain. I have seen some of those ghost based shows that are cleverly done to build suspense and then accomplish absolutely nothing. The people participating tell the audience what they feel for example. If these ghost busters really contacted the dead it seems once in awhile they would solve a mystery. There are plenty to solve where the solution could be proven, except I don't know of any of these shows proving anything or solving anything.

debbiediablo has posted a number of interesting things about the possibility of abuse in the Borden household. We have a pretty good search engine and I think I would try search term "sexual abuse". (When I was new the search engine didn't work for me but it has worked flawlessly for me for a number of weeks.) There are others here who have knowledge of psychology and they will probably answer you too.

I hope I have at least partially answered your post. I look forward to your future posts and ideas. Once again, welcome!

[Curryong]

Welcome, Bronte. I can't add anything more to irina's excellent post other than to say that I am afraid many of these ghost hunting sort of TV shows are very much associated with entertaining people and giving them something to talk about. If they presented something quite dull and uninteresting the show would be off air very shortly. We don't know whether there was possible abuse in the Borden household and over a hundred and twenty years later we aren't likely to know unless a letter or something of that kind turns up. However, the answer is very unlikely to come through psychics on TV shows.

[debbiediablo]

I'll chime in here. Welcome, Bronte! I'm one of the few "more convinced" members of this forum regarding sexual inappropriateness in that house; but I don't plan to ever see anything but commercialism on tv.

My mother, her grandmother and my oldest daughter have a sensitivity to things; and my oldest daughter experienced a full blown apparition (if that's what it's called) in the basement of a home she worked in as a CNA in her undergrad years. She was doing laundry when the basement temperature suddenly dropped to very cold, very fast. She turned around to face the desk where the woman's long dead husband had worked. (This would've been about 1998. It still had the old green rotary phone, and this woman was wealthy.) The husband, looking kind of see-throughish, was staring at my daughter. She dropped all the clean clothes. He was young again, not the 60 year-old man who died 40 years before of lung cancer. (His wife lived to 103.)

They stared at each other for maybe two minutes. Then, he gradually faded away and the basement warmed up. My daughter went upstairs and started looking through his pictures, trying to see for sure. Her employer asked what she was doing. Upon hearing, her employer laughed and said, "Oh that's just Merle. He talks to me all the time. Don't be afraid. He's a good man." My daughter called me on her cell phone a few minutes later. Crying. On that day her scientific brain decided that not all things can be proved in a science lab.

Prior to this a multitude of employees had come, stayed a day or two and quit, often stuffing rugs against the bottom of the basement door and blocking the upstairs door shut with a chair under the door knob. So do I think haunting impossible? Absolutely not. Do I think it's on televsion? Highly unlikely....

[Bronte]

Thanks for all of your feedback I am not a ghost Adventure fan as I stated above I was just appalled that they took it to that level on T.V. for ratings..I knew that Abby had not received the 40 whacks however when I was typing this my mind went blank and I could not remember how many blows she received so I just used the 40 as an example..I to have had some experiences some that was residual and one that was demonic that I witnessed as a 9 yr. old girl..So I am a firm believer in the spirit world ..I also feel that you have to be very careful when you are dealing with this stuff.I understand that we will never really know what was going on in that house to cause such a rage unless like was said above that it should come out thru a long lost letter and until such a letter does come out of hiding we are all just speculating...

[irina]

Commercialism of everything will do nothing but increase now that we have 24/7 TV and absolutely anyone can have their very own newspaper online. My feeling about the Borden case is the popular rhyme invented many years ago is not nice and everybody remembers it. Ghost adventures will come and go and soon be forgotten.

Part of my interest in the case is that I believe she was innocent or mostly innocent. It would be lovely to find proof that would exonerate her for history because if she was truly innocent she paid a terrible price living her life under suspicion.

[Curryong]

The 'Lizzie' rhyme will probably be forgotten in future generations, irina, as Gen Y (and some of Gen X) apparently aren't teaching their children nursery rhymes any more. This will go double for 'folk rhymes' I guess!

[hyacinth]

Lizzie rerun 7pm central Saturday 10/4 .
Just my opinion but I don't believe Andrew molested Lizzie and the " psychics "are phonies and or self deluded people who think they're psychic. You can be offended by that if you like but I believe I have a right to not have the popular point of view .

[Curryong]

Hi Hyacinth. Of course you have the right to express your own opinion. We want all sorts of opinions on this forum! Join with us and post some more!

[irina]

Hi Hyacinth! We all say what we believe here. NONE of us have all the answers~otherwise there wouldn't be a mystery left to discuss. I keep working on getting folks to understand that Lizzie was innocent and she was just in the cellar instead of the barn when her father was killed. I agree with you, Hyacinth that I don't believe Andrew molested his girls. We all bring our own perspectives to the case. Some have brought in profiling, psychology and science. It all adds but doesn't necessarily solve anyhting.

I look forward to more of your posts.

[debbiediablo]

Due to the nature of the crimes and the crime scene and Lizzie's behavior in the following decades, I'm inclined to think Andrew did act sexually inappropriately with Lizzie which gave her more connectedness with and more power over her father than Emma had. That said, the only psychics I've seen on television regarding both the Borden house and the Villisca Axe murder house were highly unprofessional and not believable. I do believe in a spiritual realm that most of us have little or no understanding about, but I don't think these spirits/ghosts/apparitions/poltergeists/demons/energy fields perform at bidding for the camera.

[Curryong]

Perhaps that's why nothing was ever seen on an English ghost hunting series I used to watch. There were little golden orbs floating about in these old houses (dust?) and occasionally an unexpected noise, but that was it. No phantoms ever appeared. I would have loved to have seen one caught on camera, actually. Along with my love of mysteries of all kinds I do believe in a spirit realm. As debbie says, though, these spirits aren't circus animals to perform on cue.

Actually, on that show there was a psychic who was so dodgy that he did summon spirits on cue. The producer became so suspicious of him that he fed him false information about this haunted ex airforce base they were going to film at next. Lo and behold, the psychic re-told everything that he'd been fed, in his usual dramatic way, on the show. He was fired the next day.

[irina]

A lot of so-called psychics work that way, picking up cues. I think spirit worlds have to do with frequencies. I think death is a change of frequency. It has been suggested that Jesus of Nazareth healed because He had a higher frequency in His body than did others.

[mbhenty]

When you are a child your interpretation of life includes an innocent and optimistic belief in Santa and tooth fairies.

When older, those convictions may translate into scriptural or pious practices. I can understand that. I hold mystical beliefs of my own.

But the ghost and haunted house scam is one that I find absurd. Each to their own, I suppose. But most of these ghost-chasers are schemers. For a year, on and off, I sat in Maplecroft. In the dark. At night. In the living room, Lizzie's bedroom, the library, sat on the back stair case, the front staircase, in the dark, in the cellar, and....listened. Did this countless of times since I had access to the house and most of the year no one was living there. Heard nothing. felt nothing, nothing, and nothing. So did those who lived there years past. No ghost stories, no hauntings. Suddenly it is haunted. And the spirits make themselves heard. What a money making scheme, a hustle, entertainment, amusement park sustenance and money making opportunity.

It's an age old racket with plenty of prey and exploitable, wide eyed, consumers hungry for the unknown, and suggested to them by privileged TV prophets and entrepreneurs. Each to their own, I suppose.

Below is a link to such a program, coming to a station near you. The demons of the Borden House. I suppose I need some spirituality. Now where did you say that Church of Satan had its chapel.


https://www.hauntjaunts.net/borden-curs ... hahebfwVBo

[camgarsky4]

Extract from linked article......
"In 1848 Lawdwick and Eliza lived next door to what would become Andrew Borden’s home in 1872 —and his place of death in 1892. But in 1848 Eliza killed two of her three children before borrowing Lawdwick’s straight razor to cut her own throat. (Some believe it’s those children who haunt the Lizzie Borden house.)"


I believe the house the two children were killed in is still standing, so quite interesting the ghost children decided to migrate to their neighbors house to haunt for eternity!! :)

[MaryM]

That supernatural, ghost hunting stuff does look like a con to me. A friend was a neighbor of one of those guys, Jason from TAPS, the old Ghosthunter show and his kids told hers that it was all made up.