Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by KGDevil »

I have also long suspected that everything we know about Bridget Sullivan, other than what we hear from Bridget herself, is wrong. This is a reason why I try to use other known relatives to verify information. Such as using siblings as I explained before. It will either help verify or help to show the information is incorrect. I've found conclusive information that the information we have for John M. Sullivan is erroneous. If his information is incorrect then by association all of the information we have for Bridget's life in Montana is erroneous as well.


Montana, County Births and Deaths

Name John M. Sullivan
Event Type Death
Event Date March 12, 1939
Event Place Anaconda, Deer Lodge, Montana, United States
Gender Male
Father's Name Jim Sullivan
Mother's Name Margaret Leary
Spouse's Name Bridget


Montana County Marriages

Name John M. Sullivan
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Jun 21, 1905
Event Place Anaconda, Deer Lodge, Montana
Age 37
Race White
Birthplace Ireland
Birth Year (Estimated)1868
Father's Name Daniel Sullivan
Mother's Name Julia Sullivan
Spouse's Name Bridget Sullivan
Spouse's Age 35
Spouse's Race White
Spouse's Birthplace Ireland
Spouse's Birth Year(Estimated) 1870
Spouse's Father's Name Eugene Sullivan
Spouse's Mother's Name Margaret Leary
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Federal Census of 1900

John M. Sullivan. Anaconda, Deer Lodge, Montana. Boarder. Born in Ireland in June 1868. Living in the household of a man named John Keegan. Immigration year 1891.

In the 1910 Census

John M. Sullivan. Anaconda Ward 6, Deer Lodge, Montana. Head of Household. Wife Bridget Sullivan. Estimated birth year 1869. Born in Ireland. Immigration 1889.

In 1920 Census

John M. Sullivan. Anaconda Ward 6, Deer Lodge, Montana. Head of household. Wife Bridget Sullivan. Estimated Birth year 1868. Born in Ireland. Immigration 1888.

In the 1930 Census

John M. Sullivan. Anaconda, Deer Lodge, Montana. Head of Household. Wife Bridget Sullivan. Estimated birth year 1868. Born in Irish Free State. Immigration 1888.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I've actually been finding many of my recent search results on the free records site Familysearch.org, so I cancelled my ancestry membership. This site is very good. I went back and plugged in the information so I could also provide the links.

Marriage Records

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3Q9-75S

Death Record
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKNT-33GK
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote: The Anaconda Bridget is also described as "stern," "even mean" and "said to have no sense of humor." Most accounts of the Borden Bridget depict her as an amiable person with an excellent reputation.
That struck me too. The Borden Bridget certainly has a funny-bone, she's quite the card. She and Lizzie were even setting each other off in court, according to reporters. To whit, during that interminable food-autopsy.
irishlass78 wrote: Lastly, another relative, Naomi Farthing, posted on numerous genealogy boards seeking information on Bridget. I found the last paragraph of her post pretty telling...possible doubt as to Bridget's identity?

Much has been researched and written about the Borden murders and Bridget's connection; however, she apparently took any knowledge of the event to her grave. I hope to find an actual family connection or be able to discount her connection with the crime. Thank you. Naomi

I'd still like to see the rest of that photo inscription.
'Aunt B[.......] & [.....] who?
Yes it's the Bordens' Bridget but why can't we see who she's with?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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In the 1900 Census I mentioned earlier, the John M. Sulivan with the immigration year of 1891 instead if 1888/9, there is another boarder named James H. Sullivan. I'm going to guess they are brothers. I will also guess the death certificate listing the father as Jim (James) Sullivan belongs to this John M. Sullivan.

1900 Census

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM58-WZD
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I wonder if the Anaconda Bridget were our Bridget, and after the murders her demeanor changed? The horrific details of the murders of Abby and Andrew would, I think, have had a profound affect on anyone who lived with them day in and day out (well, except for Lizzie and Emma). I could see Bridget becoming a stern, serious, and even irritable or grumpy older woman. Events like what happened on August 4th and the following inquest and trial would be enough to cause serious stress. Maybe even anxiety, mood swings, etc.

The article mentions that Anaconda had a large single male population and that a woman could go there and find a husband rather easily. Maybe Bridget wanted to live in obscurity and get away from it all, so she met a man and married and didn't speak about the murders anymore. I could also understand if someone didn't want to relive such a traumatic day.

However, I'm convinced that Anaconda Bridget is the Borden Bridget, so I may be a bit biased.

Great illustrations! I had never came across those before! :smile:

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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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That struck me too. The Borden Bridget certainly has a funny-bone, she's quite the card. She and Lizzie were even setting each other off in court, according to reporters. To whit, during that interminable food-autopsy.
I hadn't read that. If the reporters were correct, then she wouldn't have been suffering from stress and psychological issues (like I had thought she could possibly have been) due to the murders.

Hmm. Now I'm perplexed.

Do you know in which paper the article appeared?

I also found it interesting that the family had thought that maybe Lizzie had paid Bridget's fare to go back to Ireland...
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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If the marriage record and death record prove that the John M. Sullivan's listed were not the same man, because they had different parents, it also proves that it was not the same Bridget Sullivan married to him. So, we have no way of knowing if any of that information applies to our Bridget. She may not have married at all.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:If the marriage record and death record prove that the John M. Sullivan's listed were not the same man, because they had different parents, it also proves that it was not the same Bridget Sullivan married to him. So, we have no way of knowing if any of that information applies to our Bridget. She may not have married at all.
KG, some of us agree, and think the whole idea is built on clay. Before the modern age journalists in provincial towns always did live a nightmare struggling to fill the morning paper.

As you cite above, in 1999 it seems as though Naomi Farthing Sullivan was stating this relation for a certainty.
But as Irish observes, the same post in full shows she wasn't at all sure when she began to establish a link through online genealogy sites:

I am searching for information about my husband's great aunt, Bridget Sullivan, who may have been maid for the Andrew Borden family... [...] I hope to find an actual family connection or be able to discount her connection with the crime. Thank you. Naomi


I've no head for genealogy, I've been trying hard, with the wonderful Family Search, yes, but it clearly takes experience.
So can I ask you, what happens if we come at this the other way?
By supposing that somewhere in Silver Bow or Butte, is the real Bridget's brother.
This Alder Sreet John M. Sullivan, does he have a sister called Bridget?
Can we get at his siblings?

Ideally we need a Silver Bow or Butte Sullivan who's the male sibling of that Kilcatherine Bridget born 1864 of Owen/Eugene Sullivan and Margaret Leary.
And to find if she comes through Immigration and when.
If Bridget Sullivan does end up with any nieces, they'd be nieces by blood and not necessarily via a husband.

I do apologise if your earlier post on siblings actually gives this information; I'm a bit confused by it to be honest.

But I feel it may be much more helpful to search for Bridget's brother rather than her husband.
I feel the Anaconda story has been corrupted, by a mix of journalism and wishful thinking.

About that photograph, is Lee Ann Wilbur the keeper of the copy at the B B&B?
Does anyone here know her, or should I just crash ahead and write to her about what can be seen of the full inscription?

The information we seek should be in that inscription, and it's either been cut off or it hasn't.
If it's not on that blow-up print then what did they see on the original?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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oops. double-posted.
Last edited by InterestedReader on Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I've just asked a friend who's Irish - Ireland-born and brought up, most of her family still there, and she knows Irish social history. What she tells me I find fascinating. Only at the end did I tell her why I was asking, but as is often the way here in the UK, she's barely heard of the Borden murders let alone the names of anyone involved.

She says right up to the 1950s and 60s the Irish still took the most careless attitude to their birth-year because it was so damned difficult for anyone to prove. Even in Ireland. In Ireland not til the 1950s did anyone begin asking for, or expect to see, such a thing as a birth-certificate. If you wanted to prove your birth-year for officialdom, the Church baptismal entries were used. No, "no-one bothered" to consult the Census. "And remember," she says, "in Ireland you are baptised according to the day you were born. Your baptismal record gives your birth-day." That's the principle. But in practice, she says, historians have big problems with the Church's baptismal records. They're often very approximate, very incomplete.

I take her to the 1880s. Emigration. "Still the Famines," she says, "It was still hunger driving them over there, to the States." But how was it done, when they arrived? How did they establish their age? She says the whole process was "notoriously lax". The sheer numbers of Irish and Italians alone made it chaotic. You'd be asked your age, it would be noted down. But didn't they need to produce paperwork? A copy of their baptismal record? She very much doubts that many had one. She says that throughout that era it was your year of Immigration which everyone went by, which stamped you, which couldn't so easily be exchanged. For the Irish settlers their birth-year, on the other hand, was negotiable. It could be a matter of fantasy, it often was, and often exploited for being so. No-one gave it much credence because there was no good way of proving it. Your age at Immigration determined your subsequent age, to all practical intent and purpose.

(I'm reminded here of Bridget's slightly wobbly equivocation when asked her birthday).

I tell her of the search for this woman among the records and our doubt that History has got the right one. She smiles, very Irish. I tell her the name, Bridget Sullivan. "Oh like a needle in a haystack then!” Well, yes. "Sullivan," she scoffs. "That came with an O' of course, originally, though they'd all be dropping it by then. But it was very common to slip your O' back in just to confuse, to throw people off the chase. Are you trying it with the O'?"

She's pretty sure that in the 1880s, and in practice, the Irish entering the United States were required only to give verbal assurance of their age, but she's going to check with an historian who focuses on the mass exodus.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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What information do we actually have to support that our Bridget Sullivan was ever in Montana? Even her mother's name Margaret Leary Sullivan isn't that uncommon. For example, a woman by that name died in Fall River in 1869. John M. Sullivan isn't that uncommon. None of her sibling's names are that uncommon. It's much easier to trace them living in Ireland together as a family unit, than it is to trace them scattered across the United States. They all become needles in haystacks. There are people with those names and those birth years all over the United States.

At first I did not agree that the maid living with Judge Winston was not our Bridget. But I am starting to agree it wasn't. The only Bridget we have on record, via the 1910 census, as being in that household is far too young at 28 years. We have information of John M. Sullivan and Bridget Sullivan marrying and their attendant is a Bridget Sullivan who works for Judge Winston. She can't be the attendant at her own wedding. The man on the marriage license does not have the same parents listed as the John M. Sullivan on the death record. Do we even know if she married then? How do we know if the will is for our Bridget? She mentions no immediate relatives to be able to verify it. Only nieces and nephews with no family connection mentioned except they are nieces and nephews. Every fact about the Montana Bridget can logically be picked apart. My question is what proof do we have that we should be looking in Montana instead of say, South Bethlehem, Pennsylvania where she admits she had relatives?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:If the marriage record and death record prove that the John M. Sullivan's listed were not the same man, because they had different parents, it also proves that it was not the same Bridget Sullivan married to him. So, we have no way of knowing if any of that information applies to our Bridget. She may not have married at all.
OK, my two penn'th:

John M. Sullivan 1 dying in March 1939 - his parents 'Jim' Sullivan & Margaret Leary - is 50, so born in 1888 or 1889.

The John M. Sullivan 2 who marries in 1905, is 37 at time of marriage, not 16 or 17 as the first one would be. He's born 1868, give or take. And his parents are Daniel and Julia Sullivan.

Different blokes.
Both marry a Bridget.

John M. Sullivan 2, his Bridget is born of Eugene Sullivan and Margaret Leary. She's 35, born in 1870.

So, Bridget can't marry Mr 1 in 1905, coz he's barely legal, this 'Anaconda John' of Alder Street.

Whereas Mr 2 would be more her own generation, and Bridget and John get different parents.
Mr 2 is in Anaconda, but he's certainly the wrong age to be Mr Anaconda John 1 who dies in 1939.

Lor', where does this leave us? IrishLass?
It does my head in the more I look at it.

These two might be sister and brother, yes, KG?

Bridget Sullivan. Born March 28, 1864 at 76, Kilcatherine, Cork, Ireland. Father Owen Sullivan. Mother Margaret Leary.

John Sullivan. Born April 6, 1872 in Kilcatherine, Cork, Ireland. Father Eugene Sullivan. Mother Margaret Leary.

But we have another 1864 born Bridget Sullivan, of Eugene Sullivan and Margaret Leary, happening in Billerough.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:What information do we actually have to support that our Bridget Sullivan was ever in Montana?
A photo of her on a visit.
:grin:

Seriously though, a family come up with two photos. One of Bridget in visiting-dress, and one of her in everyday home wear - a snap which might have been sent through the post from wherever Bridget actually was. So perhaps Dianna Porter's great-great-uncle was Bridget's brother in Montana.
Both photos the family described hopefully as 'Bridget by her gate', so as to say, in the one same place. Well, there's fencework in both, but it looks like different fencing.
KGDevil wrote:The man on the marriage license does not have the same parents listed as the John M. Sullivan on the death record.
Are these two records both used in the Montana Bridget story?
KGDevil wrote:Do we even know if she married then? How do we know if the will is for our Bridget? She mentions no immediate relatives to be able to verify it. Only nieces and nephews with no family connection mentioned except they are nieces and nephews.
The story has her going to live with her neice Mary. Isn't Mary in that will?
Irish is best on this. My brain's now atrophied by Bridgets.

I just read through the Sourcebook over Christmas - the compendium of case journalism, an assemblage really of America's best journalistic talent of that age - and I should have been taking Bridget-notes. Because everywhere there's a Bridget who's not going to end up in Anaconda on the look-out for some marriageable trousers - there's so many quotes of her speaking, and so many snippets and references to other people in her life, and other places, she had family in Fall River, and connections - which all suggested she did something else entirely. If she never once mentioned Montana, I'm not surprised. I think that probably, she's somewhere else. And it would be super-cool if we could discover what the rest of her life really was.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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InterestedReader wrote: Are these two records both used in the Montana Bridget story?
According to Mr. Len Rebello in his book.

It is believed Bridget Sullivan was in Anaconda, Montana, by 1897. She was found to be residing in Anaconda as a domestic. A marriage certificate, dated June 21, 1905, at St. Paul's Church by Father J.M. O'Brien. Attendants for the newlyweds were Peter J. Sullivan and another woman named Bridget Sullivan who was a domestic for Judge George B. Winston. Mr. John Sullivan was born in Ireland (1868 as engraved on his headstone and the 1920 Federal Census listed his age as 52) and was the son of James and Margaret (Leary) Sullivan. He came to the United States in 1888 and became a citizen in 1896. (1920 Federal Census) He was listed in the Anaconda City Directory in 1896. John Sullivan was a laborer, puncher and converter, furnace man, smelterman and later a helper for the Anaconda Copper Mining Company.
After their marriage, Bridget continued to work as a domestic. The Sullivans resided at various locations while in Anaconda. They purchased a home on Alder Street in 1915. Mr. Sullivan died at St. Ann's Hospital, March 12, 1939. He had been a resident of Anaconda for fifty years. He was buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Anaconda.

In 1942, Bridget moved to Butte, Montana, to live with relatives at 112 East Woolman Street. She died at a local hospital in Butte on March 25, 1948, at the age of 73. Cause of death was cardiac failure, ateriosclerosis, and senility. Bridget, for reasons unknown, was blind at the time of her death. She is buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Anaconda, Montana.
InterestedReader wrote:The story has her going to live with her neice Mary. Isn't Mary in that will? Irish is best on this. My brain's now atrophied by Bridgets.
In the will there are nieces and nephews listed as beneficiaries. The will states that this Bridget intentionally omitted some relatives. Mr. Rebello states that Bridget's will is a four page document but the only part of the will listed in the book are the beneficiaries. It would be helpful to see the full four pages of the document, as it was helpful to see the actual marriage and death records.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:
InterestedReader wrote: Are these two records both used in the Montana Bridget story?
According to Mr. Len Rebello in his book.

It is believed Bridget Sullivan was in Anaconda, Montana, by 1897. She was found to be residing in Anaconda as a domestic. A marriage certificate, dated June 21, 1905, at St. Paul's Church by Father J.M. O'Brien. Attendants for the newlyweds were Peter J. Sullivan and another woman named Bridget Sullivan who was a domestic for Judge George B. Winston. Mr. John Sullivan was born in Ireland (1868 as engraved on his headstone and the 1920 Federal Census listed his age as 52) and was the son of James and Margaret (Leary) Sullivan. He came to the United States in 1888 and became a citizen in 1896. (1920 Federal Census) He was listed in the Anaconda City Directory in 1896. John Sullivan was a laborer, puncher and converter, furnace man, smelterman and later a helper for the Anaconda Copper Mining Company.
After their marriage, Bridget continued to work as a domestic. The Sullivans resided at various locations while in Anaconda. They purchased a home on Alder Street in 1915. Mr. Sullivan died at St. Ann's Hospital, March 12, 1939. He had been a resident of Anaconda for fifty years. He was buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Anaconda.

Oh my goodness. I see it now. One John Sullivan morphs into the other, just for the 1905 marriage.

It's not the right marriage.

So unless another marriage-record is found, this man isn't the Borden Bridget's husband.

The mistake is easy to miss in the Rebello passage, because he's omitting the groom's parents' names and the groom's age all as on the document.
Myself I'd been coming at the problem from a different angle, in that Bridget seemed to be sharing her husband's parentage. I'd assumed that entire Rebello passage to be detailing the one man!

Well done. One has to look at the records for oneself, isn't it always true?
I've been using Family Search on other people in the case, & finding very interesting results.
KGDevil wrote:In 1942, Bridget moved to Butte, Montana, to live with relatives at 112 East Woolman Street. She died at a local hospital in Butte on March 25, 1948, at the age of 73. Cause of death was cardiac failure, ateriosclerosis, and senility. Bridget, for reasons unknown, was blind at the time of her death. She is buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Anaconda, Montana.
And this woman is the other, the wrong John's wife. Surely.
KGDevil wrote:
InterestedReader wrote:The story has her going to live with her neice Mary. Isn't Mary in that will? Irish is best on this. My brain's now atrophied by Bridgets.
In the will there are nieces and nephews listed as beneficiaries. The will states that this Bridget intentionally omitted some relatives. Mr. Rebello states that Bridget's will is a four page document but the only part of the will listed in the book are the beneficiaries. It would be helpful to see the full four pages of the document, as it was helpful to see the actual marriage and death records.
Is not the full document on old Forum threads here somewhere? I think I have read the full will here.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:
It is believed Bridget Sullivan was in Anaconda, Montana, by 1897. She was found to be residing in Anaconda as a domestic. A marriage certificate, dated June 21, 1905, at St. Paul's Church by Father J.M. O'Brien. Attendants for the newlyweds were Peter J. Sullivan and another woman named Bridget Sullivan who was a domestic for Judge George B. Winston. Mr. John Sullivan was born in Ireland (1868 as engraved on his headstone and the 1920 Federal Census listed his age as 52) and was the son of James and Margaret (Leary) Sullivan. He came to the United States in 1888 and became a citizen in 1896. (1920 Federal Census) He was listed in the Anaconda City Directory in 1896. John Sullivan was a laborer, puncher and converter, furnace man, smelterman and later a helper for the Anaconda Copper Mining Company.
After their marriage, Bridget continued to work as a domestic. The Sullivans resided at various locations while in Anaconda. They purchased a home on Alder Street in 1915. Mr. Sullivan died at St. Ann's Hospital, March 12, 1939. He had been a resident of Anaconda for fifty years. He was buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Anaconda.


Actually, this must be all over the shop because the March 12th 1939 death certificate says John M. Sullivan of 701 Alder Street dies aged 50.

image.jpg
He'd still be in nappies at the time of the murder.

KGDevil wrote:In 1942, Bridget moved to Butte, Montana, to live with relatives at 112 East Woolman Street. She died at a local hospital in Butte on March 25, 1948, at the age of 73. Cause of death was cardiac failure, ateriosclerosis, and senility. Bridget, for reasons unknown, was blind at the time of her death. She is buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Anaconda, Montana.
Back to the John (son of Daniel and Julia) and Bridget (daughter of Eugene and Mary Leary Sullivan) who do marry in 1905, well that Bridget would be 77 or perhaps 78, in March 1948.
image.jpg
So I just don't know what it all amounts to.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Reading the records in their entirety for yourself is very helpful. The death record information provided for the Bridget Sullivan who died on March 25, 1948 gives more information that doesn't seem to fit. Mr. Rebello states that she moved to Butte, Montana in 1942 to stay with relatives. But according to the information provided on the certificate this Bridget had been a member of the community for 22 years at the time of her death in 1948.
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KG, Here's the Will

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It's not a good copy, someone with delirium tremens held the camera - and there's a 'partly-burnt' version too, if you want that.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:Reading the records in their entirety for yourself is very helpful. The death record information provided for the Bridget Sullivan who died on March 25, 1948 gives more information that doesn't seem to fit. Mr. Rebello states that she moved to Butte, Montana in 1942 to stay with relatives. But according to the information provided on the certificate this Bridget had been a member of the community for 22 years at the time of her death in 1948.
And its 1875 birth-date, if correct, is impossibly late.

So now we look in the Butte 1940 Census.

There should be a Bridget Sullivan there widowed by one year.
If the above Bridget is the wrong Bridget belonging to the wrong marriage.
Um. Yes?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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There should be a widowed Bridget Sullivan in the 1940 federal census. I've been searching for her also. The 1875 birth date is extremely late.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:There should be a widowed Bridget Sullivan in the 1940 federal census. I've been searching for her also. The 1875 birth date is extremely late.

Is this her?
The house-number is 701. (As in 701 Alder Steeet.) She's widowed. Birth-year 1875.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB3B-PTR

I can't read the script very well for all the columns.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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And here is the same Bridget in 1930. Her husband John M Sullivan is then alive, and guess what.

Her date of Immigration is 1892.

Rebello's Bridget Sullivan is not the Bordens' Bridget Sullivan.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCMK-W26

I've also found their marriage in full, plus the Certificate of Marriage, the lower portion which is usually cut off. (I believe it's removed in Rebello?)
The witness isn't 'Bridget Sullivan' but 'Bridgie Sullivan'.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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You beat me to it interestedreader. I had just found this same record and logged in to share it. Nice job on locating it so quickly. This seems to be the Bridget Sullivan who could belong to the man with the 1939 death record. It indicates that she had occupied this house for the 1930 census also. Which shows she lived at that address for at least ten years. There is the 1875 birth year. 701 is the address, and it's Ward 6 of Anaconda. I think that is her. Too young to be our Borden's Bridget Sullivan. Too young to be the Bridget Sullivan on the 1905 marriage license.

You've put the information together nicely from there.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I don't know what happened I hit submit and everything went crazy. Sorry for any duplicate posts.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Also just looked at the 1930 census and marriage license. Very compelling.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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And here they are in 1920. Same address:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M832-KTP

This year she decides her Immigration was 1889.

And here they are - I think - in 1910. Different address:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLCQ-L6R

And this year her Immigration was 1890.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Sorry, KG, I kept mis-reading John M Sullivan's Death certificate. He didn't die at the age of 50; 50 years was his length of residence in the city!
KGDevil wrote: This seems to be the Bridget Sullivan who could belong to the man with the 1939 death record. It indicates that she had occupied this house for the 1930 census also. Which shows she lived at that address for at least ten years. There is the 1875 birth year. 701 is the address, and it's Ward 6 of Anaconda. I think that is her. Too young to be our Borden's Bridget Sullivan. Too young to be the Bridget Sullivan on the 1905 marriage license.
I really have trouble with maths but -

In 1930, in the Age at First Marriage column, it's a bang on match.
37 for him and 35 for her.
The ages on the 1905 marriage.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Another small thing. Aside from the female attendants name being Bridgie and not Bridget, the male attendants name appears to be Pat J. Sullivan and not Peter J. Sullivan. Probably short for Patrick. Somehow these two couples got woven into one. These birth dates are consistently too young to be her.

But taken all together, I agree this information proves this was not the Borden's maid Bridget.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Sorry, KG and Irish - Just thinking aloud here. For clarification. Please tell me if I'm failing to see something obvious.

...So the chief mismatch between the 1905 marriage and 1939 death records is, his parentage.
He has Daniel and Julia Sullivan neé Sullivan on the Marriage and
Jim and Margaret Sullivan neé Leary on the Death.

His wife is Informant for the Death certificate.
Is there a case to be made that she was upset & thought she was being asked for her own parents' names? That would explain one, but 'Jim' is no more like Eugene / John than it is Daniel.

On the whole, across all 3 records combined with the Census data, and apart from what could be a mistake on that Death certificate, doesn't it look like the one same couple? He's alive on the 1930 Census; she's widowed on the 1940 Census. The address is consistent from 1920 on to his death. Their ages at time of marriage as entered on the Census, match those on the Marriage certificate. It's consistently Anaconda in the County of Deer Lodge.

Meanwhile her parentage is a match on both this 1905 Marriage Certificate and the 'Bridget Sullivan' Death record. (That said, we already know of two Bridget Sullivans born in Co. Cork in 1864, one in Kikcatherine, one in Billerough, with duplicate Eugene and Margaret neé Leary parentage.)

Her Immigration years all seem too late for the Borden Bridget, as do her 1870 birthdate.

When it comes to the 'Bridget Sullivan will' of 1942, we're still in Anaconda. This will makes her birth-year 'about' 1870. With the 'Bridget Sullivan Death certificate' in 1948, we're in Butte, Silver Bow. Her birth-year becomes 1875, although the 1905 Marriage certificate has her born in 1870.

The Anaconda couple we've looked at through the successive Census years were clearly childless. The Bridget of the will names one nephew, Dennis Sullivan. And two neices - Mary Sullivan and Kate Moriarty (or Moriarity, as it's typed). Kate Moriarty has three children, John, Eddie and Mary. They were all living in Butte. It shouldn't be too difficult to find the nephew and neices in the Census, then we can get a hold on some siblings for this couple, place them in a wider context. They may lead to the real Bridget; they may have nothing to do with her.

But it's a Butte family which has produced photos of the Borden Bridget, so she was related to someone in the vast horde of Sullivans around Silver Bow. Seriously, you type 'Sullivan' into 'Montana' for 1900 and the results are never-ending, all Butte and Silver Bow.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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50 years of residence in the city for John at the time of his death. According to the death certificate presented for Bridget she had been a resident of the community for only 22 years. She supposedly moved to Butte in 1942 and died in 1948. The informant on the record is also the hospital records department. Where are these relatives she was living with? That is often the case when the hospital has care of someone and there is no family or friend to directly provide information.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:50 years of residence in the city for John at the time of his death. According to the death certificate presented for Bridget she had been a resident of the community for only 22 years. She supposedly moved to Butte in 1942 and died in 1948. The informant on the record is also the hospital records department. Where are these relatives she was living with? That is often the case when the hospital has care of someone and there is no family or friend to directly provide information.
Yes, I was just thinking the same. There's no real Informant, just 'Country Hospital Records'. As well as 'blind' this woman seems very alone.

Could it be this Death certificate which doesn't belong with that couple?
The 22 years' Butte residence doesn't fit them...

She was supposed to be living with a neice, Mary - Is there any way you can see who else lived at 112 East Woolman Street, Butte?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:The death record information provided for the Bridget Sullivan who died on March 25, 1948 gives more information that doesn't seem to fit. Mr. Rebello states that she moved to Butte, Montana in 1942 to stay with relatives. But according to the information provided on the certificate this Bridget had been a member of the community for 22 years at the time of her death in 1948.

On that death-certificate what do you make of the doctor's period of attendance? The single correction on the record? What do you see under the inked-on year?

Yes, even if the woman were rushed to hospital suddenly, where's any evidence for family? These 'relatives'?

The '22 years' Butte residency is troubling, and an utter mismatch with the rest of this Bridget's profile. As to a shift to Butte in 1942, it may have no more underpinning than 1942 is the date on the will.

There's elegant use of the passive mode here:
It is believed Bridget Sullivan was in Anaconda, Montana, by 1897. She was found to be residing in Anaconda as a domestic.

'Found' by whom? Did people go looking?
Or found on a Census, by modern scrutiny.

This Alder Street Bridget Sullivan is without Occupation across all four Census decades, incidentally. She doesn't work as a domestic any time after her 1905 marriage.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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What I can make out is that this doctor attended to this Mrs. Sullivan from June 1945 until the time of her death. I am unable to make out the inked over portion beneath. What do you make of it?

It's interesting that this Bridget Sullivan does not show employment. Mr. Rebello states that she continued to work after her marriage. The information on the census record cancels that out.

Where does the information come from that she was working as a domestic in Montana by 1897? That definitely requires some further digging.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Hi KG:

I'm in complete agreement with much of your argument re: Anaconda Bridget. We're both addressing the same questions. Earlier I had posted:
There is no Bridget Sullivan in the Winston household in 1900. (granted, she may not have been a live-in servant). However, there is a Bridget Sullivan living in the household in 1910 as a servant, but this Bridget is 28 years old, single, and gives an immigration date of 1905. The dates don't wash...based on what we know, this can't be the Borden Bridget. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLCQ-V1S

Our Bridget...the one believed to be the Borden maid...is living with her husband, John M. Sullivan, in 1910. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLCQ-L6R

These are two different households in the same census year and two different Bridgets altogether.

Morris also writes “Bridget married John M. Sullivan in Anaconda in 1905”.
According to Rebello, the Winston Bridget was the attendant, NOT the bride. (“Attendants for the newlyweds were Peter J. Sullivan and another woman named Bridget Sullivan who was a domestic for Judge George B. Winston”). (Note...it's actually "Pat J. Sullivan, NOT Peter J. Sullivan, and the witness is "Bridgie," not "Bridget.").

I agree that Rebello is in error regarding the parents of John M. Sullivan on the marriage certificate. He also claims “After their marriage, Bridget continued to work as a domestic.” However, the Bridget married to John M. Sullivan ceased working after marriage. According to the 1910, 1920, and 1930 census returns, Bridget's occupation is repeatedly given as “None.”
George Quigley wrote an article for the LBQ addressing the exact same discrepancies you, Wendy and I have been researching. It's well worth a look to see his take on the Bridget identity mystery:

https://archive.org/stream/lizzieborden ... 1/mode/1up

https://archive.org/stream/lizzieborden ... 8/mode/2up
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I posted this back in November. Notice that it refers to "Bridgie" Sullivan, the same as the witness on the 1905 marriage certificate.

From the Montana Butte Standard, July 15, 1939, pg. 5
Mrs. Lil Dennehy and son, John, of Fall River, Mass., who have been house guests of their uncle Eugene Sullivan, 709 North Main street, left today.. They plan to visit Alaska, San Francisco fair and return home via a southern route. Accompanying them from Butte was Miss Josephine Mclntyre, daughter of Thomas Mclntyre of 207 Princeton avenue. She will spend a year In the East attending school. While here the Dennehys visited an uncle and aunt. Mr. and Mrs. Jerry Sullivan, 1900 Yale avenue, and an aunt, Mrs. Bridgie Sulivan, 701 Alder street, Anaconda.


I believe all the people mentioned are related to John M. Sullivan, not Bridget. Jerry Sullivan was John's brother, and his sister, Johanna, was married to Eugene Sullivan. This visit occurred after John's death in March, 1939.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KG, you'll have read the entire will now. There's a codicil which is biting by anyone's standards, She disinherits members of her family. Who, we don't know; they're not named. But it spells family rupture. She draws up this extant will in 1942. Perhaps it's this which is used to date a 'shift' from Anaconda to Butte.

As to the named beneficiaries I've found two interesting families one of which might establish who this couple's siblings actually were. I'm working on this.
KGDevil wrote:What I can make out is that this doctor attended to this Mrs. Sullivan from June 1945 until the time of her death. I am unable to make out the inked over portion beneath. What do you make of it?
1946 typed beneath, and altered by hand to 1945 or 1943...? Hard to tell, but doesn't seem to be a family doctor signing it off.

A frightening number of Bridget Sullivans lived in this area of Montana and I'm unsure why this particular death-certificate should be Anaconda Bridget's.

Do you know how to find 112 East Woolman St in a Census? because I haven't a clue how to look, by property.

I was trying to find one brother, think I found his early death, clicked on the link & instead one death-certificate is a long ledger of deaths, thousands, & you can tell there are thousands because they're given no more than their name, date of death, and death tally-number. It's shocking, and seems to be how many Irish are being killed by that mining industry.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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hi Wendy:

I posted this back in November under "Bridget's Will" regarding the beneficiaries: (Note: The Irish census can be found at the National Archives of Ireland website).
by irishlass78 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:38 pm

In the Lizzie Borden Quarterly, Vol. 3, #2, April 1996, genealogist Richard O'Dwyer identified Bridget's 11 siblings and their spouses. According to O'Dwyer, Bridget's brother, Eugene Sullivan, married Margaret O'Sullivan, daughter of Daniel O'Sullivan & Ellen O'Sullivan.

In the 1901 Irish census for Billeragh, Cork, Eugene, age 45, is a widower living with his in-laws, Daniel and Ellen Sullivan, and four children: Mary, age 16; Catherine, age 14; Patrick, age 14; and Margaret, age 11. In the 1911 census, neither Catherine or Margaret are in the household.

In Bridget's will, she makes a bequest to three nieces:

1. Kate Moriarity. Kate Sullivan, age 22, born in Castletown, Cork, married John Moriarity in Butte in 1911. She died in 1960 in Silver Bow, Butte. Birth date: Aug. 9, 1886. Occupation: Domestic. Parents: Eugene Sullivan & Margaret Sullivan. Informant(s): John & Ed Moriarity. According to the 1930 U.S. census, she immigrated in 1905.

2. Mary Sullivan. This is the niece who resided with Bridget at the time of her death. Mary Sullivan died in April 1951 at Silver Bow, Butte, residence 112 E. Woolman St. Her father was Jerry Sullivan, no mother's name given, husband: Timothy. She was probably Bridget's niece via marriage.

3. Margaret “Margery” Sullivan, b. Aug. 7, 1889, Cork, Ireland married 1) George McNally, date unknown, by whom she had two children: George Anthony McNally, b. Silver Bow, Montana in 1907, and Margaret McNally, b. 1908, Silver Bow, Montana.
She then married 2) Kenneth McLeod on Sept. 15, 1925 at Silver Bow, Butte Montana. She died in 1966 in Silver Bow, Butte. Occupation: Maid. Parents: Eugene Sullivan & Margaret Sullivan. Informant: George McNally. According to the 1930 census, she immigrated in 1907.

So Kate Moriarity and Margaret McLeod could very possibly be the daughters of Bridget's brother, Eugene.

She also referenced a nephew, Denis Sullivan, in her will. I haven't been able to identify him, but a Denis Sullivan did reside at 109 E. Woolman St. (Bridget resided at 112 E. Woolman St.).

I cross-referenced Sullivan families living in Billeragh, Cork in the 1911 Irish census according to O'Dwyer's findings. It appears that most of Bridget's siblings and their children still resided in Billeragh and Kilmichael parishes at that time.
There's also a Julia O'Donnell mentioned as a beneficiary. I believe this is John M.'s niece, daughter of his brother, Jeremiah Sullivan. Here's her death certificate:
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:Hi KG:

I'm in complete agreement with much of your argument re: Anaconda Bridget. We're both addressing the same questions. Earlier I had posted:
There is no Bridget Sullivan in the Winston household in 1900. (granted, she may not have been a live-in servant). However, there is a Bridget Sullivan living in the household in 1910 as a servant, but this Bridget is 28 years old, single, and gives an immigration date of 1905. The dates don't wash...based on what we know, this can't be the Borden Bridget. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLCQ-V1S

Our Bridget...the one believed to be the Borden maid...is living with her husband, John M. Sullivan, in 1910. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLCQ-L6R

These are two different households in the same census year and two different Bridgets altogether.

Morris also writes “Bridget married John M. Sullivan in Anaconda in 1905”.
According to Rebello, the Winston Bridget was the attendant, NOT the bride. (“Attendants for the newlyweds were Peter J. Sullivan and another woman named Bridget Sullivan who was a domestic for Judge George B. Winston”). (Note...it's actually "Pat J. Sullivan, NOT Peter J. Sullivan, and the witness is "Bridgie," not "Bridget.").

I agree that Rebello is in error regarding the parents of John M. Sullivan on the marriage certificate. He also claims “After their marriage, Bridget continued to work as a domestic.” However, the Bridget married to John M. Sullivan ceased working after marriage. According to the 1910, 1920, and 1930 census returns, Bridget's occupation is repeatedly given as “None.”
George Quigley wrote an article for the LBQ addressing the exact same discrepancies you, Wendy and I have been researching. It's well worth a look to see his take on the Bridget identity mystery:

https://archive.org/stream/lizzieborden ... 1/mode/1up

https://archive.org/stream/lizzieborden ... 8/mode/2up

Irish, I'm so sorry, I overlooked all the valuable research you posted.

If anyone finds Bridget, I'm totally sure it will be you, you've gone so far into the problem, and you really think outside the box.

I've only begun looking at her. My head is spinning with teeming Irish. Teeming Bridgets. I'm seriously doubting my sanity for looking through so many 'em... and I forget what I have read here.

That Quigley promises to be back with the 'whole story' - but he never came back :lol:
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:I posted this back in November. Notice that it refers to "Bridgie" Sullivan, the same as the witness on the 1905 marriage certificate.

From the Montana Butte Standard, July 15, 1939, pg. 5
Mrs. Lil Dennehy and son, John, of Fall River, Mass., who have been house guests of their uncle Eugene Sullivan, 709 North Main street, left today.. They plan to visit Alaska, San Francisco fair and return home via a southern route. Accompanying them from Butte was Miss Josephine Mclntyre, daughter of Thomas Mclntyre of 207 Princeton avenue. She will spend a year In the East attending school. While here the Dennehys visited an uncle and aunt. Mr. and Mrs. Jerry Sullivan, 1900 Yale avenue, and an aunt, Mrs. Bridgie Sulivan, 701 Alder street, Anaconda.


I believe all the people mentioned are related to John M. Sullivan, not Bridget. Jerry Sullivan was John's brother, and his sister, Johanna, was married to Eugene Sullivan. This visit occurred after John's death in March, 1939.

So... Alder Street Bridget was Bridgie the Witness, not Bridget the Bride...!?

I can't apologise enough. You've already established all of this.
Hugest apologies.

I will re-read everything you posted and ponder.

(Even though i'm utterly sick of so many Sullivans all with the same names.)

...My goodness, it didn't take much to make the Montana Butte Standard...
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Irish, is this the right Billeragh?

Just look at it, there's sod all there.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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hi Wendy!

You posted:
Do you know how to find 112 East Woolman St in a Census? because I haven't a clue how to look, by property."11
I did a search for 112 East Woolman St. through newspaper archives and discovered another Bridget Sullivan lived there from about 1910 until her death in 1925. This was a Bridget Holland who married Cornelius Sullivan, so it's not the Borden Bridget. Still, what a small world! And just goes to prove how difficult it can be to pinpoint our Bridget in Butte/Anaconda among the numerous Sullivan families that lived there.

I couldn't find anything in the newspapers related to our Bridget at that address, however.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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So... Alder Street Bridget was Bridgie the Witness, not Bridget the Bride...!?

I can't apologise enough. You've already established all of this.
Hugest apologies.

I will re-read everything you posted and ponder.

(Even though i'm utterly sick of so many Sullivans all with the same names.)

LOL..my eyes are starting to spin counterclockwise from sorting through all the Sullivans.

...My goodness, it didn't take much to make the Montana Butte Standard...
I found it interesting that in his article, George Quigley made mention of the fact that the person he believed was the Borden Bridget was also nicknamed "Bridgie." I wonder if the witness was, in fact, the Borden Bridget and not the bride.

No apologies!! There is so much detail and information on these forums. I overlook so much myself or simply forget what I've read.

LOL..my eyes are starting to spin counterclockwise from sorting through all the Sullivans.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I'm currently unable to look at the LBQ articles. But I'm still wondering where the source came from that put our Bridget in Montana to be any of these Bridgets Sullivans.That would be the first bit of information I would like to find. And also who the man was with the 1939 death record, and the parents Jim Sullivan and Margaret Leary instead of Daniel and Julia. None of these names and combinations of relationships shows me the reason behind why anyone thinks our Bridget was in Montana. Do we have a source for this?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:29 pm

Irish, is this the right Billeragh?

Just look at it, there's sod all there.
I think so, Wendy. Is that the Beara Pennisula?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:hi Wendy!

You posted:
Do you know how to find 112 East Woolman St in a Census? because I haven't a clue how to look, by property."11
I did a search for 112 East Woolman St. through newspaper archives and discovered another Bridget Sullivan lived there from about 1910 until her death in 1925. This was a Bridget Holland who married Cornelius Sullivan, so it's not the Borden Bridget. Still, what a small world! And just goes to prove how difficult it can be to pinpoint our Bridget in Butte/Anaconda among the numerous Sullivan families that lived there.

I couldn't find anything in the newspapers related to our Bridget at that address, however.
I was looking at a lad who might have an interesting connection to Bridget, clicked open the Census record & he's a 'Census Enumerator.' I thought, "It's all fixed. She was there erasing herself."
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:49 pm

I'm currently unable to look at the LBQ articles. But I'm still wondering where the source came from that put our Bridget in Montana to be any of these Bridgets Sullivans.That would be the first bit of information I would like to find. And also who the man was with the 1939 death record, and the parents Jim Sullivan and Margaret Leary instead of Daniel and Julia. None of these names and combinations of relationships shows me the reason behind why anyone thinks our Bridget was in Montana. Do we have a source for this?
Hi KG:

I think the source placing Bridget in Montana came from Edward Radin, and he got his information from documents from Andrew Jennings, the attorney. I'm not too sure about this; I just remember reading it somewhere. I was hoping someone on the board could clarify the source for us.

As far as John M. Sullivans parents listed on the death certificate....I'll play devil's advocate here. Bridget's parents were Eugene Sullivan and Margaret Leary, we know. I'm wondering if Bridget attributed her own parents to John. If you remember from her death certificate, she was suffering from senility. Maybe she became confused. "Eugene" and "Jim" don't appear to be similar, but I did see a Eugene listed as "Jim" on a census record. I can't think of any other possible reason why the names are completely different.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I was looking at a lad who might have an interesting connection to Bridget, clicked open the Census record & he's a 'Census Enumerator.' I thought, "It's all fixed. She was there erasing herself."
LOL. Wendy, I just spit out my soda. Too funny!!
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
by InterestedReader » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:29 pm

Irish, is this the right Billeragh?

Just look at it, there's sod all there.
I think so, Wendy. Is that the Beara Pennisula?

Wow, that is the one? It looks so empty and barren I thought it must be the other one way inland on the Cork to Limerick road, and that's a poxy small place.

Castletown is a fair old distance from Billeragh, which has me a bit worried about Kate Moriarity. Her married name is less common but her birth-name is ubiquitous. If Eugene Sullivan is born in Billeragh, and found again in Billeragh in 1901, can it be established he moves to Castletownkenneigh to father Kate in 1886? Castletown is a fair old distance from either of the Billeraghs.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:hi Wendy:

I posted this back in November under "Bridget's Will" regarding the beneficiaries: (Note: The Irish census can be found at the National Archives of Ireland website).
by irishlass78 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:38 pm

In the Lizzie Borden Quarterly, Vol. 3, #2, April 1996, genealogist Richard O'Dwyer identified Bridget's 11 siblings and their spouses. According to O'Dwyer, Bridget's brother, Eugene Sullivan, married Margaret O'Sullivan, daughter of Daniel O'Sullivan & Ellen O'Sullivan.

In the 1901 Irish census for Billeragh, Cork, Eugene, age 45, is a widower living with his in-laws, Daniel and Ellen Sullivan, and four children: Mary, age 16; Catherine, age 14; Patrick, age 14; and Margaret, age 11. In the 1911 census, neither Catherine or Margaret are in the household.

In Bridget's will, she makes a bequest to three nieces:

1. Kate Moriarity. Kate Sullivan, age 22, born in Castletown, Cork, married John Moriarity in Butte in 1911. She died in 1960 in Silver Bow, Butte. Birth date: Aug. 9, 1886. Occupation: Domestic. Parents: Eugene Sullivan & Margaret Sullivan. Informant(s): John & Ed Moriarity. According to the 1930 U.S. census, she immigrated in 1905.

2. Mary Sullivan. This is the niece who resided with Bridget at the time of her death. Mary Sullivan died in April 1951 at Silver Bow, Butte, residence 112 E. Woolman St. Her father was Jerry Sullivan, no mother's name given, husband: Timothy. She was probably Bridget's niece via marriage.

3. Margaret “Margery” Sullivan, b. Aug. 7, 1889, Cork, Ireland married 1) George McNally, date unknown, by whom she had two children: George Anthony McNally, b. Silver Bow, Montana in 1907, and Margaret McNally, b. 1908, Silver Bow, Montana.
She then married 2) Kenneth McLeod on Sept. 15, 1925 at Silver Bow, Butte Montana. She died in 1966 in Silver Bow, Butte. Occupation: Maid. Parents: Eugene Sullivan & Margaret Sullivan. Informant: George McNally. According to the 1930 census, she immigrated in 1907.

So Kate Moriarity and Margaret McLeod could very possibly be the daughters of Bridget's brother, Eugene.

She also referenced a nephew, Denis Sullivan, in her will. I haven't been able to identify him, but a Denis Sullivan did reside at 109 E. Woolman St. (Bridget resided at 112 E. Woolman St.).

I cross-referenced Sullivan families living in Billeragh, Cork in the 1911 Irish census according to O'Dwyer's findings. It appears that most of Bridget's siblings and their children still resided in Billeragh and Kilmichael parishes at that time.
There's also a Julia O'Donnell mentioned as a beneficiary. I believe this is John M.'s niece, daughter of his brother, Jeremiah Sullivan. Here's her death certificate:
And Julia lives at 611 Alder Street.
Mary Sullivan is at 112 East Woolman Street.
Denis Sullivan at 109.

This evidence connects the Bridget Sullivan death-certificate to the Alder Street Bridget.

Mary...who dies in Silver Butte in 1951, is there no age-match with Eugene's Mary born in 1885?
Have you checked if she could be Bridget's own daughter? Living together at the end suggests blood-kin.

There's a Billeragh race of Sullivans, a Bridget comes to the States, her brother Eugene's daughters later come to the States. Kate in 1905, Margery in 1907. That seems to match a Bridget 'settling' in 1905. O'Dwyer provides a genealogical template for a Bridget. The woman living on 701 Alder Street is a likely fit... It seems to work.

And none of it proves she was the Borden Bridget.

Sullivans, Sullivans, Sullivans. You've never seen such a biblical horde of one name in one spot. Or two. Silver Bow and Butte. It would be astonishing if she didn't have a relative there.

You're now convinced it's not her aren't you, Irish?
Last edited by InterestedReader on Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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